Dave_Og Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I once took a job and realised by about lunchtime on Day 2 that the firm was a basket case and I'd made a shocker of a decision. I'll be honest and say that my motivation for the thankfully brief period I was there before finding a better offer was not high because I could see no possibility of me influencing the organisation materially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, JoeP said: If HK couldn't change things, then that's the owner's fault, surely? Apart from Shez, Wellens had less awareness than any manager since about how difficult the job would be. I highly doubt people take the job now because they think they can do a good job - it's an income and they know no other club will view their record here seriously because it's a basket-case so they've nothing to lose. We're not going to agree - the manager's job was difficult enough before these owners came in, but they've taken it to a whole other level. No manager has succeeded so far working under them and I can't see that changing much in the future. Wellens showed glimpses here of the potential he had (Pompey away, Blackburn and Northampton at home), but it all went to pot as the Lemsegams took a strangle hold. Craig Davies talks about how poisonous the dressing room was due to the way the owners ran the club - it sounded like an impossible situation to manage. It's the owners fault for that and it's their fault we went down. I meant couldn’t, as in- he wasn’t tactically astute enough. You would have to be daft to not see it’s a very difficult working environment. But to absolve any manager of any responsibility is to way to far me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: I once took a job and realised by about lunchtime on Day 2 that the firm was a basket case and I'd made a shocker of a decision. I'll be honest and say that my motivation for the thankfully brief period I was there before finding a better offer was not high because I could see no possibility of me influencing the organisation materially. But you found that out after Dave. If 3 of your mates said beforehand- don’t go there Dave it’s bloody awful. And you still did, you can’t then blame your performance wholly on the shitty company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlemoor Lad Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 hours ago, LaticsPete said: To be succeeded by Gary Bowyer. Another yes man to the slaughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 hours ago, LaticsPete said: To be succeeded by Gary Bowyer. Hmmm. Not sure that’ll work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careca9 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 4 hours ago, JohnnyPimp said: My thoughts too. I can’t shake the sight of him waving Placide back to his own goal rather than attack the corner in the last few moments of the Northampton match. Looked like he was happy to see us drop (which surely wasn’t the case, but the impression I got). some of his formations in his latter stages with us were a joke. At one point I thought he was trying to get sacked. The c Davies podcast does reveal a lot but still think he should have kept us up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlemoor Lad Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 26 minutes ago, Careca9 said: some of his formations in his latter stages with us were a joke. At one point I thought he was trying to get sacked. The c Davies podcast does reveal a lot but still think he should have kept us up It would have been harder to get relegated with that squad for most managers but not our Richie. Ofcourse he was to blame and it's on his c.v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Littlemoor Lad said: It would have been harder to get relegated with that squad for most managers but not our Richie. Ofcourse he was to blame and it's on his c.v Was it Richie who shoved out Clarke on loan, or was it Abdallah, that was a monumental own goal which contributed to us getting relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, disjointed said: Was it Richie who shoved out Clarke on loan, or was it Abdallah, that was a monumental own goal which contributed to us getting relegated. And who gave us the worst 25 minutes ever seen from a “professional footballer” when Omrani got a start? As a very good midfielder not a chance in hell did Wellens make that decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlemoor Lad Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, disjointed said: Was it Richie who shoved out Clarke on loan, or was it Abdallah, that was a monumental own goal which contributed to us getting relegated. One swallow doesn't make a summer but I'm with you that Clarke should never of been allowed to leave, I'd still have him here right now, Richie was obviously out of his depth with everything going on here and that too, saw us down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott2 Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 15 hours ago, disjointed said: Was it Richie who shoved out Clarke on loan, or was it Abdallah, that was a monumental own goal which contributed to us getting relegated. It was Wellens. 100 percent. Abdallah binned Clarke in the summer of 19, but Wellens chose Gerrard over Clarke the season we got relegated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 On 3/23/2021 at 11:49 AM, JoeP said: If HK couldn't change things, then that's the owner's fault, surely? Apart from Shez, Wellens had less awareness than any manager since about how difficult the job would be. I highly doubt people take the job now because they think they can do a good job - it's an income and they know no other club will view their record here seriously because it's a basket-case so they've nothing to lose. We're not going to agree - the manager's job was difficult enough before these owners came in, but they've taken it to a whole other level. No manager has succeeded so far working under them and I can't see that changing much in the future. Wellens showed glimpses here of the potential he had (Pompey away, Blackburn and Northampton at home), but it all went to pot as the Lemsegams took a strangle hold. Craig Davies