MATCH: vs Maidenhead United (A) 08/10/22

[HarryBosch]

21 hours ago, Lee Sinnott said:

I don't get the call for patience. 

 

I think a lot of it is from people who just want/need a rest from all the bellyaching during the Lemmie's reign, which I get and which is their prerogative.

 

They could just admit that though rather than pointing at, & disapproving of, us who are still well up for a bit of bellyaching as we seemingly head towards the drop yet again.

 

Odd that they've still got the energy for that....

 

    

[HarryBosch]

20 minutes ago, Boyyou said:

Jimmy Frizzell and Joe Royle had no prior coaching experience in senior football.

Nor, for that matter, did our last moderately successful boss, Lee Johnson.

 

15 minutes ago, redlion said:

And the titanic was designed and built by experienced professionals on top of their game and

that went down well.

 

12 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Neither had Darren Kelly, Selim Benachour or David Dunn!

 

I like this game. Can I play? 

[BP1960]

The difference here is DU will get time to develop and I doubt if very few of this sqaud will be here next season or some after January.

It must be very difficult to motivate them with those players knowing themselves they won't be here.

He will need to build a team of good players who will stay with us for 3-5 years.

It worked for Jimmy Frizzell and big Joe.

 

[Chaddyexile84]

27 minutes ago, redlion said:

And the titanic was designed and built by experienced professionals on top of their game and

that went down well.

 

The Titanic wasn't designed all that badly, lack of lifeboats aside (had more than required by law).  She was just driven like a prick on the night, again as was the norm at the time.

 

Anyway, that's my history inner geek satisfied back to footy  

[nzlatic]

8 minutes ago, HarryBosch said:

 

I think a lot of it is from people who just want/need a rest from all the bellyaching during the Lemmie's reign, which I get and which is their prerogative.

 

They could just admit that though rather than pointing at, & disapproving of, us who are still well up for a bit of bellyaching as we seemingly head towards the drop yet again.

 

Odd that they've still got the energy for that....

 

    

I thought "patience" was self-defining. I can only speak for myself, but my patience with the football side of things comes from my thinking that if you put in place an entirely new coaching team then it will take time for them to get their messages across and that they may want to do it incrementally rather than all at once.  And I'm willing to give them time to learn on the job.  Same goes with fitness and injuries - they've put in place a team to improve that side of things now but it will take time for that to take effect.  And again, same with recruitment - it will take time to get the right players in to play in the way Unsworth wants to.  Those are the main issues we all had with the playing side of things I think... the coaching, fitness/injuries and improving the playing squad.

 

It's nothing to do with wanting a rest from whinging about the last lot. If there were no signs of anything being done on either of those 3 areas then I could more understand the lack of patience. But they are openly working on every aspect of what has been wrong on the footballing side for a long time. And as long as they're doing that, I'm happy to give them time for it to start working. Doesn't mean I'm happy with the football at the moment, far from it.

 

Further down the line, if there are no improvements at all on the pitch and we're still in this position by January/February, then they have to look at it and try and work out why it's not working. But not after 3 weeks.

 

Serious question - what's the alternative to patience? What are the non-patient advocating for? Give him another 2 or 3 games then start demanding his sacking?

[deyres42]

We won't be getting relegated, might have to wait until January window before we can start bringing the required quality in though.

[oafc1955]

On 10/9/2022 at 10:00 AM, Bluemonday said:

Should all of the infrastructure not have been put in place by the directors (DR and co) not the manager? 
Begs the question how Shez and Tommy coped without all the support staff 

Simple…they didn’t!

[yarddog73]

29 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

 

The Titanic wasn't designed all that badly, lack of lifeboats aside (had more than required by law).  She was just driven like a prick on the night, again as was the norm at the time.

 

Anyway, that's my history inner geek satisfied back to footy  

It's reassuring that Unsworths at the wheel then......

[yarddog73]

1 hour ago, HarryBosch said:

 

My worry is that while the management team looks impressive on the one hand they're used to working with literally some of the best young talent in the world.

 

Coaching teenage/early 20's prospects on the books of a huge club like Everton is a totally different thing to trying to get a tune out of our motley crew of has been's and never will be's. 

It'd actually be quite remarkable if they could when you think about it.

 

And it appears we're all in on them too.

Which should be a very good thing but, even if we're still not winning 2 months from now you can't see a change being made given how invested in them we appear to be. 

 

An experienced man, a known quantity, with a record of getting shit players organised & winning in a shit league (sounds like someone we know actually) should be here in our current predicament. Unsworth, Ebbrell, Jeffers &, to a lesser extent, Rathbone look like the kind of team to bring in a year or two from now back in the EFL with more to work with.

If, as we keep being told, it's going to take such a long time to get things right off the pitch surely we should have a safe pair of hands managing things on it?

