Tonight

[maximus1267]

16 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

Personally, I think it's imperative that we maintain our league status. The Oldham Metropolitan Borough (OMB) is quite different to Stockport Metropolitan Borough (SMB). SMB has a significantly higher population and its demographics provide a distinct advantage. They have a far bigger pool of "potential fans" to draw from and, if I am really honest, I think County has always had a better affinity with its borough's population than we ever have.

 

If we went into non league, I have no doubt there would be some really nice, keen and eager fans who would gather round to steady the ship initially and then try to re-build but, ultimately, I think we would rapidly disappear into obscurity.

 

A dilapidated ground on the wrong side of town would, in itself, severely hamper us. Where on Earth would the money come from to even sustain the infrastructure never mind improve it? 

 

A wealthy owner, with genuine motives and realistic ambition, is the only thing that will save us in my opinion.

I dont mean to sound like I disagree here but can you please clarify a couple of points which I have please, just so I can understand your thinking, which might well be educated.

....Population wise, Stockport has approx 60k more than Oldham, But Oldham has a larger area.

Surely in my mind with a population of almost 240k in Oldham alone, this has to be a huge potential, and just like Stockport we are surround by other boroughs of manchester, cheshire, derbyshire and west yorkshire which could be tapped into with the proper vision.

... I take when you say demographics you are referring to stockport having a slightly larger white population, approx 6% higher than Oldham ?

Like I said I dont disagree but I find it hard to understand how a succesful Oldham with good honest owners with a real vision and plan couldnt attract a decent crowd. 

 

[League one forever]

5 hours ago, JoeP said:

 

Well yeah, but I really don't think getting relegated out of the league is the way to go about getting that. I'd rather the revolution started NOW before it gets to that stage. 

 

Stockport have had their two promotions, following their two relegations - why do we have to have the two relegations before it turns round? And what makes you think it will turn around? Why does being run better have to mean relegation?

 

It's going to be fucking hard staying up this season, but a lot easier than dropping into the abyss and having to claw our way back, whoever the owners are...

 

I’ll say it again, no one wants relegation or is advocating it. No one. However it’s the only way he will sell.
 

Would you pay him and Blitz 12 million for the badge and ground????  
 

Why do you keep asking for things you can’t have? Id rather we were better run NOW. . . but. . er. . we’re not- and show no sign of doing so. Relegation would be awful, and we might never come back. But at the very least if AL sold the club could be something to be proud of- which is slimmest of pickings- but that’s where we are. 

[maximus1267]

2 minutes ago, League one forever said:

 

I’ll say it again, no one wants relegation or is advocating it. No one. However it’s the only way he will sell.
 

Would you pay him and Blitz 12 million for the badge and ground????  
 

Why do you keep asking for things you can’t have? Id rather we were better run NOW. . . but. . er. . we’re not- and show no sign of doing so. Relegation would be awful, and we might never come back. But at the very least if AL sold the club could be something to be proud of- which is slimmest of pickings- but that’s where we are. 

I keep reading this theory of AL will only sell if we go out of the league.

Playing devils advocate here, wouldnt we be even less appealling as a purchase ?

Not saying you are wrong or I am right, just not sure being relegated will make him sell.

[League one forever]

Just now, maximus1267 said:

I keep reading this theory of AL will only sell if we go out of the league.

Playing devils advocate here, wouldnt we be even less appealling as a purchase ?

Not saying you are wrong or I am right, just not sure being relegated will make him sell.

How’s he covering the loss of EFL money Maxi? It’s a lot of money, and it’s clear he doesn’t want to put a penny more in. 
 

Even a conference side needs significant investment- and he is isn’t prepared to pay- so we either keep sliding into the abyss or he sells. 

[maximus1267]

12 minutes ago, League one forever said:

How’s he covering the loss of EFL money Maxi? It’s a lot of money, and it’s clear he doesn’t want to put a penny more in. 
 

