Guy Branston Pickle Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, basilrobbie said: Interesting thread this. I also thought what Matt had to say about the psychology surrounding the club was interesting, and he does have a point. Conversely, asking people who have endured decades of mediocrity or worse to be patient and supportive is a difficult "sell". My belief is that some of you are still consistently underestimating the rest of the sides in this Division and aren't yet able to fix your place within it. I said in August that this was a brute of a Division, forecast you would finish about 15th and thought I was being somewhat over-optimistic even with that. Thirteen games in I think the dogfight at the bottom is already such that I think you are one of a number of clubs for whom 20th will be a relative success. The League is already sorting itself out. The top five are all on course for 85 points or more ; the bottom third of the Division are all averaging a point a game or less. The gap will get much wider, I think, and unless you are going to have a decent run of form then I think you have to be in the top half of the mini-League you are currently in come May, and anything else will be a bonus. I think 46 points might just about be enough, but 48-50 would be a lot more comfortable. With all that in mind, I don't blame Unsworth if he is being both conservative and pragmatic. I know very little about him, and I don't watch you play, but one point that people often overlook is that he doesn't really represent a "new start" -and can't - until he can make material changes to the squad. One thing that does seem to unite you is that they (the squad) are not equipped for the job in terms of both technique and temperament ; if that is true, he probably feels he has to mask those deficiencies with caution and good organisation until he can can get better or more malleable players in. And again, that takes time, and doesn't make for pretty viewing while you are waiting. This is the key part for me. I started going to games in 96, I'm now 31 years old and I've seen us finish top half 5 times, top 6 twice. In that time I've seen over 30 managers and what feels like 1000s of players, and every season they get steadily worse. I used to try and be optimistic but tbh I'm finding it extremely difficult to justify giving up my Saturday afternoons to watch a bunch of players who either aren't good enough or look like they can't be arsed. It's all well and good asking for patience but I've been patient for 26 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said: This is the key part for me. I started going to games in 96, I'm now 31 years old and I've seen us finish top half 5 times, top 6 twice. In that time I've seen over 30 managers and what feels like 1000s of players, and every season they get steadily worse. I used to try and be optimistic but tbh I'm finding it extremely difficult to justify giving up my Saturday afternoons to watch a bunch of players who either aren't good enough or look like they can't be arsed. It's all well and good asking for patience but I've been patient for 26 years Not finished above 14th since 08, not much time for patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Branston Pickle Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Just now, LightDN123 said: Not finished above 14th since 08, not much time for patience. Jesus. So there's potentially people in their 20s who have never even seen us finish top half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Guy Branston Pickle said: Jesus. So there's potentially people in their 20s who have never even seen us finish top half Yep, I just about remember that season, extremely vague. The only decent season I remember is when we beat Swindon at home and LJ had us 5th in February. He shortly left and Holden took us to a 17th (ish) finish. Great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, LightDN123 said: Yep, I just about remember that season, extremely vague. The only decent season I remember is when we beat Swindon at home and LJ had us 5th in February. He shortly left and Holden took us to a 17th (ish) finish. Great stuff. We just about stayed up in the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Tic Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, basilrobbie said: Interesting thread this. I also thought what Matt had to say about the psychology surrounding the club was interesting, and he does have a point. Conversely, asking people who have endured decades of mediocrity or worse to be patient and supportive is a difficult "sell". My belief is that some of you are still consistently underestimating the rest of the sides in this Division and aren't yet able to fix your place within it. I said in August that this was a brute of a Division, forecast you would finish about 15th and thought I was being somewhat over-optimistic even with that. Thirteen games in I think the dogfight at the bottom is already such that I think you are one of a number of clubs for whom 20th will be a relative success. The League is already sorting itself out. The top five are all on course for 85 points or more ; the bottom third of the Division are all averaging a point a game or less. The gap will get much wider, I think, and unless you are going to have a decent run of form then I think you have to be in the top half of the mini-League you are currently in come May, and anything else will be a bonus. I think 46 points might just about be enough, but 48-50 would be a lot more comfortable. With all that in mind, I don't blame Unsworth if he is being both conservative and