Dickov v Talbot

[oafcprozac]

In 2003/04 Talbot helped banish any lingering doubts over whether our team of misfits, kids, loanees and old men would suffer relegation by putting in a strong run to the season's end and eventually finishing comfortably in mid-table.

 

The year after we suffered a lack of consistency, but after snapping up youngsters Croft, Kilkenny, Hughes and Bruce we initially went on a very good run that saw us defeat Manchester City in the FA Cup, lose narrowly at home to Bolton in Round 4 and progress through to the Northern Area Final of the Football League Trophy. However after an horrendous run he was dismissed, despite having a better win ratio than some managers and us scoring many more goals and winning more home games during his tenure - including a 7 match winning run in Nov-Dec 2004 and winning 4 home games on the trot in Aug-Sept (a feat we hadn't completed in years) then beating that by winning 5 consecutive home games later that year.

 

Dickov's record is far worse than that of Talbot's, in terms of win ratio, goals scored, home wins - in fact everything! Yes he got us to the 3rd round of the FA Cup, where let's be honest we were hammered by a poor LIverpool side and lost to a team that was relegated in the Northern Area Final of the JPT (So were Wrexham in 2005), so simply because Dickov talks a good game and gets down with the fans, why is he immune from the abuse Talbot got? When in reality a lot of the time under Talbot we played some very good stuff, he even got Killen playing and scoring goals!

 

If your face fits you get away with pretty much anything at BP it seems, but like in 2004/05 Talbot was taking us down and had to go. It's the same situation with Dickov….

[oafc1955]

Didn't Talbot resign?

[byrnes boots]

Obviosly talbot was better at motivation than dickov

[jsslatic]

why is he immune from the abuse Talbot got?

 

Maybe because abusing your own manager is pointless and stupid.

[Matt]

Maybe because abusing your own manager is pointless and stupid.

 

Exactly.

[disjointed]

Maybe because abusing your own manager is pointless and stupid.

As is abusing your own players, it wont make them any better by being hounded for every little mistake. what you hope for is that the manager can see who is performing, who isn't, and act accordingly. unfortunately our manager is too blinkered and naive that it's the same faces, same s**t and same result! Use the forums to voice your displeasure dont abuse them at the match.

[ChrisA]

Dickov would have battered those Iraqi blokes though.

 

Favourite Talbot moment, as he neared end of his reign was bringing his own son in. On trial. Great work Bri.

Edited December 30, 2012 by ChrisA

[Guest Scratch2000uk]

Latics fans have made their point, they don't turn up in numbers anymore.

[GlossopLatic]

Talbot would have taken us down that season had he stayed and had a very young team with few leaders which is what you could say about this team.

 

Its not necessarily a bad thing to have good PR skills to get the fans on side and Brian Talbot made a number of PR gaffes but it doesn't matter how good your PR skills are if you don't back them up with results your screwed either way.

Simon Corney has some tough decisions to make now its very much a case of back him or sack him in January we clearly need a replacement striker for Mat Derbyshire and another if as expected Baxter goes. We possibly need an older head out their barking out the instructions we get abit of that from Furman and Byrne but not much from anyonelse and an experienced head who has been in these types of situations before.

 

We might also need an experienced head on the bench too Dickov shouldn't be given a number 2 it could undermine him if we are going to make a change here just get rid of the manager and bring someonelse in. I'm now no longer adverse to a management change but like I said in my "so after we sacked" post the other day the only difference that will make is steering us clear of relegation and hopefully they will be able to do the same next season because unless circumstances change the height of our ambition is staying in league 1 and a possible big cup tie as our one big day out per season.

 

Simon Corney did say in the summer that until the new stand and extras come about we will be having a few more lean years and that is how it will be for the next few years until/if this change happens which is pretty depressing really.

[stargazer]

One thing these two eras have in common is a total mess up in the JTP .

 

The awul self destruction against Wreham mirrored by losing home and away to hapless bottom finishing Chesterfield.