Even a conference side needs significant investment- and he is isn’t prepared to pay- so we either keep sliding into the abyss or he sells. 

So do you believe we would be better going out of the football league to give us a better chance of AL selling up ?

 

Will going out of the league increase our chance of better ownership ?

 

Would you be happy to stay out of the football league for an indefinite time if it meant we had a better owner ?

 

If we can stay up and still put pressure on him to sell would that not be the better and safer option ?

 

I can only debate and understand this in a simplified manner as I have no facts whatsoever regarding what is going on within the club, other than what I read on here, heresay and other platforms.

 

So by keeping it simple and not overthinking it, I genuinely believe dropping into non league would be a disaster.

 

 

 

 

[League one forever]

1 minute ago, maximus1267 said:

So do you believe we would be better going out of the football league to give us a better chance of AL selling up ?

 

Will going out of the league increase our chance of better ownership ?

 

Would you be happy to stay out of the football league for an indefinite time if it meant we had a better owner ?

 

If we can stay up and still put pressure on him to sell would that not be the better and safer option ?

 

I can only debate and understand this in a simplified manner as I have no facts whatsoever regarding what is going on within the club, other than what I read on here, heresay and other platforms.

 

So by keeping it simple and not overthinking it, I genuinely believe dropping into non league would be a disaster.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. 
 

Who knows- but they can’t be any worse than AL, and by that point what have we got to lose? 
 

Yes- someone who actually wants to be here would be lovely. 
 

Of course- but that’s fantasy really because he’ll want to much while we’re a league club. 

[maximus1267]

Just now, League one forever said:

 

Yes. 
 

Who knows- but they can’t be any worse than AL, and by that point what have we got to lose? 
 

Yes- someone who actually wants to be here would be lovely. 
 

Of course- but that’s fantasy really because he’ll want to much while we’re a league club. 

We all want the same outcome, not sure we will ever all agree how we get there, but thats fine. 

If we do go down I hope you prove me wrong and vice versa

 

[Pidge]

10 minutes ago, maximus1267 said:

So do you believe we would be better going out of the football league to give us a better chance of AL selling up ?

 

Will going out of the league increase our chance of better ownership ?

 

Would you be happy to stay out of the football league for an indefinite time if it meant we had a better owner ?

 

If we can stay up and still put pressure on him to sell would that not be the better and safer option ?

 

I can only debate and understand this in a simplified manner as I have no facts whatsoever regarding what is going on within the club, other than what I read on here, heresay and other platforms.

 

So by keeping it simple and not overthinking it, I genuinely believe dropping into non league would be a disaster.

 

 

 

 

There are some of us who believe AL will just let things go on as now if we remain in League 2.  That he will not sell.  The evidence of the last couple of years seems to back up that view.
 

That is why I say relegation is probably the only thing which will trigger AL to get rid of the club.

[Dave_Og]

1 hour ago, Pidge said:

There are some of us who believe AL will just let things go on as now if we remain in League 2.  That he will not sell.  The evidence of the last couple of years seems to back up that view.
 

That is why I say relegation is probably the only thing which will trigger AL to get rid of the club.

But it's just a guess

[wiseowl]

4 hours ago, maximus1267 said:

I dont mean to sound like I disagree here but can you please clarify a couple of points which I have please, just so I can understand your thinking, which might well be educated.

....Population wise, Stockport has approx 60k more than Oldham, But Oldham has a larger area.

Surely in my mind with a population of almost 240k in Oldham alone, this has to be a huge potential, and just like Stockport we are surround by other boroughs of manchester, cheshire, derbyshire and west yorkshire which could be tapped into with the proper vision.

... I take when you say demographics you are referring to stockport having a slightly larger white population, approx 6% higher than Oldham ?

Like I said I dont disagree but I find it hard to understand how a succesful Oldham with good honest owners with a real vision and plan couldnt attract a decent crowd. 