talks about how poisonous the dressing room was due to the way the owners ran the club - throw in team interference and it sounded like an impossible situation to manage. It's the owners fault for that and it's their fault we went down. Correct! Wellens showed what he was capable by putting his faith in Doyle and tearing up this division with Swindon. The best man manager in the world would've struggled to get a song out of that squad that was relegated, decimated by Chinese whispers and Machiavellian machinations towards the end. No way can the manager shoulder most of the blame for that. Some perhaps, but not all. Plenty more of Abdallah's picks and we'd have been relegated with five games to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott2 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 15 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: Correct! Wellens showed what he was capable by putting his faith in Doyle and tearing up this division with Swindon. The best man manager in the world would've struggled to get a song out of that squad that was relegated, decimated by Chinese whispers and Machiavellian machinations towards the end. No way can the manager shoulder most of the blame for that. Some perhaps, but not all. Plenty more of Abdallah's picks and we'd have been relegated with five games to play. C'mon Jamie, it wasn't difficult for any manager worth his salt to pick up one more win from that remaining set of fixtures we had. Most of the teams we were playing were already on the beach with nothing to play for (Gillingham, Southend, Donny etc) and we still came up short. As for showing what he was capable of by putting his faith in Doyle- he kept faith in Doyle when he was with us, despite Doyle only scoring something like 2 in 12. He also messed around with Jack Byrne and, like mentioned earlier, loaned out Clarke to keep Gerrard in the side. That squad we had should have been nowhere near the relegation slots despite the interference of Lemsagam (just like to point out again that I told you so BTW!) Wellens has the blood of the club on his hands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 He was clearly undermined by the circus going on all around him, but he should've been able to have recognised what was happening, put a protective bubble around the players and coaching staff and have galvanised them so that they were playing for each other and the fans. Instead, they just flaked away and, quite honestly, rather than addressing the rot that was setting in he seemed to just accept it and did nothing (or he was out of his depth). They weren't focused or motivated, and that was his job. Of course the clown and his brother were mainly to blame. I think we'd have stayed up if Corney had been working with Wellens, but the fact remains that he was unable to stop the decline. That might be because of inexperience or a reflection on his own limitations. He needed to box clever and he didn't. He also made some vital mistakes (Gerrard for Clarke - really?). I think he was a great player, a good coach but a very limited manager (for us). Hopefully he can learn from his experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 #itsnevermyfault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Say Wellens was forced to play 2 inferior players/players he didn't want (Nepmocceno and Woimbe, for example..) - that means we're effectively playing with 9 men in games, because then Wellens has two players he doesn't know what to do with. That then feeds into his tactics, because he has to accommodate these players he didn't want. I always found it bizarre that Doyle was played up front on his own, when he'd been awesome with a partner earlier in the season. Then there's the fractured dressing room - Wellens had to effectively field a team of 9 men, who basically didn't want to be there because of the owner. He didn't have a chance. Chairmen should leave the football to football people. The Lemsegams came in, threw their weight around and destroyed any modicum of stability the club had which meant relegation and then made Wellens the fall guy. Yeah, Wellens could have resigned, but how many of us would really give up a pay packet just because our boss is a twat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 13 minutes ago, JoeP said: Say Wellens was forced to play 2 inferior players/players he didn't want (Nepmocceno and Woimbe, for example..) - that means we're effectively playing with 9 men in games, because then Wellens has two players he doesn't know what to do with. That then feeds into his tactics, because he has to accommodate these players he didn't want. I always found it bizarre that Doyle was played up front on his own, when he'd been awesome with a partner earlier in the season. Then there's the fractured dressing room - Wellens had to effectively field a team of 9 men, who basically didn't want to be there because of the owner. He didn't have a chance. Chairmen should leave the football to football people. The Lemsegams came in, threw their weight around and destroyed any modicum of stability the club had which meant relegation and then made Wellens the fall guy. Yeah, Wellens could have resigned, but how many of us would really give up a pay packet just because our boss is a twat? You’re making things up there Joe. ‘Forced to play Nepo and Wim. . For example’ Eh? I don’t remember Davies saying once that Mo told wellens who to play. He said some got paid on time, some didn’t. They messed him around over with his contract, he dug fane out in front of everybody. He offered bonuses to the players, then reneged. But not once did he say wellens was forced to play their picks. You’re also very conveniently forgetting the 5/6 British signings made in Jan who were clearly wellens picks, he also said at the time he moved Clarke on to free up wages elsewhere. He moaned and moaned about talking to Matt mills, and he agreed to come, but AL wouldn’t sanction it on top of the signings he’d already given. ALMO are clearly clowns, and have taken more control over the football side since his departure. But in wellens time, they were more supportive and we still had a manager not a head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 1 minute