Unsworth

[Dave_Og]

12 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

It's more accurate to say if you don't give anyone any time you're much less likely to find a Joe Royle again.

Richie Wellens shortest two managerial stints have ended in relegation.   His other, longer, two have both ended/will end in promotion.  I've no idea if Unsworth is the right man and fully accept there is a lack of evidence to suggest that he is but I'd rather know for sure than see him succeed somewhere else.

[Steve_R]

13 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Richie Wellens shortest two managerial stints have ended in relegation.   His other, longer, two have both ended/will end in promotion.  I've no idea if Unsworth is the right man and fully accept there is a lack of evidence to suggest that he is but I'd rather know for sure than see him succeed somewhere else.

He lasted longer here than he did at Salford, and didn’t get relegated with them

[JoeP]

22 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Richie Wellens shortest two managerial stints have ended in relegation.   His other, longer, two have both ended/will end in promotion.  I've no idea if Unsworth is the right man and fully accept there is a lack of evidence to suggest that he is but I'd rather know for sure than see him succeed somewhere else.

 

Wellens showed signs in his short tenure here that he might have something about him.  Unsworth hasn't.

[Dave_Og]

16 minutes ago, Steve_R said:

He lasted longer here than he did at Salford, and didn’t get relegated with them

Oops, meant Doncaster.  Principle's there though although, like I say, I have no real view on Unsworth

[JoeP]

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

It's more accurate to say if you don't give anyone any time you're much less likely to find a Joe Royle again.

 

Think it's probably most accurate to say we'll never find a Joe Royle again, so stop the comparisons!

[nzlatic]

23 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Think it's probably most accurate to say we'll never find a Joe Royle again, so stop the comparisons!

Ok, so an exact replica of Joe Royle is unlikely of course with getting to cup finals and semis and promotion to premier league. But it's the theory that's the key, not the specifics.  Giving managers time and resources may unearth a succesful one who would otherwise have been binned off and then go on to have success somewhere else.

 

[JoeP]

41 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Ok, so an exact replica of Joe Royle is unlikely of course with getting to cup finals and semis and promotion to premier league. But it's the theory that's the key, not the specifics.  Giving managers time and resources may unearth a succesful one who would otherwise have been binned off and then go on to have success somewhere else.

 

 

Could be a bloody expensive experiment if you chuck time and resources at someone and they turn out not to be successful..

 

I couldn't be more in favour of consistency, but while instant success is unreasonable, something - anything - to suggest a manager is worth time and resources is important.  I think the infrastructure that's been put in place at the club might be masking how well Unsworth is doing.  Would a Darren Kelly, Keith Curle or even Selim done any worse this season?

 

I'm happy to take the risk of him being successful elsewhere!

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by JoeP

[Dave_Og]

5 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Could be a bloody expensive experiment if you chuck time and resources and someone and they turn out not to be successful..

 

I couldn't be more in favour of consistency, but while instant success is unreasonable, something - anything - to suggest a manager is worth time and resources is important.  I think the infrastructure that's been put in place at the club might be masking how well Unsworth is doing.  Would a Darren Kelly, Keith Curle or even Selim done any worse this season?

 

I'm happy to take the risk of him being successful elsewhere!

 

While I'm not suggesting Darren Kelly was a good appointment he is in a senior role at a higher level

[Littlemoor Lad]

1 minute ago, JoeP said:

 

Could be a bloody expensive experiment if you chuck time and resources and someone and they turn out not to be successful..

 

I couldn't be more in favour of consistency, but while instant success is unreasonable, something - anything - to suggest a manager is worth time and resources is important.  I think the infrastructure that's been put in place at the club might be masking how well Unsworth is doing.  Would a Darren Kelly, Keith Curle or even Selim done any worse this season?

 

I'm happy to take the risk of him being successful elsewhere!

Unsworth has been given free reign here and has obviously cost Frank and co a mint with all his sidekicks and signing's

Trouble is, we're still way off in terms of matching most of the smaller club's where it matters most.