Hi maximus - the most reliable stats are from the 2011 census (the 2021 will obviously bring us right up to speed). As you correctly state, Stockport then had circa 60,000 more people living in its borough than Oldham. With regard to "white population" though your figures are inaccurate. Stockport's white population was circa 92%, Oldham's was circa 77.5%. In fact, Oldham's non-white population saw a distinct growth from 13.9% in 2001 to 22.5% in 2011 (from memory the biggest % increase seen in any borough nationally). 

 

Without anyone arguing, let's just accept that, by and large, the non-white population do not support Latics (and let's say it's the same at County). That means that Stockport has a pool of circa 260,000 potential  fans to draw from - Oldham has a pool of circa 174,000 to draw from (and I accept I have not factored age into it - but the baseline is the same for both clubs i.e. babies don't tend to go to football!).

 

Hope that makes sense and clarifies what I was saying.

 

IF Latics could ever find a way to attract support from the non-white population (in our Borough's case the majority being from Pakistani/Bangladeshi backgrounds) it would be helpful because, as the demographics are developing, we will have an ever decreasing pool of fans to draw from in the future.

[GlossopLatic]

33 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

But it's just a guess

 

Which is really all that is so the notion that we need to get relegated for him to sell is based on no real evidence at all.

[OneSizeFitz]

2 hours ago, League one forever said:

How’s he covering the loss of EFL money Maxi? It’s a lot of money, and it’s clear he doesn’t want to put a penny more in. 
 

Even a conference side needs significant investment- and he is isn’t prepared to pay- so we either keep sliding into the abyss or he sells. 

 

If he didn't want to put a penny more in, why wouldn't he be looking to sell now whilst the club is worth more than it would be in non-league? 

[League one forever]

4 minutes ago, OneSizeFitz said:

 

If he didn't want to put a penny more in, why wouldn't he be looking to sell now whilst the club is worth more than it would be in non-league? 

Because he wants 6 million for a badge with no assets. 
 

Would you pay that? 

[OneSizeFitz]

3 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Because he wants 6 million for a badge with no assets. 
 

Would you pay that? 

 

But then surely he must be willing to continue to pump money in until someone comes along who will pay that?

 

If his biggest concern was not losing anymore money, he'd look to sell ASAP - not wait until we'd been relegated. 

 

I think he still wants to own a football club. 

 

 

[League one forever]

1 minute ago, OneSizeFitz said:

 

But then surely he must be willing to continue to pump money in until someone comes along who will pay that?

 

If his biggest concern was not losing anymore money, he'd look to sell ASAP - not wait until we'd been relegated. 

 

I think he still wants to own a football club. 

 

 

He isn’t pumping money in. 
 

Look at the squad.
 

We have a Skeleton staff. 
 

The ground maintenance is non existent. 

 

We have an EFL emergency loan. 
 

It’s clear as day he isn’t putting any of his money in.  It’s being run into the ground. 
 

You are correct when you say we’re worth more as a league club, but the badge is not worth 6 million with no assets and never will be. So any offer would be less that what he has put in, and he would lose money. Which it seems it’s unacceptable to him. Get relegated and he’ll get even less- if anything. (Admin is more likely IMO)  So his biggest concern is how much money he’s willing to lose IMO, and he’s still here because he doesn’t want to give it away or admit he’s spunked 5/6 mill up the wall- which from his point of view I can understand. 

 

 

 

 

[mick26]

Probably sell Vaughan, Couto, Simms and Bahamboula in January and then sell for what's on offer!

(After getting Simms under contract).

[Andy b]

10 hours ago, wiseowl said:

Hi maximus - the most reliable stats are from the 2011 census (the 2021 will obviously bring us right up to speed). As you correctly state, Stockport then had circa 60,000 more people living in its borough than Oldham. With regard to "white population" though your figures are inaccurate. Stockport's white population was circa 92%, Oldham's was circa 77.5%. In fact, Oldham's non-white population saw a distinct growth from 13.9% in 2001 to 22.5% in 2011 (from memory the biggest % increase seen in any borough nationally). 