[lalalajpkalala]

What's all this I keep reading about Dickov being a decent bloke? I've never met the guy or spoken to him but I have seen his antics in the technical area and he comes across as a complete and utter fool compared to the vast majority of managers. Anyway, he should be judged on results, goals scored, goals conceded, performances, return on investment in his squad. The rest is a sideshow. Whether he's nice or not reminds me of those amongst us who blame the opposition every week for time wasting when we're losing. They aren't the reason we're crap to watch and they're winning and have earned the right to waste time (God, I wish we were good enough for Bouzanis to not have to race around getting the ball forward in a panic towards the end of every game). Ultimately I have no idea what his budget is or how it compares, but I do know that his team has been awful to watch since about November last year other than the very odd performance. And that's why I'd quite like to see him replaced by someone who can hopefully better set the team up to cause problems for the opposition. Having said that, whoever the manager is, for ninety minutes each week I'll support the team and I bloody hope we win at Glanford Park, The City Ground on so on, Dickov or no Dickov, nice guy or fool.

[Tommy_Fent]

the only real differences between Talbot and Dickov was we averaged 2000 more fans under Talbot and that Talbot's aim was to finish as high as we can whereas Dickov has already stated that his aim is to avoid relegation, which to me stinks of a defeatist attitude. I'll never forget before the Spurs game when questioned about the threat of Jermaine Defoe "I know how good Jermaine Defoe is but do Tottenham know how good Jermaine Johnson is?" you may laugh it off but at least he had faith in his players

Edited December 30, 2012 by Tommy_Fent

[boundaryblue80]

In 2003/04 Talbot helped banish any lingering doubts over whether our team of misfits, kids, loanees and old men would suffer relegation by putting in a strong run to the season's end and eventually finishing comfortably in mid-table.

 

The year after we suffered a lack of consistency, but after snapping up youngsters Croft, Kilkenny, Hughes and Bruce we initially went on a very good run that saw us defeat Manchester City in the FA Cup, lose narrowly at home to Bolton in Round 4 and progress through to the Northern Area Final of the Football League Trophy. However after an horrendous run he was dismissed, despite having a better win ratio than some managers and us scoring many more goals and winning more home games during his tenure - including a 7 match winning run in Nov-Dec 2004 and winning 4 home games on the trot in Aug-Sept (a feat we hadn't completed in years) then beating that by winning 5 consecutive home games later that year.

 

Dickov's record is far worse than that of Talbot's, in terms of win ratio, goals scored, home wins - in fact everything! Yes he got us to the 3rd round of the FA Cup, where let's be honest we were hammered by a poor LIverpool side and lost to a team that was relegated in the Northern Area Final of the JPT (So were Wrexham in 2005), so simply because Dickov talks a good game and gets down with the fans, why is he immune from the abuse Talbot got? When in reality a lot of the time under Talbot we played some very good stuff, he even got Killen playing and scoring goals!

 

If your face fits you get away with pretty much anything at BP it seems, but like in 2004/05 Talbot was taking us down and had to go. It's the same situation with Dickov….

 

Absolute crock of :censored:! You'd think we spent most of this season sat in the relegation places! And you'd think Dickov had :censored:loads of cash like Talbot had in year 1 of The Three Asset Strippers 5-year plan.

 

This seasons remit...stay up on a paltry budget. Job being done...until todays actions have taken place. Let's see what happens next. You'll still have PD to blame tho eh!

[bowl]

 

 

Absolute crock of :censored:! You'd think we spent most of this season sat in the relegation places! And you'd think Dickov had :censored:loads of cash like Talbot had in year 1 of The Three Asset Strippers 5-year plan.

 

This seasons remit...stay up on a paltry budget. Job being done...until todays actions have taken place. Let's see what happens next. You'll still have PD to blame tho eh!

 

If it was down to you we would still have Dave Penney in charge.

[Senor_Coconut]

Nah, BB80 was a Ronnie guy.

 

Wise fellow.

