BPAS PODCAST SEASON 2: 10th Jan '22 Episode 66: Fan Action

[BPAS]

One man and a megaphone, a Facebook Action Group and the results of the OASF survey. Fan's are taking the initiative.

 

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You can find out more about Push The Boundary by visiting them at www.pushtheboundary.co.uk and following on Twitter @PTB_OAFC. Find out more about OASF at www.oldhamathleticsupportersfoundation.com

 

Title music is by Manchester DJ and producer Starion find out more at www.redlaserrecords.bandcamp.com

 

 

[Dave_Og]

I just burst out laughing on hearing about the club secretary being in the away end.  Couldn't make it up!

[Dave_Og]

It's now 21 years since I was involved in SAFE -Secure Athletic's Future Existence.  There is still a lurking web presence (below) for what we were trying to do when the group was formed, largely in response to the sale of the ground to the council which was an act of desperation to solve serious financial problems.  Obviously, al that did was kick lthe can down the road.

 

Every single thing that Phil (who I don't know) said on the podcast reflected our experiences back then.  Personal abuse, expectation that others would sort things out, lack of willingness to actually get involved, accusations re motivation.  It seems that some things never change.  I wonder if they ever will.

 

SAFE - Secure Athletics Future Existance (webservicesbc.com) (I'm still annoyed that apparently we couldn't spell 'existence'...

 

 

[unsworth blue]

20 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

It's now 21 years since I was involved in SAFE -Secure Athletic's Future Existence.  There is still a lurking web presence (below) for what we were trying to do when the group was formed, largely in response to the sale of the ground to the council which was an act of desperation to solve serious financial problems.  Obviously, al that did was kick the can down the road.

 

Every single thing that Phil (who I don't know) said on the podcast reflected our experiences back then.  Personal abuse, expectation that others would sort things out, lack of willingness to actually get involved, accusations re motivation.  It seems that some things never change.  I wonder if they ever will.

 

SAFE - Secure Athletics Future Existance (webservicesbc.com) (I'm still annoyed that apparently we couldn't spell 'existence'...

 

 

 

I haven't listened to Podcast yet Dave but already am feeling extremely low about our club's future. Still feel that there is more than an element of our support base that actually thinks the fans currently involved in trying to get Abdallah to sell/ find alternative investment are somehow to blame for the club's ills and Abdallah and co. are more wronged than wrongdoers.  

 

The blame culture at the club must change and if the supporters of Oldham Athletic or the town of Oldham does indeed want a professional football club still capable of performing in the EFL, then some shared ownership of issues needs to prevail to stop OAFC just becoming another statistic of Northern town football league clubs who fell out of the league.      

[Dave_Og]

2 minutes ago, unsworth blue said:

 

I haven't listened to Podcast yet Dave but already am feeling extremely low about our club's future. Still feel that there is more than an element of our support base that actually thinks the fans currently involved in trying to get Abdallah to sell/ find alternative investment are somehow to blame for the club's ills and Abdallah and co. are more wronged than wrongdoers.  

 

The blame culture at the club must change and if the supporters of Oldham Athletic or the town of Oldham does indeed want a professional football club still capable of performing in the EFL, then some shared ownership of issues needs to prevail to stop OAFC just becoming another statistic of Northern town football league clubs who fell out of the league.      

I share those views 100%.  I just don't know what it will take to shake people into action before it's too late, if it isn't already.

[Uppermill Latics]

The Robbie Savage documentary on BBC iplayer about Macclesfield is a frightening and informative glimpse of what's required to rescue a failed/failing football club especially an insight into the finances required - essential viewing.

[BP1960]

57 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

I share those views 100%.  I just don't know what it will take to shake people into action before it's too late, if it isn't already.

 

A big personality who's often on TV could help.

I know Robbie Savage has put some money in at Macclesfield,  but because he's often in the limelight it's greatly helped their cause.

Latics fan Brian Cox may be out of reach, but there must be a few sports personalities and TV stars who could be approached.

My point is it's more about advertising the good work of those trying to save the club than anything else at the moment.

 

[basilrobbie]

Another very interesting listen. You are doing a good job of keeping it fresh and relevant every week.

 

I was interested in that section about the perils of getting active and then being "judged" on social media. This is pretty universal, in my experience ; as Matt says, there are doers and talkers (I would add thinkers) and not as many people as you might expect are two or all three of these. I like to think our Trust has a very strong reputation ; but we still get sniped at by some elements in our support for every initiative we take. So for example, we run a survey about ticket prices and get stick because (allegedly)  too many older people responded and skewed the result. We try to play a full role in the FSA, and get accused of being too busy "saving football" to do the day job. I wear it as a badge of honour, and I think you should try to do the same.  