pragmatic. I know very little about him, and I don't watch you play, but one point that people often overlook is that he doesn't really represent a "new start" -and can't - until he can make material changes to the squad. One thing that does seem to unite you is that they (the squad) are not equipped for the job in terms of both technique and temperament ; if that is true, he probably feels he has to mask those deficiencies with caution and good organisation until he can can get better or more malleable players in. And again, that takes time, and doesn't make for pretty viewing while you are waiting. Spot on post I think he’s also masking his true feelings with diplomacy which he has to do. He has seen enough like we all have to know additions are needed. I can wait, it’s a process. As long as we aren’t languishing in the Wrigleys spearmint gum north league prior to their arrival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 I don't get the call for patience. It isn't difficult to win matches in this league. I'm done with long away trips for a while after witnessing that yesterday and Bromley the other week. He's got two weeks to get it sorted for the Yeovil match - as my man Yarddog73 said the Chester game counts for nowt (even Luamba should score against them) - and there needs to be a significant improvement there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 18 hours ago, yarddog73 said: We've 2 points from 12, question is are we seeing progress? Didn't go today What? I saw you with my own eyes at HT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, deyres42 said: Put some respect on my man Hallam's name. He would improve the side for sure but I've seen some very questionable performances from him as well this season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: What? I saw you with my own eyes at HT... Wasn't me Patrick..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Prediction… in about 3 months time we’ll be higher up the league, collecting more points and playing better football. Those calling for patience will be saying “I told you so” and those demanding instant improvement and expansive football will be saying “see, he’s listened to me finally and now it’s paying off”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, LightDN123 said: Yep, I just about remember that season, extremely vague. The only decent season I remember is when we beat Swindon at home and LJ had us 5th in February. He shortly left and Holden took us to a 17th (ish) finish. Great stuff. pedantry maybe, but LJ didnt leave he was sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, nzlatic said: Prediction… in about 3 months time we’ll be higher up the league, collecting more points and playing better football. Those calling for patience will be saying “I told you so” and those demanding instant improvement and expansive football will be saying “see, he’s listened to me finally and now it’s paying off”. we will also have new players so the burntheprayerroom lads will also be going 'see..' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, nzlatic said: Prediction… in about 3 months time we’ll be higher up the league, collecting more points and playing better football. That bar you're setting is about an inch off the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 I'm not answering to anyone in particular but my take is the backroom staff, ranging from video analysis, psychology, scouting, coaching and managing needs to be in place before a swathe of new players are brought in, if that is to be the case. Surely the best scenario is to try and raise the level of the existing and returning-from-injury players, assessing their capabilities and probabilities before recruiting and releasing anybody. The problem with the above scenario is the time factor over the patience of the fans. Football fans are so close to their respective clubs now, in terms of access to its goings on and in comparison to the past. I definitely believe that helps to foster the 'I want it now!' culture and the social media "experts". Unsworth does come across as pragmatic and he will know a great deal more regarding behind the scenes than we do. The cogs in the background appear to be in motion, let's hope the ones at the front catch on and begin to move in the right direction, eventually. The vitriol between fans doesn't sit comfortably with me. I don't agree with everybody but I respect their right to an opinion and a voice. We can't be at war with each other, we all want the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddogs Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 3 hours ago, yarddog73 said: Wasn't me Patrick..... It was me Paddy wrong Yarddogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 On 10/7/2022 at 11:12 AM, PeteG said: Think we might get to see what Maynard is like this weekend, heard hes fit now Heard he's fit or booked a hotel room in his name, Mike...