[oafcprozac]

Not biting Ross, you'd go against your own Mother if it meant getting your own viewpoint across which is fair enough.

 

Dickov had my backing and I shouted the initial dissenters down, but since trying to hold on to a 1-0 at Chesterfield for me he's not up to the job. You know I agree with you over Corney and his motives but by letting PD cling to his job imo will do more harm than good.

 

Oh and Talbot wasn't in the relegation places until the very end of his tenure, if Scunny beat us tomorrow and win on Saturday we'll be down there too.

 

And I don't get this notion that Talbot had a budget, he signed Arber and Jack and a load of kids on loan- the only time The Three Landlords pushed the boat out was in 2005 on the back of a massive hike in ST prices. Moore and Shez reaped the benefits more than any other manager(s).

 

There was no money, then suddenly after Talbot was binned The Three Landlords found spare £100k for Beckett to save our arses...

Edited December 31, 2012 by oafcprozac

[bowl]

Nah, BB80 was a Ronnie guy.

 

Wise fellow.

 

He was one of the (very) few people who was against Penney leaving.

Edited December 31, 2012 by bowl

[PlayItLivo]

 

 

Absolute crock of :censored:! You'd think we spent most of this season sat in the relegation places! And you'd think Dickov had :censored:loads of cash like Talbot had in year 1 of The Three Asset Strippers 5-year plan.

 

This seasons remit...stay up on a paltry budget. Job being done...until todays actions have taken place. Let's see what happens next. You'll still have PD to blame tho eh!

 

Talbot had a :censored:load of cash? Was this before or after he was done signing the likes of Mark Bonner, Deane Crowe, Wes Wilkinson, Rodney Jack and Steve Mildenhall? Even Kilkenny and Croft were rookies who wouldn't have cost much.

 

Now compare Dickov who's signed an experience Croft from a Championship side, Matt 16 :censored:ing grand a week Derbyshire, if we get Baxter on another deal his wage will rocket, Wesolowski who's an established L1 centre mid, fees spent on Cisak and Montano. Probably pushed the boat out to get Mvoto too. You can bet Feeney was on a decent slice and we'd have done well to get Amos pretty cheap given he was Man Utd established 3rd choice and had made CL appearances.

 

 

 

 

[boundaryblue80]

He was one of the (very) few people who was against Penney leaving.

 

I don't see many differences between Penney and Dickov. In that Penney had a smaller budget than the previous manager (who blew a stack of cash) and then had 10-12 injuries for most of the season to contend with. Playing his fringe players cost him and served up not the best football, but what we could get out of the squad left. Dickov on the other hand has a paltry budget and is getting what he can out of the squad. There's only 1 man who deserved sacking at the club...that was Talbot. Making comparisons between him and Dickov is quite sad really. But everyone needs a scapegoat. Mine is the man at the very top who is killing off the club on a daily basis with his bile in the press and actions in the boardroom.

[boundaryblue80]

Talbot had a :censored:load of cash? Was this before or after he was done signing the likes of Mark Bonner, Deane Crowe, Wes Wilkinson, Rodney Jack and Steve Mildenhall? Even Kilkenny and Croft were rookies who wouldn't have cost much.

 

Now compare Dickov who's signed an experience Croft from a Championship side, Matt 16 :censored:ing grand a week Derbyshire, if we get Baxter on another deal his wage will rocket, Wesolowski who's an established L1 centre mid, fees spent on Cisak and Montano. Probably pushed the boat out to get Mvoto too. You can bet Feeney was on a decent slice and we'd have done well to get Amos pretty cheap given he was Man Utd established 3rd choice and had made CL appearances.

 

I'll give you Crowe and Wilkinson, but Bonner came from Cardiff in the Championship, Rodney Jack at the time was considered a bit of a coup and Mildenhall won't have been cheap either. As for the current players, it depends if you believe everything you're told regarding what we've spent. I don't believe for a second that we paid the sort of figures talked about for Montano. It's up to you if you believe them. And it sounds great to mention Derbyshires wage at Forest...even though we're paying (I'm told £1.2 a week of it.)

