Can we afford it?

[mcfluff1985]

37 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

You know the budget now then? I'm presuming if there is a budget they planned on X amount of people coming through the turnstiles to support it or are they just happy to piss copious amounts of it down the drain whilst Dave learns on the job?, which is my point really. No way on earth they planned all this on crowds of sub 5000 because Unsworths football is shit.

maybe they did budget for crowds of 5k so are happy woth the amount in. Nobody knows

[wiseowl]

5 hours ago, yarddog73 said:

...looking at home crowds minus away followings this season they are following a worrying trend;

 

Aldershot 7342

Halifax 7186

Solihull 6690

Dorking 6219

 

Saturday was a glorious day with no local matches higher up the pyramid due to the International break so we probably attracted a few floating fans through the gate on that number. 

 

It's a fucking mess and needs sorting sharpish before the crowds drop to around 5000 that in my opinion would be negligent on the boards/owners part.

I suspect the home game a week tomorrow (York) may well see our first sub 6,000 attendance this season (particularly if it's a bad result this weekend). FR and family know little about football. One thing we all know as Latics fans is that it takes a long time to win back those "lost" floating supporters. Crowds were undoubtedly swelled by the huge optimism generally, following the takeover. The honeymoon period has now come to an end and people are starting to vote with their feet regarding the (generally) boring mediocrity served up by typical DU teams. 

 

Something is not right because many balanced people can see that it is very largely DU's management that is hindering our progress. Remember all the giddiness on here about our odds with the bookies as 2nd favourites for promotion before the season began?. We were 10/3, just behind Chesterfield, with the next nearest club being 10/1. The bookies couldn't be wrong could they? They clearly didn't factor in the DU effect!

 

So, perhaps there is something contractual that he has until the end of this season to "prove himself" (however that may be). If so (i.e. something written into contract) then FR et al will have been naive beyond belief. Surely not? Who knows?

 

I am at a loss now with regard to what is going on but I cannot see how anyone can still support DU after his poor year at the helm. Yarddog is quite correct that home attendance will dwindle significantly if this continues and that would be so very sad all round.

[100milesaway]

If the manager doesn't start playing exiting, entertaining,  attacking football immediately, crowds will dwindle at an alarming rate.

 

Winter time home matches against teams who only bring 60 to 70 fans will see crowds of less than 4 thousand.

 

The attendance figures have already dropped alarmingly, and will plummet further, unless we start playing a style of football that so far we have seen no evidence of.

 

We need to stop fearing every team that we meet . Let others worry about us. And attack, attack attack.

 

 

[Dave_Og]

1 hour ago, wiseowl said:

I suspect the home game a week tomorrow (York) may well see our first sub 6,000 attendance this season (particularly if it's a bad result this weekend). FR and family know little about football. One thing we all know as Latics fans is that it takes a long time to win back those "lost" floating supporters. Crowds were undoubtedly swelled by the huge optimism generally, following the takeover. The honeymoon period has now come to an end and people are starting to vote with their feet regarding the (generally) boring mediocrity served up by typical DU teams. 

 

Something is not right because many balanced people can see that it is very largely DU's management that is hindering our progress. Remember all the giddiness on here about our odds with the bookies as 2nd favourites for promotion before the season began?. We were 10/3, just behind Chesterfield, with the next nearest club being 10/1. The bookies couldn't be wrong could they? They clearly didn't factor in the DU effect!

 

So, perhaps there is something contractual that he has until the end of this season to "prove himself" (however that may be). If so (i.e. something written into contract) then FR et al will have been naive beyond belief. Surely not? Who knows?

 

I am at a loss now with regard to what is going on but I cannot see how anyone can still support DU after his poor year at the helm. Yarddog is quite correct that home attendance will dwindle significantly if this continues and that would be so very sad all round.