Instead we've gambled on a first time manager totally unfamiliar with this level of football.

 

I like Unsworth and I hope I'm wrong and he's a roaring success in the end but I just don't see it and I'm worried we're going down again. 

At the minute it looks like we've thrown all our eggs in to one basket, imagine if we'd of done the same with someone like David Dunn, with the coaching team in place we surely must have enough to turn the corner or are we all in with Jack high? 

[PeteG]

2 hours ago, Boyyou said:

Jimmy Frizzell and Joe Royle had no prior coaching experience in senior football.

Nor, for that matter, did our last moderately successful boss, Lee Johnson.

That was in what is now known as the Championship where getting players who hadn't quite made it at the big clubs was easy as it was a natural step down. Even Royle said recently it would be impossible to do today as the lads at City and Everton etc. on huge amounts of money where he actually was able to give the like of Palmer, Irwin, Marshall, Adams, Linighan etc. a small pay rise. Not saying Unsworth can't do it but from where we are its a much harder task and I think the point being made from the poster was it's a million miles away from coaching Everton U23s.

[HarryBosch]

2 hours ago, nzlatic said:

 

 

Serious question - what's the alternative to patience? What are the non-patient advocating for? Give him another 2 or 3 games then start demanding his sacking?

 

Impatience.

Strikers.

Of course not. How many games could a new manager go without winning though?

 

[HarryBosch]

2 hours ago, deyres42 said:

We won't be getting relegated, might have to wait until January window before we can start bringing the required quality in though.

 

Where do the #WaitTilTheEndOfTheEFLWindowAndWatchTheSigningsWeMakeLads&Lasses stand on this this time?  

[Dave_Og]

17 minutes ago, HarryBosch said:

 

Impatience.

Strikers.

Of course not. How many games could a new manager go without winning though?

 

Well they did try to get a striker so they know one (at least!) is needed

[JoeP]

2 hours ago, nzlatic said:

 

Serious question - what's the alternative to patience? What are the non-patient advocating for? Give him another 2 or 3 games then start demanding his sacking?

 

There is no alternative, really.  It's ridiculous demanding a sacking already and we'll all just have to play the waiting game like the more pragmatic fans suggest.

 

I just have a bit of feeling it might be a Scholes sort of scenario, where we've gone with a name, rather than the right person for the job.

 

Where's the new manager bounce?  Where's the change in approach to games?  Players should be giving 110% to show their worth to the new manager and other than 45 minutes against Wrexham, I haven't seen any of that.  I know there's injuries and fitness issues (supposedly..), but we're still not getting the best out of what's available, I don't think.

 

Another issue I have with ex-Premier League players and coaches coming down to this level is firstly their lack of understanding about the lower leagues (it's NOT the same game as Unsworth suggested in his first interview.  It's barely the same sport..) and also you could question whether subconsciously they'd have the same hunger as somebody working their way up, trying to build a career from below.  There's not enough on the line for them if they fail.  Scholes just fell straight back into punditry and if Unsworth is so highly rated as a coach, he'd walk straight back into it at a higher level.  Probably at Everton.

 

I think we should have gone with Greening from Scarborough, who could pick up the best players from the leagues below and get an organised unit reasonably cheaply.

 

Honestly, honestly hope I'm wrong, but I'm not quite as Zen as most..

 

 

 

 

 

[oafc1955]

Yeah, it’s probably better to have a coach who knows the lower leagues like Curle or Sheridan!!

 

It doesn’t matter who we could have brought in, there are no guarantees of success…..Unsworth will have plenty of time to get to know the lower leagues soon enough. He’s here, along with his backroom staff, for the foreseeable future.
 

It’s not a quick fix and despite some of the ridiculous opinions of dissenters on here I’m confident he will get us firing up the leagues soon enough!

 

For the first time in ages we have a progressive board and an experienced coaching set up with a definite plan for the future. 
 

Let’s just embrace what we have and give them our full support, 4 games in is not the time for panic!!!

 

 

[nzlatic]

1 hour ago, JoeP said:

 

There is no alternative, really.  It's ridiculous demanding a sacking already and we'll all just have to play the waiting game like the more pragmatic fans suggest.

 

I just have a bit of feeling it might be a Scholes sort of scenario, where we've gone with a name, rather than the right person for the job.

 

Where's the new manager bounce?  Where's the change in approach to games?  Players should be giving 110% to show their worth to the new manager and other than 45 minutes against Wrexham, I haven't seen any of that.  I know there's injuries and fitness issues (supposedly..), but we're still not getting the best out of what's available, I don't think.

