BPAS PODCAST: 28th Jun '21 Episode 41: One Board Seat vs 3,000

[deyres42]

Look forward to seeing which of the prominent dissenters have had the minerals to out their names forward for election.

[basilrobbie]

Just an outside perspective, as it were.

 

It seems to me that you have two main groups.  One has access to the board room, and all the legal and constitutional benefits that go with being a Foundation or Trust. The other has popular support - considerably more of it. The obvious ideal here is a merger of some kind.

 

How you do it is your business. All I would say is this :

 

1) whatever model you come up with has to be able to evolve to suit changing circumstances

 

2) a model that has a democratic mandate always has more legitimacy than one that doesn't, so I feel you have to make democracy work for you

 

3) The Trust also has access to all sorts of national networks that can be very useful to you

 

4) the Fan Led Review may well change the landscape considerably around supporter representation, funding of the FSA and its ability to support training and development of fans groups

 

5) but even an optimum model still needs people with skills, drive and political nous to make it work. So all the ideas around skills audits, selectively co-opting Members and volunteering can be immensely powerful if you have clear ideas about what you want to do with them, and how you want to organise them

 

I thought the chap from Exeter said one important thing that is easy to overlook, which is that there aren't short cuts when it comes to engagement. You either do it properly, or you don't do it at all.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[League one forever]

2 hours ago, basilrobbie said:

Just an outside perspective, as it were.

 

It seems to me that you have two main groups.  One has access to the board room, and all the legal and constitutional benefits that go with being a Foundation or Trust. The other has popular support - considerably more of it. The obvious ideal here is a merger of some kind.

 

How you do it is your business. All I would say is this :

 

1) whatever model you come up with has to be able to evolve to suit changing circumstances

 

2) a model that has a democratic mandate always has more legitimacy than one that doesn't, so I feel you have to make democracy work for you

 

3) The Trust also has access to all sorts of national networks that can be very useful to you

 

4) the Fan Led Review may well change the landscape considerably around supporter representation, funding of the FSA and its ability to support training and development of fans groups

 

5) but even an optimum model still needs people with skills, drive and political nous to make it work. So all the ideas around skills audits, selectively co-opting Members and volunteering can be immensely powerful if you have clear ideas about what you want to do with them, and how you want to organise them

 

I thought the chap from Exeter said one important thing that is easy to overlook, which is that there aren't short cuts when it comes to engagement. You either do it properly, or you don't do it at all.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post. 
 

The difficulty we have is the chasm in mentality between the two groups. Our trust wants to support our abhorrent owner and his brother. Our supporters groups doesn’t. 

 

For their to be merger or negotiation  as you put it, there has to be chunking up of the ultimate goal, and then work backwards. However the two groups are diametrically opposed to the ultimate goal and therefore merging however rational is fanciful for us as things stand. 
 

Our supporters group now wants to follow your suggestion and try to affect change from within, but is in  IMO massively underestimating the difference in mentality, and I fear internal bickering at a time when we need something to get behind.

 

 

[Guest Philliggi]

Not posted on here for a long long time but have been listening to the podcasts at 7 am religiously for a long time. 

 

Fully back Matt, and what the PTB lads are trying to do. It is a long road ahead,but for me they are heading in the right direction. 

 

I dont see it as merging PTB and the trust. I see it as a coup of sorts. PTB have the fans in numbers. They are doing everything most of us would ask of them. What they don't have is the power. They don't have a voice with the EFL, with the club, the ability to accept funding, the 3%, and probably a whole host of other stuff the trust do. 

 

Thats what PTB need. Its not about working with the current foundation, its about taking control of it, to gain access to the boardroom, the 3%, the facilities to garner interest in an emergency fund. 

 

For me the way things are going its inevitable they will gain that control they need, and ultimately find themselves in that position where they can legitimately approach the club with a voice with power,but PTB supporters need to get behind this movement now while the AGM is happening.

 

450 sign ups may not be significant in the grand scheme of things, but it would still be enough to impact the AGM, which at this stage is all we require. 

 

Crack on lads your doing a great job

[singe]

16 hours ago, League one forever said:

 

PTB have - in no particular order. 
 

Galvanised the fan base by creating a true independent supporters group. 
 