We were never 10/3, shortest price I saw was 7/1

[wiseowl]

1 minute ago, Dave_Og said:

We were never 10/3, shortest price I saw was 7/1

https://www.theoldhamtimes.co.uk/sport/23653035.betvictor-names-oldham-athletic-among-promotion-favourites/

 

You are thinking of title there, Dave - 10/3 for promotion 

[Dave_Og]

Just now, wiseowl said:

https://www.theoldhamtimes.co.uk/sport/23653035.betvictor-names-oldham-athletic-among-promotion-favourites/

 

You are thinking of title there, Dave - 10/3 for promotion 

Yes, fair point. There's so much of a lottery in the play offs that I really think that would have been a daft bet

 I put plenty on ew at an average of 10s. Bad call, such is life.

[LaticsLegend]

1 hour ago, wiseowl said:

I suspect the home game a week tomorrow (York) may well see our first sub 6,000 attendance this season (particularly if it's a bad result this weekend). FR and family know little about football. One thing we all know as Latics fans is that it takes a long time to win back those "lost" floating supporters. Crowds were undoubtedly swelled by the huge optimism generally, following the takeover. The honeymoon period has now come to an end and people are starting to vote with their feet regarding the (generally) boring mediocrity served up by typical DU teams. 

 

Something is not right because many balanced people can see that it is very largely DU's management that is hindering our progress. Remember all the giddiness on here about our odds with the bookies as 2nd favourites for promotion before the season began?. We were 10/3, just behind Chesterfield, with the next nearest club being 10/1. The bookies couldn't be wrong could they? They clearly didn't factor in the DU effect!

 

So, perhaps there is something contractual that he has until the end of this season to "prove himself" (however that may be). If so (i.e. something written into contract) then FR et al will have been naive beyond belief. Surely not? Who knows?

 

I am at a loss now with regard to what is going on but I cannot see how anyone can still support DU after his poor year at the helm. Yarddog is quite correct that home attendance will dwindle significantly if this continues and that would be so very sad all round.

 

It's an interesting theory about something being in the contract, given what his family told @Lee Sinnott last season about being guaranteed the job for 2 years of the three.

 

Personally, I can't work out whether it's the pay off, the Royle's being pals with him, the club wanting to stop hiring and firing culture, something in his contract or a combination of all of the above.

 

 

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

9 hours ago, yarddog73 said:

It's a fucking mess and needs sorting sharpish before the crowds drop to around 5000 that in my opinion would be negligent on the boards/owners part.

 

a) It's not a fucking mess. Being run by a destructive charlatan like Mohammad Lemsegam and plummeting through two divisions is a fucking mess. It's disappointing at worst.
b) Crowds will probably drop due to bad results but other factors too such as colder weather, bunches of home matches all together and the peaks and troughs of the local economic situation.
c) Is that how we're going to be run from now on? two straight defeats and we have to sack the manager because 500 drift off?

I think a little perspective is required. Hugely disappointing start to the season and huge question marks around the manager, for good reason. The owners have invested heavily in the club from top to bottom and are committed to a brighter future. I'm backing them to make the right decision, whether that's giving the man they backed more time (and a deadline) to turn it round or whether they decide to sack him tomorrow and bring in his replacement in for Saturday.

The hysteria amongst some (a fairly small proportion) of our fanbase is ludicrous. Accusing the owners of negligance is, frankly, out of order.

[Littlemoor Lad]

11 hours ago, mcfluff1985 said:

maybe they did budget for crowds of 5k so are happy woth the amount in. Nobody knows

They wouldn't be able to spend what they have on that, so no

What a capitulation from all the euphoria of the club becoming whole again,

All thanks to a one man wrecking ball

[yarddog73]

5 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

a) It's not a fucking mess. Being run by a destructive charlatan like Mohammad Lemsegam and plummeting through two divisions is a fucking mess. It's disappointing at worst.
b) Crowds will probably drop due to bad results but other factors too such as colder weather, bunches of home matches all together and the peaks and troughs of the local economic situation.
c) Is that how we're going to be run from now on? two straight defeats and we have to sack the manager because 500 drift off?