 

I haven't seen the Survey, but it's a good way of gauging opinion and you do seem to be getting to a point where you can reach critical mass. Getting good quality information out to fans is going to be more important than ever in the next few months, especially if the club insists on leaving a vacuum there. I'd advise you to check with your local paper to see whether they are going to cover the court case - if they don't, it's worth considering trying to do it yourself. It was one of the most powerful things we ever did. We can offer some info. on how we went about it, if you get to the point where it is an option.

 

On creating and selling your own merchandise, that was a hugely successful area for us, but we did manage it centrally, from memory. Again, we can probably share info. on how we did it if it is useful (not my area at all). 

 

I must say that I am really torn about whether relegation is a blessing in disguise or not - if it comes to that. And that is not just a question of ownership, it is also about what the attitude of the NL will be to the way your club is being (mis)managed. They are not the same as the EFL (good and bad). Hopefully you will never have to find out. And hopefully you won't find yourself playing the long game in the way we had to. I daresay it feels long enough already.

[Dave_Og]

39 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

Another very interesting listen. You are doing a good job of keeping it fresh and relevant every week.

 

I was interested in that section about the perils of getting active and then being "judged" on social media. This is pretty universal, in my experience ; as Matt says, there are doers and talkers (I would add thinkers) and not as many people as you might expect are two or all three of these. I like to think our Trust has a very strong reputation ; but we still get sniped at by some elements in our support for every initiative we take. So for example, we run a survey about ticket prices and get stick because (allegedly)  too many older people responded and skewed the result. We try to play a full role in the FSA, and get accused of being too busy "saving football" to do the day job. I wear it as a badge of honour, and I think you should try to do the same.  

 

I haven't seen the Survey, but it's a good way of gauging opinion and you do seem to be getting to a point where you can reach critical mass. Getting good quality information out to fans is going to be more important than ever in the next few months, especially if the club insists on leaving a vacuum there. I'd advise you to check with your local paper to see whether they are going to cover the court case - if they don't, it's worth considering trying to do it yourself. It was one of the most powerful things we ever did. We can offer some info. on how we went about it, if you get to the point where it is an option.

 

On creating and selling your own merchandise, that was a hugely successful area for us, but we did manage it centrally, from memory. Again, we can probably share info. on how we did it if it is useful (not my area at all). 

 

I must say that I am really torn about whether relegation is a blessing in disguise or not - if it comes to that. And that is not just a question of ownership, it is also about what the attitude of the NL will be to the way your club is being (mis)managed. They are not the same as the EFL (good and bad). Hopefully you will never have to find out. And hopefully you won't find yourself playing the long game in the way we had to. I daresay it feels long enough already.

 

It's not, not in a million years.  It's definitely a long game.  My post above re SAFE, above, goes back 21 years and that was a successor organisation to Stop The Rot which was maybe three years or so earlier.  I guess we could have a silver anniversary party next year...   The really depressing thing is that just about everything on the minutes from that SAFE meeting is still being talked about now.

[JoeP]

Relegation really would not be a blessing in disguise, just like the last three weren't.  We're in a worse state than we were after the last three relegations too.

 

Here's a depressing thought - this might be the last season we ever play league football. 

 

There is not one indication - quite the opposite in fact - that dropping out of the league will galvanise the club.

 

Happy New Year, everyone!

[basilrobbie]

Joe, the ONLY sense in which I think it might be a blessing would be if it hastened their departure. I certainly don't under-estimate how debilitating a prolonged stay outside the League would be (see Wrexham, Barnet, York etc).

[JoeP]

10 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

Joe, the ONLY sense in which I think it might be a blessing would be if it hastened their departure. I certainly don't under-estimate how debilitating a prolonged stay outside the League would be (see Wrexham, Barnet, York etc).

 

I'd rather have them for another year and stay in the league, to be honest.  The road back becomes too long if we go down..

[deyres42]

So what happened with the scarves then?

[unsworth blue]

15 hours ago, JoeP said:

 

I'd rather have them for another year and stay in the league, to be honest.  The road back becomes too long if we go down..

 

I know where you are coming from Joe but can't wish them stay a minute longer let alone another year. 

 

For me, they have eroded what good was left of our club and their stewardship has been accompanied by the most appalling and depressing Stasi-like propaganda that has alienated many thoroughly decent people, many for good. Can't wait for them to go      

[Dave_Og]

2 minutes ago, unsworth blue said:

 

I know where you are coming from Joe but can't wish them stay a minute longer let alone another year. 

 

For me, they have eroded what good was left of our club and their stewardship has been accompanied by the most appalling and depressing Stasi-like propaganda that has alienated many thoroughly decent people, many for good. Can't wait for them to go      

 

There is a body of thought that thinks relegation may make their departure more likely but there's no evidence to suggest that their stubbornness is likely to dissipate when the club is worth even less than it is now.  If (when?) we get relegated I really struggle to see a route back

[JoeP]

22 minutes ago, unsworth blue said:

 

I know where you are coming from Joe but can't wish them stay a minute longer let alone another year. 