Had excellent lines of communication with the fans, and constantly welcomed input and new ideas. 
 

Put out consistently professional and balanced statements. 
 

Organised surveys to actually ask the fans what they want, and what is stopping us from coming. To try and inform the club of the depth of ill will in the fanbase. 
 

Held various meetings with the incumbent chief executive to try and affect change, before realising it gets them nowhere. 
 

Tried to ask the owner to meet on multiple occasions. 
 

Set up a petition which 3000 people signed and sent to the club to show the measure of dissatisfaction. 
 

Spoke to Angela Rayner MP for Oldham to raise awareness of our plight. I believe another meeting with other MP for Oldham is being set up. 
 

Plans to boycott at home games, to build financial pressure on the owner. 
 

So- what have they achieved? 
 

Well, I’d say a hell of a lot actually. And for the time years they give me something to get behind. Maybe they’ll be ultimately unsuccessful in forcing the owners hand. But it’s inspiring to see people try. 
 

Where I would agree with you, and because of the above- Is advocating getting involved in the trust. They’re doing just fine without it. 

Here is the OASF update.

To me, they mutually complement each each other and a pinzer movement is what is needed with a neutral Contingency Fund in place no mattter who owns us.

OASF board meeting highlights.

Tracy Wright9 July 2021Leave a comment

As you can imagine, we had lots to discuss at last nights board meeting. This weeks Club matters agenda item took up an un-precedent amount of time. So here is a quick summary and in no particular order of relevance.

• Asset of Community value. Step 1 in our strategy – Renewal target date 07.03.22 & on target. Draft was submitted to OMBC on 02.06.21 for feedback and followed up on 28.06.21. Second email included Councillor Abdul Jabbar. If no negative feedback received back, then we will formally submit by 02.08.21. Little Wembley is included in our renewal submission.
• Volunteers. Step 3 in our strategy. Amongst recent volunteers, we have 2 HR/recruitment experienced people called Darren and Jason. They have now linked up and have some ideas on organising the remaining volunteers. Email from the new HR guru’s to be issued soon.  Thanks Darren and Jason.
• Website –  Step 11 in our strategy to be able to take pledges/donations direct. On target for end of August launch. Overview next week of progress from web design team. Launch date will be confirmed once FCA have approved new site is legal & compliant to take money donations (pledges).
• 1895 Trustees/Guardians of the contingency fund. Feedback now in from FSA. Ideally, we would like 5/6 people a former player(s), legal person with trustee knowledge, 2 OASF directors, 1 PTB person if they wish to be included. 3 signatories on the bank account. 2 minimum to make withdrawals. TBA on more details
• Club rep. Monthly key marker questions checker – NEW.  Snapshot of Rep’s monthly review of the “health” of our Club. Red, Amber, green traffic light system against each question. To be published on website in the next few days. Club Rep updates will continue.
• Fan Led Review radio interview – TBA on date. We have been approached with other panelist to give an overview of our involvement with the Government Fan Led review.
• AGM – update. EMG to meet next week. Closing date for candidate nomination forms is 15.07.21. Possible hustings W/C 19.07.21. Correction on members valid to vote. True number is 460 and Not 461. We had a duplication that was not picked up. EMG will be advised of the correction.

Club Matters. 

Yesterday, we said thank you to Paul Murray and Dr Robert Beardsell for their dedicated and loyal service to our Club. We then discussed two areas of concern that needed more of our agenda time.

Embargo – RED Status.

We note that the Club never revealed the extent of the EFL loan. Transparency and honesty are two of the fan expectations. We are disappointed the Club has not made clear the conditions on similar lines as Scunthorpe United has. https://www.scunthorpe-united.co.uk/news/2021/july/club-statement/

Nor the possible impact on the calibre of new, quality players Keith Curle can source.

We have concerns with regards to the owners 3-5 year plan and what now appears to be a shrinking budget. Is this budget sustainable and could it support a push to the top of the table? or will it be enough to keep us in league two? We have more questions than answers.

Now more than ever, we need to know what the owners revised plans are for success, post Covid and we need a substantive response.

Club Accounts for 2019/20 year – Step 15 in the strategy. Financials ensure full review of Club accounts and sound financial management. – RED Status.