 

Another issue I have with ex-Premier League players and coaches coming down to this level is firstly their lack of understanding about the lower leagues (it's NOT the same game as Unsworth suggested in his first interview.  It's barely the same sport..) and also you could question whether subconsciously they'd have the same hunger as somebody working their way up, trying to build a career from below.  There's not enough on the line for them if they fail.  Scholes just fell straight back into punditry and if Unsworth is so highly rated as a coach, he'd walk straight back into it at a higher level.  Probably at Everton.

 

I think we should have gone with Greening from Scarborough, who could pick up the best players from the leagues below and get an organised unit reasonably cheaply.

 

Honestly, honestly hope I'm wrong, but I'm not quite as Zen as most..

 

I fully get all your points about Unsworth. I don't think you're wrong to have any of those concerns. But the reason for my being relaxed is not because I have 100% faith in Unsworth. Who knows how it will turn out. I hope he turns the corner soon and we go up this season. If not, I hope we're challenging all season next year. But if the worst happens and he turns out to be a dud and we get relegated then I'm still relatively relaxed - because of the owners.

 

I don't see them as the sort that are financially linked to quick fire promotion. I don't see them getting bored with their play thing and pulling the plug if it doesn't work leaving us either destitute or starting from scratch.  The owners are local people with long standing ties to the community who want to make the club a focal point of the community. That's a long term project. So the football side of things might go up and down but ultimately I trust them to make decisions in the best interest of the club rather than themselves and more importantly, I trust them not to disappear and leave us in the shit if things go badly. I'm confident they'll get it right with the on the pitch matters, and as much as I really want that to happen quickly, I have to accept it might take a while.

[JoeP]

5 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

I fully get all your points about Unsworth. I don't think you're wrong to have any of those concerns. But the reason for my being relaxed is not because I have 100% faith in Unsworth. Who knows how it will turn out. I hope he turns the corner soon and we go up this season. If not, I hope we're challenging all season next year. But if the worst happens and he turns out to be a dud and we get relegated then I'm still relatively relaxed - because of the owners.

 

I don't see them as the sort that are financially linked to quick fire promotion. I don't see them getting bored with their play thing and pulling the plug if it doesn't work leaving us either destitute or starting from scratch.  The owners are local people with long standing ties to the community who want to make the club a focal point of the community. That's a long term project. So the football side of things might go up and down but ultimately I trust them to make decisions in the best interest of the club rather than themselves and more importantly, I trust them not to disappear and leave us in the shit if things go badly. I'm confident they'll get it right with the on the pitch matters, and as much as I really want that to happen quickly, I have to accept it might take a while.

 

We don't want another relegation.  People have predicted relegation being a good thing for the club on the last four occasions, and look how it's turned out.  This season should be our lowest ebb.  Avoiding relegation would save such a lot of work for the owners to get the club back to where it should be.

 

The owners have revitalised the club and while long-term plans are great, we need a short term one too.  No one in their right mind is demanding a quick-fire promotion, but I don't think it should be too much to demand survival.  The lower we drop, the harder it will be to come back.  Lets not risk it.  Again.

[nzlatic]

1 minute ago, JoeP said:

 

We don't want another relegation.  People have predicted relegation being a good thing for the club on the last four occasions, and look how it's turned out.  This season should be our lowest ebb.  Avoiding relegation would save such a lot of work for the owners to get the club back to where it should be.

 

The owners have revitalised the club and while long-term plans are great, we need a short term one too.  No one in their right mind is demanding a quick-fire promotion, but I don't think it should be too much to demand survival.  The lower we drop, the harder it will be to come back.  Lets not risk it.  Again.

I said relatively relaxed, not actively wanting it! Of course I don't want it and there's no case to be made for the club needing it either (in the past it was argued that relegation might force the Lemsagams out), I was just illustrating a point by using an extreme example. That even if that did happen I would trust the owners to stick it out and still keep trying to build a better future. 

 

That being said, if we do get relegated from here it's because Unsworth would have actually made things worse rather than better, so if that is the case later in the season I wouldn't be surprised to see the owners doing something about it to avoid relegation.

 

I guess my issue is not that people are critical of the performances, it's more that the language used suggest some think it's unacceptable that things haven't got better yet and that more drastic action needs to be taken soon. Rather than trusting the process and taking time to build things properly.

[Guy Branston Pickle]

4 hours ago, nzlatic said:

 

Serious question - what's the alternative to patience? 

I think for many it will be non-attendance. Crowds will start to dip. He absolutely deserves patience, but I for one can no longer justify giving up my Saturday afternoons and paying 20 odd quid for something that I just don't enjoy anymore. Every season feels like Groundhog Day, new manager, new group of players who are worse than the last and who I have no affection for whatsoever. I've done 2 1/2 decades of it and I just can't anymore. I can imagine there's a lot of people feel the same way. 

 

I'm not saying I'm packing it in altogether btw. It's in the blood. But this is where I'm at at the moment.