 

For me, they have eroded what good was left of our club and their stewardship has been accompanied by the most appalling and depressing Stasi-like propaganda that has alienated many thoroughly decent people, many for good. Can't wait for them to go      

 

I don't want them here a minute longer either, but I also want the club to be in the best position to rebuild.

 

There seems to be this assumption that we'll go down, the Lemsegams will leave and we'll be back on the march up the leagues again.  I remember people (not me, FWIW) thought the same when Corney left and look how that turned out.  Barring a 1-in-50-year promotion miracle, we'll be (at best) treading water for a few years whatever division we're in.  I'd rather do that in professional football, even if it means the Lemsegams stay around a bit longer.  Survival in this division is much easier than getting promotion from the National League.  

[League one forever]

18 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

There is a body of thought that thinks relegation may make their departure more likely but there's no evidence to suggest that their stubbornness is likely to dissipate when the club is worth even less than it is now.  If (when?) we get relegated I really struggle to see a route back

You keep asking for evidence of something that hasn’t happened?? 
 

We can only speculate. And it’s doesn’t take much to see that AL isn’t prepared to put anymore money in than he absolutely has to- and that is with the help of EFL loans (that he currently can’t or won’t payback) and the golden share.
 

You, or anybody else can never offer where that money will be covered. Maybe it won’t- and ALMO will just cut their cloth accordingly. If they do, we are certain for another relegation IMO, because the budget will be laughable. 
 

Money makes the world go round. If/when we go down, and there is another inevitable drop off in season tickets, and we lose EFL money do you think he’ll keep putting money in- even to just put a team out???? 
 

I don’t. 
 

He’ll either sell, or more likely we’ll go into admin. 
 

Relegation isn’t the answer to all our problems, nor will it mean we quickly bounce back and wish people would stop making things up by claiming that I or others are saying it is. 
 

It just MAY be the only way AL will leave, and for a lot of fans him leaving has become far more important than the division we play in. 
 

 

[League one forever]

1 minute ago, JoeP said:

he Lemsegams will leave and we'll be back on the march up the leagues again

Literally no one has said that Joe. 
 

It’s about AL leaving not the utopia of non league- because that doesn’t exist. 
 

When we go down whoever owns it, has got a mountain to climb. 

[Dave_Og]

Just now, League one forever said:

You keep asking for evidence of something that hasn’t happened?? 
 

We can only speculate. And it’s doesn’t take much to see that AL isn’t prepared to put anymore money in than he absolutely has to- and that is with the help of EFL loans (that he currently can’t or won’t payback) and the golden share.
 

You, or anybody else can never offer where that money will be covered. Maybe it won’t- and ALMO will just cut their cloth accordingly. If they do, we are certain for another relegation IMO, because the budget will be laughable. 
 

Money makes the world go round. If/when we go down, and there is another inevitable drop off in season tickets, and we lose EFL money do you think he’ll keep putting money in- even to just put a team out???? 
 

I don’t. 
 

He’ll either sell, or more likely we’ll go into admin. 
 

Relegation isn’t the answer to all our problems, nor will it mean we quickly bounce back and wish people would stop making things up by claiming that I or others are saying it is. 
 

It just MAY be the only way AL will leave, and for a lot of fans him leaving has become far more important than the division we play in. 
 

 

I'm not asking for evidence - just saying that there isn't any.  We agree; we want him gone.  I think admin for us is almost exactly the same as liquidation unless there is a buyer lined up right then.  No administrator could possibly keep this club going while hunting around for a buyer who hasn't already made themselves known.

 

Equally I'm not saying anyone actively wants relegation.  I get your point even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

[League one forever]

4 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

I'm not asking for evidence - just saying that there isn't any.  We agree; we want him gone.  I think admin for us is almost exactly the same as liquidation unless there is a buyer lined up right then.  No administrator could possibly keep this club going while hunting around for a buyer who hasn't already made themselves known.

 

Equally I'm not saying anyone actively wants relegation.  I get your point even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

 

Admin is a massive worry for the reasons you point out, but to be honest Dave- and I will be in the minority here. If the club folded but the ground was secure and we could start again quickly - I would take that.

 

If Bury teaches us anything it’s the loss of community that is the real killer, not missing playing X in X division. 
 

If you have the stadium, you have the community. If you have community the football can and will come again over a period of time. 

[Dave_Og]

Just now, League one forever said:

 

Admin is a massive worry for the reasons you point out, but to be honest Dave- and I will be in the minority here. If the club folded but the ground was secure and we could start again quickly - I would take that.