Philippa gave a summary. We discussed that the Club have failed again, to comply with the legal requirements we have as shareholders and renege on assurances and promises made 12 months earlier. A formal letter of complaint will be submitted to the Club. This will be an open letter. Philippa has kindly offered to do this as one of her last tasks as and OASF director. Thank you Philippa

Proposal to sever ties with the Club – Amber status.

As the hits seem to keep on coming, we discussed whether this is still worth time and resources to try and hold the Club to account for such little reward. We seem to be more reactive to Club news with fans demanding immediate answers to justifiable questions. 

Based on our recent experiences, a proposal was made whether our time would be better spent on non-club stuff. This was a very difficult vote that was undertaken. The decision was made that we must gather as much up to date intelligence on the financial health and running of the Club. These are what the FSA key marker questions are and as mentioned above. That if we cut the cord, we are doing this at critical time when intelligence is key. However, it was diarised that this should be reviewed by the new board after the AGM

Thank you

Team OASF

[TheBigDog]

42 minutes ago, singe said:

Club rep. Monthly key marker questions checker – NEW.  Snapshot of Rep’s monthly review of the “health” of our Club. Red, Amber, green traffic light system against each question. To be published on website in the next few days. Club Rep updates will continue.

 

I presume that this ‘Health Review’ will include the three areas of concern listed in Club Matters?

* Embargo

* Club Accounts

* Proposal to sever ties with club

 

A good summary that illustrates how OASF is (slowly, slowly) getting it’s act together  - time will tell if this improvement continues but definitely a positive step.

[philliggi]

Must admit that update is far more in line with where PTB want the trust to be, as opposed to the early June update. 

 

I mentioned a coup because in the past the trust has seemed unwilling to open its arms to the trust and the wider fanbase, but obviously a .utual understanding would be the preferred option

[wiseowl]

19 hours ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

Lead isn’t just the metal 

 

and is literacy when it comes to a Football Trust really that important?

 

We aren’t asking them to write a best selling novel thought Jules Verne is thought to have been dyslexic 

 

I’ve no time for the group and even less after they ignored the petition and back that awful statement the other week but that’s a really low blow in my opinion 

Wasn't meant as a low blow Chaddy - just an illustration of OASF's lack of professionalism from the off - and yes I think that really matters. In the present circumstances, there is a long and difficult tactical battle ahead - the fans' group that fights that battle need to be as professional and astute as possible in my opinion.

[Chaddyexile84]

1 minute ago, wiseowl said:

Wasn't meant as a low blow Chaddy - just an illustration of OASF's lack of professionalism from the off - and yes I think that really matters. In the present circumstances, there is a long and difficult tactical battle ahead - the fans' group that fights that battle need to be as professional and astute as possible in my opinion.

Fair enough but after an entertaining (if face palming) read of the #oafc on Twitter from last night they will beat the club for professional even if they send letters in crayon on toilet paper with stick man (person) drawings on them 

 

It really is a shambles 

[Andy b]

On 7/9/2021 at 1:04 PM, wiseowl said:

Not really kept up to speed with all this and I will have a listen in due course. Seriously, though, if I am reading this right, how can anybody expect fans to "get behind" the Trust? (in whatever guise it has re-invented itself). They have exhibited years of incompetence. Some well-meaning people, no doubt, but they prattle on about peripheral issues and constantly get all excited about some of their board's "impressive cv's" (guess what - a cv is basically a sales document for a person - invariably full of hyped up shite). Meanwhile, they have achieved precisely NOTHING. No way can I back them (and I`m not alone) - ditch the Trust for me and unite behind PTB who, prima facie, appear to have at least been "in tune" with the majority of fans - and possess something resembling a spine.

As ever you entirely miss the point. The trust is only as effective as the people on it. If you don’t believe in the concept of the trust, then don’t spend so much energy moaning about it. If you believe it could have a purpose then get involved and make it better. You won’t though. 
 

You are a classic keyboard warrior and typical Oldham fan to be honest. All mouth 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andy b]

On 7/9/2021 at 3:33 PM, whittles left foot said:

You say PTB have done so much more in 12 mths than The Trust in 16 yrs, well if listening to employees, ex employees, players, etc floats your boat then crack on, they have.