I think a little perspective is required. Hugely disappointing start to the season and huge question marks around the manager, for good reason. The owners have invested heavily in the club from top to bottom and are committed to a brighter future. I'm backing them to make the right decision, whether that's giving the man they backed more time (and a deadline) to turn it round or whether they decide to sack him tomorrow and bring in his replacement in for Saturday.

The hysteria amongst some (a fairly small proportion) of our fanbase is ludicrous. Accusing the owners of negligance is, frankly, out of order.

It's not hysteria it's debate, you are happy for the owners to make the right decision where as I personally think they are fucking the opportunity right up, in my opinion its a fucking mess influenced largely by nepotism, I'm not disappointed we've got an absolute chump for a manager I'm pissed off because the guys fucking useless which is reflected in his results and performances we continue to churn out, gates are down because the football is shite, it really is that simple. Over a 1000 aren't hysterical they are staying at home because they can't be arsed.

 

As for a deadline to turn it around I personally think that's long gone, this season has nearly sailed and yet again we continue to try and make excuses for incompetence. 

[deyres42]

7 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

It's not hysteria it's debate, you are happy for the owners to make the right decision where as I personally think they are fucking the opportunity right up, in my opinion its a fucking mess influenced largely by nepotism, I'm not disappointed we've got an absolute chump for a manager I'm pissed off because the guys fucking useless which is reflected in his results and performances we continue to churn out, gates are down because the football is shite, it really is that simple. Over a 1000 aren't hysterical they are staying at home because they can't be arsed.

 

As for a deadline to turn it around I personally think that's long gone, this season has nearly sailed and yet again we continue to try and make excuses for incompetence. 

Well over 100 points still to play for but the season has nearly sailed? Not hysterical at all...

[nzlatic]

21 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Well over 100 points still to play for but the season has nearly sailed? Not hysterical at all...

Exactly. We’re a short run of decent results away from being in the play offs. Whether that’s with this manager or another. People are acting like it’s march and we’re 10 points away from safety.

[Littlemoor Lad]

10 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Well over 100 points still to play for but the season has nearly sailed? Not hysterical at all...

On that basis,

When are we going to start playing them?

 

[Littlemoor Lad]

15 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Exactly. We’re a short run of decent results away from being in the play offs. Whether that’s with this manager or another. People are acting like it’s march and we’re 10 points away from safety.

We're not getting anywhere near enough with this manager and if he's staying, which is highly likely, as things stand.

So yes, this season has a decent chance of being written off already

That's what Yardy is building his argument on

[JohnG123]

Mid table at best with delusional Dave at the helm.. 

[Dave_Og]

If we can't afford it then that suggests poor financial mismanagement on a scale approaching the Lemsagams. - Only kidding, just poor financial mismanagement.  I think that's quite disrespectful.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Dave_Og

[TheBigDog]

7 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:
 

I'm backing them to make the right decision, whether that's giving the man they backed more time (and a deadline) to turn it round or whether they decide to sack him tomorrow and bring in his replacement in for Saturday.

I am hearing and reading the above argument more and more.

 

Whether the owners give him more time or they sack him tomorrow will be the right decision …er, yeah ….

 

Surely whatever decision they make will only be judged on what comes after?

 

Any decision they make will be what they BELIEVE to be the right one - and only that. Time will tell if proved to be the right one.

[Dave_Og]

50 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

I am hearing and reading the above argument more and more.

 

Whether the owners give him more time or they sack him tomorrow will be the right decision …er, yeah ….

 

Surely whatever decision they make will only be judged on what comes after?

 

Any decision they make will be what they BELIEVE to be the right one - and only that. Time will tell if proved to be the right one.

 

 

ain't no guarantees available

 

[TheBigDog]

21 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

 

ain't no guarantees available

 

 but sometimes you just got to spin the wheel

[Steve_R]

1 hour ago, TheBigDog said:

I am hearing and reading the above argument more and more.

 

Whether the owners give him more time or they sack him tomorrow will be the right decision …er, yeah ….

 

Surely whatever decision they make will only be judged on what comes after?