[League one forever]

26 minutes ago, JoeP said:

People have predicted relegation being a good thing for the club on the last four occasions, and look how it's turned out.

You’ve made that up Joe. It was said once for the reason below. 

 

19 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

(in the past it was argued that relegation might force the Lemsagams out), I

. . . and it did. 
 

Other than it being an necessary evil to force the worst owners in our history out of the door. Relegation is never a good thing, but is a chance to rebuild. The problem we’ve always had is that relegation for us has just meant further decline and stagnation. We’ve never been as galvanised after relegation as we are now, that’s why I share your concern in how long Unsy wants to rebuild, and the fans appetite to stick with his current approach in the medium to long term. 
 

 

[JoeP]

27 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

I said relatively relaxed, not actively wanting it! Of course I don't want it and there's no case to be made for the club needing it either (in the past it was argued that relegation might force the Lemsagams out), I was just illustrating a point by using an extreme example. That even if that did happen I would trust the owners to stick it out and still keep trying to build a better future. 

 

That being said, if we do get relegated from here it's because Unsworth would have actually made things worse rather than better, so if that is the case later in the season I wouldn't be surprised to see the owners doing something about it to avoid relegation.

 

I guess my issue is not that people are critical of the performances, it's more that the language used suggest some think it's unacceptable that things haven't got better yet and that more drastic action needs to be taken soon. Rather than trusting the process and taking time to build things properly.

 

I know you don't actively want relegation. It was just a turn of phrase.  i.e we really really really want to avoid it.  I'd say it should be a priority.

 

I wouldn't say it's unacceptable that things haven't got better yet, but it is disappointing...

[JoeP]

6 minutes ago, League one forever said:

You’ve made that up Joe. It was said once for the reason below. 

 

. . . and it did. 
 

Other than it being an necessary evil to force the worst owners in our history out of the door. Relegation is never a good thing, but is a chance to rebuild. The problem we’ve always had is that relegation for us has just meant further decline and stagnation. We’ve never been as galvanised after relegation as we are now, that’s why I share your concern in how long Unsy wants to rebuild, and the fans appetite to stick with his current approach in the medium to long term. 
 

 

 

I definitely haven't made that up.  People predicted our relegation from the Premier League would be a chance to rebuild and come back stronger.  And then again from the second tier, etc.  This was before the time of messageboards, though, so you'll just have to trust me!

 

And you might be right about relegation forcing the Lemsegams out.  But then again they might have gone if we'd stayed up.  You don't know for sure and neither do I, so I won't be arguing the toss any further because we've done it to death...

[Chaddyexile84]

25 minutes ago, League one forever said:

You’ve made that up Joe. 

 

 

 

He really hasnt

 

Plenty said relegation would be what we needed to do a Lazarus in 1994, 97 and for a good few years before and including 2017

[GlossopLatic]

35 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

I think for many it will be non-attendance. Crowds will start to dip. He absolutely deserves patience, but I for one can no longer justify giving up my Saturday afternoons and paying 20 odd quid for something that I just don't enjoy anymore. Every season feels like Groundhog Day, new manager, new group of players who are worse than the last and who I have no affection for whatsoever. I've done 2 1/2 decades of it and I just can't anymore. I can imagine there's a lot of people feel the same way. 

 

I'm not saying I'm packing it in altogether btw. It's in the blood. But this is where I'm at at the moment.

 

But let's just say if you drifted away abit for a period of time could be weeks, months whatever if results improve you would come back right?

 

See to me what to me this summer showed is that when fans drift away they won't be lost forever. I wouldn't be surprised to see attendances tail off over winter. The elements and the cost of living crisis will have an impact but results will be the biggest factor. But if results do pick up and we start getting within striking distance of the play offs at around end of March then I can see attendances at even higher levels than we have seen so far. 

 

I don't think if we see attendances drop off then that means we lose fans forever they will drift back if we start winning.

 

 

 

 

[League one forever]

3 minutes ago, JoeP said:

I definitely haven't made that up.  People predicted our relegation from the Premier League would be a chance to rebuild and come back stronger.  And then again from the second tier, etc.  This was before the time of messageboards, though, so you'll just have to trust me!

No one has ever said- Relegation will be good for the club. I can’t wait to watch shitter teams, and the club have less income. 
 

What they have said- is it ‘could’ be a chance to rebuild. 
 

That is two very different things. 
 

Lots of teams gets relegated, rebuild and come again. We don’t. 

When we got relegated from league one- season ticket sales went up, why was that? It was because people thought we’d competitive and bounce back- we didn’t. 

So for lots of teams, relegation in itself is never good, people lose jobs etc.  But managed correctly (and there in lies the problem) it does allow clubs to build positive momentum and come again. In our case, we just made further cuts and managed the decline.