But what have the actually achieved? Is the club taking more notice of them than The Trust? Has the club altered any of it's modus operandi as a result of PTB actions?

 

You quote`let's change the trust from the inside is a massive sideshow'-it's the very thing PTB now want to do now. So much that they now realise the only way forward is a seat at the table and so they want you all to vote at the AGM.

For them or their proxies and then what?

 

They’ve gained the trust and respect of the fan base in a short space of time. They are in a

strong position to be an effective body which represents fans going forward. The present trust is a long way from that. 
 

what exactly did you expect PtB to have been able to achieve in 18 months? 

[singe]

4 minutes ago, Andy b said:

They’ve gained the trust and respect of the fan base in a short space of time. They are in a

strong position to be an effective body which represents fans going forward. The present trust is a long way from that. 
 

what exactly did you expect PtB to have been able to achieve in 18 months? 

That's to the point of my issue. Obviously there is only so much PTB can do, and I have said brefore no reflection or criticism of them, but the 3,000 should be doing something and apathy is the bigger issue. But there has been huge criticism of OASF. Plenty is valid (like what has been achieved in 20 years), but it's unfair to expect PTB to have been able to achieve limited amounts in 18 months but expect OASF to achieve so much more in the same timescale, even less really since the last election. Especially when they have been literally begging for help. I'm not saying you've said that.

Working together is the only way.

[oafc1955]

What it needs I think is a balance between the two. I like the way PTB have brought the key issues to the fore and managed to get a large proportion of the fanbase on board in a relatively short space of time but the legalities, the ACV, the meetings with the EFL etc. etc. are still an important part of the overall process.

I want these ’s out no doubt but to be effective it has to be done in the right way!

 

[League one forever]

1 hour ago, singe said:

That's to the point of my issue. Obviously there is only so much PTB can do, and I have said brefore no reflection or criticism of them, but the 3,000 should be doing something and apathy is the bigger issue. But there has been huge criticism of OASF. Plenty is valid (like what has been achieved in 20 years), but it's unfair to expect PTB to have been able to achieve limited amounts in 18 months but expect OASF to achieve so much more in the same timescale, even less really since the last election. Especially when they have been literally begging for help. I'm not saying you've said that.

Working together is the only way.

When Elaine spoke on the pod. She sounded broken by the mentality and local parish politics of the trust. 
 

For people to work together there needs to be an ULTIMATE common goal. We still don’t have that, and reading the minutes from the trust meeting- there is STILL reticent to ‘cut the cord’ 

 

So- I agree it would be would be better to unite- but without common interest- we are literally pissing in the wind. The trust will only be effective when it truly reflects the fanbase. 
 

And the fanbase have spoken IMO. 
 

Thry want to cut the cord 

[Andy b]

I approached PtB about 15 months ago and suggested that a key part of their focus should be on the trust. Not taking over the trust but holding that body to account and getting them to be better. That appears to be happening now.

 

The trust can be an important vehicle for fan influence (ranging from potential ownership through to day to day decision making within the club) given its remit, legal status and starting position. PtB cannot be that. 

 

They do have complementary agendas though and joint working is necessary. PtB should certainly be turning the screw on the trust and am glad to see that happening. It is through the trust that one day we could have a club that we have a major control in. That has to be the collective overall goal (which goes way beyond Abdallah out).
 

To that end the trust is worthy of our attention. You may not like what it is does but it offers us hope for a future where fans have some real control.
 

Our starting position is a decent one in achieving this in that we have a legally incorporated trust with a shareholding. The issue is not that that shareholding is pointless as some would say but rather that the shareholding has never been used effectively nor has there ever been any effort to build on it to increase control and influence. That’s what now needs to happen. 

[singe]

3 hours ago, Andy b said:

I approached PtB about 15 months ago and suggested that a key part of their focus should be on the trust. Not taking over the trust but holding that body to account and getting them to be better. That appears to be happening now.

 

The trust can be an important vehicle for fan influence (ranging from potential ownership through to day to day decision making within the club) given its remit, legal status and starting position. PtB cannot be that. 