 

Without anyone arguing, let's just accept that, by and large, the non-white population do not support Latics (and let's say it's the same at County). That means that Stockport has a pool of circa 260,000 potential  fans to draw from - Oldham has a pool of circa 174,000 to draw from (and I accept I have not factored age into it - but the baseline is the same for both clubs i.e. babies don't tend to go to football!).

 

Hope that makes sense and clarifies what I was saying.

 

IF Latics could ever find a way to attract support from the non-white population (in our Borough's case the majority being from Pakistani/Bangladeshi backgrounds) it would be helpful because, as the demographics are developing, we will have an ever decreasing pool of fans to draw from in the future.

The populations wealth but more importantly the town’s sense of self identity and whether it’s population associate with and have an affinity for the town is a key determinant of whether the population buy into the club. It goes a long way to explaining this clubs decline. 

 

 

[Worcester Owl]

The argument over whether AL is more likely to sell if we go out of the FL seems to be going round in circles.

 

For me, it's very simple.

 

I don't want AL as owner.

I want us to stay in the FL. Relegation would be a disaster.

Nobody has a clue on what AL's intentions are, or how much he wants for selling up. Nobody.

Given the complete uncertainty around AL's plans on the one hand, and the certainty that relegation would be a disaster on the other, anyone who thinks relegation would trigger AL's exit and the revival of our club is, I'm afraid, irrational.

[Pidge]

11 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

But it's just a guess

An opinion!

[wiseowl]

1 hour ago, Andy b said:

The populations wealth but more importantly the town’s sense of self identity and whether it’s population associate with and have an affinity for the town is a key determinant of whether the population buy into the club. It goes a long way to explaining this clubs decline. 

 

Agree Andy - the "affinity" issue was something I mentioned in my original post - in Stockport's advantage in my opinion.

[Dave_Og]

1 hour ago, Pidge said:

An opinion!

One of the great mores of the modern age is that 'everyone is entitled to an opinion'. Indeed so, but an opinion based on rational thought processes is infinitely more valuable than those based on sticking a finger in the air.

[League one forever]

1 hour ago, Dave_Og said:

One of the great mores of the modern age is that 'everyone is entitled to an opinion'. Indeed so, but an opinion based on rational thought processes is infinitely more valuable than those based on sticking a finger in the air.

Oh Dave. . You’re so wise. 
 

Isn’t it funny how one opinion (yours) is rational and the opinion you don’t agree with is sticking a finger in the air.
 

When you can look past your own filters and see another perspective we can have debate, until then it’s like talking to brick wall. 
 

A ‘rational’ brick wall. 

 

[League one forever]

2 hours ago, Worcester Owl said:

The argument over whether AL is more likely to sell if we go out of the FL seems to be going round in circles.

 

For me, it's very simple.

 

I don't want AL as owner.

I want us to stay in the FL. Relegation would be a disaster.

Nobody has a clue on what AL's intentions are, or how much he wants for selling up. Nobody.

Given the complete uncertainty around AL's plans on the one hand, and the certainty that relegation would be a disaster on the other, anyone who thinks relegation would trigger AL's exit and the revival of our club is, I'm afraid, irrational.

 

 

So not that simple then. 

[Dave_Og]

11 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Oh Dave. . You’re so wise. 
 

Isn’t it funny how one opinion (yours) is rational and the opinion you don’t agree with is sticking a finger in the air.
 

When you can look past your own filters and see another perspective we can have debate, until then it’s like talking to brick wall. 
 

A ‘rational’ brick wall. 

 

There seem to be some people who are convinced that relegation makes a sale more likely. No idea how anyone concludes that. 

[maximus1267]

Just now, Dave_Og said:

There seem to be some people who are convinced that relegation makes a sale more likely. No idea how anyone concludes that. 

This is my thicko basic take on this idea behind the logic behind this mindset.

 

Club will be worth less.

Al will ask for less.

AL will want to sell, more so than he does currently.

The club will lose an amount of payments.