 

EDIT: I forgot to add in Arber...the man that Posh made club captain and better improved their first offer to him which we still beat! Talbot spunked most of his money on that fellow!!! And Guy Branston FFS!!! These planks didn't come cheap hence the kids we ended up bringing in during the season.

 

Under Talbot we were going down...the wheels had well and truly come off. So far this season, it hasn't yet. No matter how black people want to paint it.

Edited December 31, 2012 by boundaryblue80

[bowl]

Fair enough BB, what do you think the solution is though?

[BP1960]

The one thing Talbot did was to bring some discipline into the club, players had to smarten up their appearance too (which has badly lapsed under this regime).

Of course being well turned out doesn't make for a good team, but a pride in your business can help.

Edited December 31, 2012 by BP1960

[boundaryblue80]

The solution is Corney and his 2 mates (who are still involved to some extent with finances if you talk to people working inside the club) putting the club up for sale and not asking silly money for it. They can bang on about anyone can have the club for a penny all they like (which they can, but you'll get cock all for that and have to pay them 3 ground rent etc.)

 

There are people wanting to invest in clubs out there as has been proven elsewhere...two of them begin with B and sit in the playoffs after being on their arse with just as much to offer as we do. Our hands are tied because they've stripped the land from the club (most call it asset stripping...our lot don't want to tho...why?)

 

I just hope this dance we're doing over a new stand isn't just to take us up to January 2014 for bulldozers to steam into BP. Not a penny of the council money has landed at the club yet (according to the last time I spoke to my mate in the council last month)...so that 10-yr covenent from Jan 2004 on the land still exists. Yet people think Corney is sincere and a fan like the rest of us. These people really do believe in Father Christmas and Fairies!!!

 

The conclusion is it's pointless to change the manager. As I said to one lad at the end of the Crewe game..."bang on about tactics all you like...Dickov could be the greatest tactician in the World but if them players aren't up to it to take it on board and play to it then there's not a lot PD or anyone can do. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys." It's a ride we all have to grin and bare sadly.

Edited December 31, 2012 by boundaryblue80

[BP1960]

The solution is Corney and his 2 mates (who are still involved to some extent with finances if you talk to people working inside the club) putting the club up for sale and not asking silly money for it. They can bang on about anyone can have the club for a penny all they like (which they can, but you'll get cock all for that and have to pay them 3 ground rent etc.)

 

There are people wanting to invest in clubs out there as has been proven elsewhere...two of them begin with B and sit in the playoffs after being on their arse with just as much to offer as we do. Our hands are tied...I just hope this dance we're doing over a new stand isn't just to take us up to January 2014 for bulldozers to steam into BP. Not a penny of the council money has landed at the club yet (according to the last time I spoke to my mate in the council last month)...so that 10-yr covenent from Jan 2004 on the land still exists. Yet people think Corney is sincere and a fan like the rest of us. These people really do believe in Father Christmas and Fairies!!!

 

The conclusion is it's pointless to change the manager. As I said to one lad at the end of the Crewe game..."bang on about tactics all you like...Dickov could be the greatest tactician in the World but if them players aren't up to it to take it on board and play to it then there's not a lot PD or anyone can do. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys." It's a ride we all have to grin and bare sadly.

 

Didn't see a word on the stand from Council leader Jim McMahon in his Oldham Chron new years message today, even though other projects got a mention.

Another false dawn ?

 

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/76537/my-focus-on-a-better-future

Edited December 31, 2012 by BP1960

[oafcprozac]

Didn't see a word on the stand from Council leader Jim McMahon in his Oldham Chron new years message today, even though other projects got a mention.

Another false dawn ?

 

http://www.oldham-ch...a-better-future

 

Well we're 5 months on from the announcement and apart from Corney trying to get in flat pack form from Ikea we're nowhere nearer submitting even a planning application….