 

Any decision they make will be what they BELIEVE to be the right one - and only that. Time will tell if proved to be the right one.

That’s the problem. Sacking the manager isn’t necessarily the answer to current problems. Short term it is, as it gets shut of the manager no one likes, but if the next manager in doesn’t instantly improve us and has us flying up the league, then we’re all unhappy again.

Sacking the manager isn’t the answer, appointing the right man is. Who that is, god only knows. 

[nzlatic]

4 minutes ago, Steve_R said:

That’s the problem. Sacking the manager isn’t necessarily the answer to current problems. Short term it is, as it gets shut of the manager no one likes, but if the next manager in doesn’t instantly improve us and has us flying up the league, then we’re all unhappy again.

Sacking the manager isn’t the answer, appointing the right man is. Who that is, god only knows. 

That is such a key point. I don't buy into the idea that "anyone could get this squad in the playoffs". 

 

Young managers doing well at smaller clubs - could they handle the pressure of the expectation? 

Experienced older managers - they will probably have experienced failure as well as success.

 

Some folk think it's as simple as sacking DU and bringing someone else in and we'll fly up the table. If only it were that easy.

[deyres42]

1 minute ago, nzlatic said:

That is such a key point. I don't buy into the idea that "anyone could get this squad in the playoffs". 

 

Young managers doing well at smaller clubs - could they handle the pressure of the expectation? 

Experienced older managers - they will probably have experienced failure as well as success.

 

Some folk think it's as simple as sacking DU and bringing someone else in and we'll fly up the table. If only it were that easy.

And the idea that things will settle down on the terraces if they just change the manager when the current mood is to get rid after a short run of perceived poor form.

[wiseowl]

9 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

c) Is that how we're going to be run from now on? two straight defeats and we have to sack the manager because 500 drift off?
 

Has anyone said that?

 

By the way, it's more than double the figure you have quoted that have already "drifted off" so early in the season. That's alarming in itself. It's certainly not based on a couple of matches either. We've had a year of pretty much dross and not seen one iota of improvement from DU teams.

 

In any other business, if your paying customers were witholding their money in such numbers, so quickly, you'd be getting to the root cause sharpish. Fans have largely stuck by us because they really appreciate what FR et al have done. The goodwill obviously only lasts so long, though. IF there were ANY signs whatsoever that DU was taking us in the right direction, I reckon the majority would "stay for the ride" despite his predictable mind-numbingly boring football.

 

There are no signs of improvement and he needs to go. If you can't see that well, "Frankly....

[Gozza]

I live in the South & don't get to see the team in the flesh often apart from TV games. So, what I say is only based on snapshots & can be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

I saw our last League win at Stevenage, some 15 months ago. In that game, we scored a good goal against the run of play, then sat back as they controlled the game, passed through our midfield for fun &, but for poor finishing, could have scored 4. What I have witnessed in the Borehamwood & Gateshead games is exactly the same (though with some improved pressing in the latter).

 

In general, I cannot see any improvement over those 15 months. There is no clear structure to the way we play, no control in midfield & no plan B if things go badly. We appear incapable of holding the ball for any length of time as the opposition pass us off the park. We then sit increasingly deep, rely on long balls that rarely find our players & rapidly come back & put us under pressure.

 

Consequently, while I was content to see how the team performed at the start of this season following the upturn in results after Christmas, I am struggling to see that Unsworth has had any beneficial impact on the way we play. I still see no clear system apart from playing poor football & hoping to sneak a goal. This is no way to take a club forward.

[HarryBosch]

There was a tweet recently saying that the Rothwells/Royles/the board want us to be seen as a club where managers are given time.

 

If true they seem to be confusing giving a manager time who's come in and shown something (like Joe did in his first season) once his inevitable first blips come along with giving ANY manager time regardless of whether he does anything to earn it.

 

Any prospective manager looking in would already be perfectly happy that this absolute non entity has been given way more time than he's earnt. 

 

So, mission accomplished already.

 

Now roll the dice, and then roll it again if need be until we get somebody in who shows something to warrant being given time.