If he can hit the ground running from the very start of the new season, all well and good but he's already used up 8 of his 9 lives as far as I'm concerned and a decision would have to be made sooner rather than later, in order that we're not marooned here any longer than is necessary.

[JoeP]

10 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

While I'm not suggesting Darren Kelly was a good appointment he is in a senior role at a higher level

 

For now!

 

I mean Unsworth surely has higher pedigree managing the Under 23s at Everton - doesn't mean either should be entrusted with managing a first-team..

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by JoeP

[Dave_Og]

9 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

For now!

 

I mean Unsworth surely has higher pedigree managing the Under 23s at Everton - doesn't mean either should be entrusted with managing a first-team..

 

 

Kelly must be a man in demand as he has twice resigned his role to move to jobs that, presumably, were lined up

[JoeP]

3 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Kelly must be a man in demand as he has twice resigned his role to move to jobs that, presumably, were lined up

 

Fair play to him.  Has he been the reason behind success at other clubs, then?  I haven't followed his career post-Latics, to be honest..

[TheBigDog]

Is it not time now to ease back on the Unsworth debate? 

 

I think we have established that:

1. He is not going anywhere
2. He has the backing of the board
3. He has a decent support infrastructure with his assistants John Ebbrell and Francis Jeffers plus a head of recruitment in Steve Thompson
4. He will be allowed to bring in a number of new (better) players for next season
5. There will be a significant number of players moving on from the club
6. He will have a B team set up to assist with giving squad players competitive game time

With the above in mind, surely the debate should now be parked until early next season? We all have our opinions on the relative merits of the manager (with one exception in @Dave_Og) and all have by now expressed that opinion - so maybe lets park it for a while?

[nzlatic]

6 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

Is it not time now to ease back on the Unsworth debate? 

 

I think we have established that:

1. He is not going anywhere
2. He has the backing of the board
3. He has a decent support infrastructure with his assistants John Ebbrell and Francis Jeffers plus a head of recruitment in Steve Thompson
4. He will be allowed to bring in a number of new (better) players for next season
5. There will be a significant number of players moving on from the club
6. He will have a B team set up to assist with giving squad players competitive game time

With the above in mind, surely the debate should now be parked until early next season? We all have our opinions on the relative merits of the manager (with one exception in @Dave_Og) and all have by now expressed that opinion - so maybe lets park it for a while?

I agree. I think also that Frank's survive/consolidate/grow matches up to the 3 year deal they have and as long as we're looking in line with that plan that the coaching team won't be going anywhere.

 

Survive - this season - league position not that important as long as we don't go down. Fix off field issues, start changing the squad etc.

Consolidate - next season - top 7.

Grow - 3rd season - automatic promotion push if still in NL.

 

That'll be flexible, so if we're not top 7 or threatening next year he'll probably be gone. Or if we're top 3 they'd probably look to invest in playing squad to try and go up by automatic in season 2.

 

But as much as supporters want to look to short term results or performances as indicators to whether he should stay or be sacked, if as a club we're broadly following that path I think he's here for the duration irrespective of how free flowing or attacking the football is.

[JoeP]

14 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

Is it not time now to ease back on the Unsworth debate? 

 

Possibly, but I've got to do something while I'm ignoring the kids over the Easter holidays...

[Littlemoor Lad]

36 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

Is it not time now to ease back on the Unsworth debate? 

 

I think we have established that:

1. He is not going anywhere
2. He has the backing of the board
3. He has a decent support infrastructure with his assistants John Ebbrell and Francis Jeffers plus a head of recruitment in Steve Thompson
4. He will be allowed to bring in a number of new (better) players for next season
5. There will be a significant number of players moving on from the club
6. He will have a B team set up to assist with giving squad players competitive game time

With the above in mind, surely the debate should now be parked until early next season? We all have our opinions on the relative merits of the manager (with one exception in @Dave_Og) and all have by now expressed that opinion - so maybe lets park it for a while?