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 7 hours ago, yarddog73 said: If he's going down the conservative and pragmatic route after four games we really are fucked, sorry but I've just about had enough the last decade of going down the happy with a point mindset, we played fucking Maidenhead not Marseille, people forget he's been watching us without pressure for weeks, he's come in and what does he decide to do - adopt the tactics of Shezzasouraus, like I said yesterday he's talked shite so far, you can talk the talk as much as you want, he said himself it's a good group of players who just need direction well the only direction I see us going is down because these lot aren't listening to him, he's brought in one unfit player who looks weeks away from being ready (great example) and wants to tell us we'd of lost that game yesterday a few weeks ago, no we wouldn't we drew at Torquay and York playing in the exact same way, big two weeks coming up now I'm not arsed at all about Chester next week all the focus should be on Yeovil at home the following week as I don't see getting through to the 1st round proper of the FA Cup as some sort of achievement, 2 points from 12 isn't the start I expected and things need to improve and sharpish as we are now picking up less points than we did under Shez. I see someone is conveniently forgetting we won the first half against Wrexham... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 On 10/9/2022 at 9:07 AM, Careca9 said: totally agree. Worry is he has no track record. We have our confidence in someone who has never managed in this league or mens football. Nothing to go against that says he’ll eventually get it right. Not fully convinced he’ll do well given time atm My worry is that while the management team looks impressive on the one hand they're used to working with literally some of the best young talent in the world. Coaching teenage/early 20's prospects on the books of a huge club like Everton is a totally different thing to trying to get a tune out of our motley crew of has been's and never will be's. It'd actually be quite remarkable if they could when you think about it. And it appears we're all in on them too. Which should be a very good thing but, even if we're still not winning 2 months from now you can't see a change being made given how invested in them we appear to be. An experienced man, a known quantity, with a record of getting shit players organised & winning in a shit league (sounds like someone we know actually) should be here in our current predicament. Unsworth, Ebbrell, Jeffers &, to a lesser extent, Rathbone look like the kind of team to bring in a year or two from now back in the EFL with more to work with. If, as we keep being told, it's going to take such a long time to get things right off the pitch surely we should have a safe pair of hands managing things on it? Instead we've gambled on a first time manager totally unfamiliar with this level of football. I like Unsworth and I hope I'm wrong and he's a roaring success in the end but I just don't see it and I'm worried we're going down again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: My worry is that while the management team looks impressive on the one hand they're used to working with literally some of the best young talent in the world. Coaching teenage/early 20's prospects on the books of a huge club like Everton is a totally different thing to trying to get a tune out of our motley crew of has been's and never will be's. It'd actually be quite remarkable if they could when you think about it. And it appears we're all in on them too. Which should be a very good thing but, even if we're still not winning 2 months from now you can't see a change being made given how invested in them we appear to be. An experienced man, a known quantity, with a record of getting shit players organised & winning in a shit league (sounds like someone we know actually) should be here in our current predicament. Unsworth, Ebbrell, Jeffers &, to a lesser extent, Rathbone look like the kind of team to bring in a year or two from now back in the EFL with more to work with. If, as we keep being told, it's going to take such a long time to get things right off the pitch surely we should have a safe pair of hands managing things on it? Instead we've gambled on a first time manager totally unfamiliar with this level of football. I like Unsworth and I hope I'm wrong and he's a roaring success in the end but I just don't see it and I'm worried we're going down again. They do need a bit if experience to help out and I hear that's on the cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 minute ago, BP1960 said: They do need a bit if experience to help out and I hear that's on the cards. On the pitch or off it? If it's on the sidelines - why have we supposedly spent so much money on a management team that are incapable of doing it themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyyou Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Jimmy Frizzell and Joe Royle had no prior coaching experience in senior football. Nor, for that matter, did our last moderately successful boss, Lee Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlion Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Boyyou said: Jimmy Frizzell and Joe Royle had no prior coaching experience in senior football. Nor, for that matter, did our last moderately successful boss, Lee Johnson. And the titanic was designed and built by experienced professionals on top of their game and that went down well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Boyyou said: Jimmy Frizzell and Joe Royle had no prior coaching experience in senior football. Nor, for that matter, did our last moderately successful boss, Lee Johnson. Neither had Darren Kelly, Selim Benachour or David Dunn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 22 hours ago, LightDN123 said: Yep, I just about remember that season, extremely vague. The only decent season I remember is when we beat Swindon at home and LJ had us 5th in February. He shortly left and Holden took us to a 17th (ish) finish. Great stuff. No, Holden "saved" us from relegation after taking over when we were 5th... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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