ago, League one forever said: You’re making things up there Joe. ‘Forced to play Nepo and Wim. . For example’ Eh? I don’t remember Davies saying once that Mo told wellens who to play. He said some got paid on time, some didn’t. They messed him around over with his contract, he dug fane out in front of everybody. He offered bonuses to the players, then reneged. But not once did he say wellens was forced to play their picks. You’re also very conveniently forgetting the 5/6 British signings made in Jan who were clearly wellens picks, he also said at the time he moved Clarke on to free up wages elsewhere. He moaned and moaned about talking to Matt mills, and he agreed to come, but AL wouldn’t sanction it on top of the signings he’d already given. ALMO are clearly clowns, and have taken more control over the football side since his departure. But in wellens time, they were more supportive and we still had a manager not a head coach. So you don't think team interference went on? Yeah, Wellens was allowed to make a lot of his own signings. Pointless having them though, if he's not allowed to play them how and when he sees fit in a poisonous atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Lee Sinnott2 said: C'mon Jamie, it wasn't difficult for any manager worth his salt to pick up one more win from that remaining set of fixtures we had. Most of the teams we were playing were already on the beach with nothing to play for (Gillingham, Southend, Donny etc) and we still came up short. As for showing what he was capable of by putting his faith in Doyle- he kept faith in Doyle when he was with us, despite Doyle only scoring something like 2 in 12. He also messed around with Jack Byrne and, like mentioned earlier, loaned out Clarke to keep Gerrard in the side. That squad we had should have been nowhere near the relegation slots despite the interference of Lemsagam (just like to point out again that I told you so BTW!) Wellens has the blood of the club on his hands... I don't think we're disagreeing about the overall issue (the Lemsagams) are we? But my point was that it was Wellens who gave us a fighting chance right up to the end of the season with a fantastic run before Christmas. He deserves to be cut a little slack for that alone. I share the frustration about him not being able to get us over the line in the last few games. It, along with the treatment of Byrne is about as much as can be levelled at him. Not so much blood on his hands, but a far less tabloidy assessment IMO. FWIW I agree; the squad was more than good enough. In fact it was much better than half the squads we've had in the entire two decades of League One. Just because you knew the Lemsagams were going to be a massive hinderance doesn't avoid or gloss over that as the core reason why we were relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh_latics Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Chasing a win to stay up, Wellens brought Kundai Benyu on for the last 15 minutes. He was lucky he wasn't made to find his own way home from Northampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, JoeP said: So you don't think team interference went on? Yeah, Wellens was allowed to make a lot of his own signings. Pointless having them though, if he's not allowed to play them how and when he sees fit in a poisonous atmosphere. Do I think ALMO looked at a team sheet and explicitly said- change that, these two must play. No I don’t. Do I think ALMO tried to influence him, without a doubt. I’ve also never argued that ALMO aren’t the root cause of a lot of it, but Wellens must shoulder some responsibility. Not all. Some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 1 minute ago, josh_latics said: Chasing a win to stay up, Wellens brought Kundai Benyu on for the last 15 minutes. He was lucky he wasn't made to find his own way home from Northampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 34 minutes ago, League one forever said: Do I think ALMO looked at a team sheet and explicitly said- change that, these two must play. No I don’t. Do I think ALMO tried to influence him, without a doubt. I’ve also never argued that ALMO aren’t the root cause of a lot of it, but Wellens must shoulder some responsibility. Not all. Some. So Wellens chose to pick some of ALMO's players ahead of his own signings? We'll never know for certain if that was through force, influence or off his own back, but it seems strange to me, especially given the numerous accounts (particularly from Shez, Scholes and Wild) about the way the owners operate. As I say we're not going to agree. I don't hold Wellens responsible and I'd have him back as manager under competent owners. He went on to achieve a promotion with Swindon and win the EFL trophy with Salford, while we've dropped and settled a full division below where we were when the Lemsegams took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, JoeP said: So Wellens chose to pick some of ALMO's players ahead of his own signings? We'll never know for certain if that was through force, influence or off his own back, but it seems strange to me, especially given the numerous accounts (particularly from Shez, Scholes and Wild) about the way the owners operate. As I say we're not going to agree. I don't hold Wellens responsible and I'd have him back as manager under competent owners. He went on to achieve a promotion with Swindon and win the EFL trophy with Salford, while we've dropped and settled a full division below where we were when the Lemsegams took over. I’m not looking for you to agree with me. I know we see things very differently on the issue, and that’s fine. Swindon and Salford have got nothing to do with his time with us. Whilst he was our manager - we got relegated with the one of the best squads we’d had. No amount of debate will change that, and it’s on his CV whether he likes it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 2 hours ago, josh_latics said: Chasing a win to stay up, Wellens brought Kundai Benyu on for the last 15 minutes. Modern football really is a strange beast - he's now playing for Vestri in the Icelandic first division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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