 

They do have complementary agendas though and joint working is necessary. PtB should certainly be turning the screw on the trust and am glad to see that happening. It is through the trust that one day we could have a club that we have a major control in. That has to be the collective overall goal (which goes way beyond Abdallah out).
 

To that end the trust is worthy of our attention. You may not like what it is does but it offers us hope for a future where fans have some real control.
 

Our starting position is a decent one in achieving this in that we have a legally incorporated trust with a shareholding. The issue is not that that shareholding is pointless as some would say but rather that the shareholding has never been used effectively nor has there ever been any effort to build on it to increase control and influence. That’s what now needs to happen. 

I can't imagine they have much issue be held to account, and should be, but the criticisms have gone way beyond that. How old they are, not advertising for posts, advertising too much for posts etc. 

It's long overdue, precious Reps on the Board have done a lot of damage but the more fans join the more representative it becomes. 

 

[singe]

10 hours ago, League one forever said:

When Elaine spoke on the pod. She sounded broken by the mentality and local parish politics of the trust. 
 

For people to work together there needs to be an ULTIMATE common goal. We still don’t have that, and reading the minutes from the trust meeting- there is STILL reticent to ‘cut the cord’ 

 

So- I agree it would be would be better to unite- but without common interest- we are literally pissing in the wind. The trust will only be effective when it truly reflects the fanbase. 
 

And the fanbase have spoken IMO. 
 

Thry want to cut the cord 

Not sure how you can say they spoke to cut the cord. Sell up yes, but everyone wants that, it's a case of who to. 

But lose the 3% that has no mandate IMHO. 

That would need much more discussion, vast majority of people are not aware of the consequences, that would be a desperate knee jerk reaction

[League one forever]

7 minutes ago, singe said:

Not sure how you can say they spoke to cut the cord. Sell up yes, but everyone wants that, it's a case of who to. 

But lose the 3% that has no mandate IMHO. 

That would need much more discussion, vast majority of people are not aware of the consequences, that would be a desperate knee jerk reaction

Agreed. 
 

I don’t want rid of the 3% at all, the seat can go though- because it acheives nothing. 

[Magic Mikey]

13 hours ago, Andy b said:

As ever you entirely miss the point. The trust is only as effective as the people on it. If you don’t believe in the concept of the trust, then don’t spend so much energy moaning about it. If you believe it could have a purpose then get involved and make it better. You won’t though. 
 

You are a classic keyboard warrior and typical Oldham fan to be honest. All mouth 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Be careful with generalisations. I hate everyone who makes generalisations (and Scousers). 

[singe]

57 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Agreed. 
 

I don’t want rid of the 3% at all, the seat can go though- because it acheives nothing. 

There was a motion to not attend meetings, but keep going in seeing and asking to see the information. That seems the idela solution IMHO, but still needs a Director appointed and in place as I understnad it.

[TheBigDog]

 

14 hours ago, Andy b said:

As ever you entirely miss the point. The trust is only as effective as the people on it. If you don’t believe in the concept of the trust, then don’t spend so much energy moaning about it. If you believe it could have a purpose then get involved and make it better. You won’t though. 
 

You are a classic keyboard warrior and typical Oldham fan to be honest. All mouth 

 

 

@Andy b your first paragraph is well thought through and makes a valid point.

 

You then go and resort to a huge generalisation about the ‘typical Oldham fan’... and somewhat ironically you effectively live up to your ‘keyboard warrior’ epithet...

[Andy b]

9 hours ago, TheBigDog said:

 

 

 

@Andy b your first paragraph is well thought through and makes a valid point.

 

You then go and resort to a huge generalisation about the ‘typical Oldham fan’... and somewhat ironically you effectively live up to your ‘keyboard warrior’ epithet...

Thanks for your feedback but there is a reason fans of clubs like Exeter get their shit together and ours don’t 

[mcfluff1985]

1 hour ago, Andy b said:

Thanks for your feedback but there is a reason fans of clubs like Exeter get their shit together and ours don’t 

Is it because they've not got a bunch of pussies running their trust?

[League one forever]

18 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

Is it because they've not got a bunch of pussies running their trust?

Christ.

[singe]

6 hours ago, mcfluff1985 said:

Is it because they've not got a bunch of pussies running their trust?

Funny that, being as you haven't got the balls to do any of the hard work yourself.