 

If Bury teaches us anything it’s the loss of community that is the real killer, not missing playing X in X division. 
 

If you have the stadium, you have the community. If you have community the football can and will come again over a period of time. 

Maybe.  I've asked numerous times though, in many different fora, who would be prepared to put the effort in to start a phoenix club and not a single person has ever said they would.  My experience with SAFE, the Trust's/Foundation's history and Phil's podcast story all play a similar tune.  There are a lot of people who want things to happen but very few who are prepared to do the hard yards themselves to make it happen

[League one forever]

Just now, Dave_Og said:

Maybe.  I've asked numerous times though, in many different fora, who would be prepared to put the effort in to start a phoenix club and not a single person has ever said they would.  My experience with SAFE, the Trust's/Foundation's history and Phil's podcast story all play a similar tune.  There are a lot of people who want things to happen but very few who are prepared to do the hard yards themselves to make it happen

 

Yeah, that’s fair. 

[unsworth blue]

36 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

I don't want them here a minute longer either, but I also want the club to be in the best position to rebuild.

 

There seems to be this assumption that we'll go down, the Lemsegams will leave and we'll be back on the march up the leagues again.  I remember people (not me, FWIW) thought the same when Corney left and look how that turned out.  Barring a 1-in-50-year promotion miracle, we'll be (at best) treading water for a few years whatever division we're in.  I'd rather do that in professional football, even if it means the Lemsegams stay around a bit longer.  Survival in this division is much easier than getting promotion from the National League.  

 

I can't see the Lemsagams going whether we stay up or go down Joe.  I can't stand what they have done to our club, completely destroyed what little was left that was good and now the culture around the place is so toxic. I make no assumptions on where the club will be either under them or others. I personally think that if it had not been for COVID resulting in 2020/21 being curtailed we would have gone down then, but all immaterial conjecture. 

 

I am more interested in the heart and soul of the club and its place in Oldham's and Lancashire's social history rather than whether we stay in the league or not or whether we will start moving forwards again on the pitch. To me off the pitch is much more important as this club has been around since 1895 and has been loved by many for at least some part of their lives since then. That's too important to me to be destroyed by the likes of the Lemsagams who treat our club and institution like it's a plaything and they can't be arsed playing with it anymore seemingly.        

 

Will happily return to BP once they have departed no matter what league we are in assuming we still have a club and will work alongside others to rebuild our club's tarnished reputation and happily consign the Lemsagams to history.    

 

[Steve_R]

22 hours ago, unsworth blue said:

 

I haven't listened to Podcast yet Dave but already am feeling extremely low about our club's future. Still feel that there is more than an element of our support base that actually thinks the fans currently involved in trying to get Abdallah to sell/ find alternative investment are somehow to blame for the club's ills and Abdallah and co. are more wronged than wrongdoers.  

 

The blame culture at the club must change and if the supporters of Oldham Athletic or the town of Oldham does indeed want a professional football club still capable of performing in the EFL, then some shared ownership of issues needs to prevail to stop OAFC just becoming another statistic of Northern town football league clubs who fell out of the league.      

I'm similar to you Phil, but for different reasons. As with all fans I really fear for the future. I support your Dan and the PTB lads in their quest to rid the club of of Abdallah's reign, but I just can't agree with boycotting as the way to do it. I fully respect yours and others opinion that it's the way to go, but for me I can't go down that road. For one, I refuse to let the clowns stop me doing something that I've always done, and secondly, I don't prescribe to the 'starve him of money' theory. I doubt he's putting any more money in now, hence the EFL loan, which results in the club being starved of money and the shite squad of players we have now. My money goes to keep the club going as far as I can see, not into Abdallah's pocket.

 

Like I've said though, I fully respect others right to do this. What I do object to is those (and there's a few on here) who claim I am backing Abdallah because I do what football fans do, support my team. Support the team, not the regime, seems to have died a death.

 

It hurts me when good fans like yourself, who  I've known for many a year, feel that pissed off with it all that they can no longer bring themselves to go.

 

The fanbase is totally divided, although most of us want the same thing.

 

[whittles left foot]

6 minutes ago, League one forever said:

 

Admin is a massive worry for the reasons you point out, but to be honest Dave- and I will be in the minority here. If the club folded but the ground was secure and we could start again quickly - I would take that.

 

If Bury teaches us anything it’s the loss of community that is the real killer, not missing playing X in X division. 
 

If you have the stadium, you have the community. If you have community the football can and will come again over a period of time. 

Despite his history and putting aside the dislike of Blitz the ground ownership is relatively stable. Has there ever been a threat to evict us from BP? If you buy the ground then all the expenses that go with it are yours to pay and there won't be much money around.

Plenty of clubs have managed to survive and thrive without having their own ground to play on Coventry being a great example

The absolute priority has to be get the Lemmys away from the club.