I'll say no more on the subject but woe betide he doesn't have us challenging next season

[yarddog73]

43 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

Is it not time now to ease back on the Unsworth debate? 

 

I think we have established that:

1. He is not going anywhere
2. He has the backing of the board
3. He has a decent support infrastructure with his assistants John Ebbrell and Francis Jeffers plus a head of recruitment in Steve Thompson
4. He will be allowed to bring in a number of new (better) players for next season
5. There will be a significant number of players moving on from the club
6. He will have a B team set up to assist with giving squad players competitive game time

With the above in mind, surely the debate should now be parked until early next season? We all have our opinions on the relative merits of the manager (with one exception in @Dave_Og) and all have by now expressed that opinion - so maybe lets park it for a while?

You mean we've thrashed Scunthorpe and everything is rosy again?, we can park anything we want up but the biggest issue we have as a club is the manager, well worth debating in my opinion as I don't want the same shite next season and that's what we are going to get.

[LaticsPete]

56 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

Is it not time now to ease back on the Unsworth debate? 

 

I think we have established that:

1. He is not going anywhere
2. He has the backing of the board
3. He has a decent support infrastructure with his assistants John Ebbrell and Francis Jeffers plus a head of recruitment in Steve Thompson
4. He will be allowed to bring in a number of new (better) players for next season
5. There will be a significant number of players moving on from the club
6. He will have a B team set up to assist with giving squad players competitive game time

With the above in mind, surely the debate should now be parked until early next season? We all have our opinions on the relative merits of the manager (with one exception in @Dave_Og) and all have by now expressed that opinion - so maybe lets park it for a while?

I agree. End of September/ early October has to be decision time, new signings on board, etc.

Until then I hope he uses the remaining five games to give a couple of fringe players a run out and gets results that make us an attraction proposition for potential signings 

Edited April 11, 2023 by LaticsPete

[Worcester Owl]

5 hours ago, oafc1955 said:

The usual suspects on here will call Unsworth out whatever he does!

 

Royle had 5 or 6 lean years until we enjoyed success and our best ever period!

 

Alex Ferguson, arguably the greatest premiership manager ever was very nearly sacked at OT!

 

Let’s cut Unsworth some slack for goodness sake….we all want ‘instant’ success but it very rarely happens in reality!

I understand your point and yes chopping and changing managers rarely ends well unless you're a Chelsea and even they may be coming unstuck.

 

It's clear that Unsworth has made us hard to beat, the odd trouncing/no-show aside - 13 defeats in his 33 league games is at least something, but of course there have been too many draws alongside that to get us anywhere near a promotion challenge. As others have said, he is here for the time being - this season is one of finding our feet, and the pre-season with a chance of shipping players in and out will be crucial. My worry is that if he carries on trying to grind out results with a safety first approach it will be a really hard watch. I'm also in the camp that we have to be top 7 after 10 games (and stay there!) otherwise he'll have to go. We have to have a serious crack at promotion next season.

[TheBigDog]

23 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

You mean we've thrashed Scunthorpe and everything is rosy again?, we can park anything we want up but the biggest issue we have as a club is the manager, well worth debating in my opinion as I don't want the same shite next season and that's what we are going to get.

No - I mean that this has been done to death now and simply repeating the same old argument is not really adding anything new to the debate. It can start again in a few months time 

[mcfluff1985]

People need to remember he's been very limited in who he can bring in mid season as well. Let's see what he does in the summer where loads of ours are out of contract and can be binned. 

[OAFCLongsuffeting]

9 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

People need to remember he's been very limited in who he can bring in mid season as well. Let's see what he does in the summer where loads of ours are out of contract and can be binned. 

not sure that:

 

Hudson

Rooney

Chapman

Clarke

Green

Reid

Nuttall

Abrahams

Kitching

Yarney

Sambou

Peck

 

can be called “very limited” he’s signed a full team 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by OAFCLongsuffeting

[mcfluff1985]

14 minutes ago, OAFCLongsuffeting said:

not sure that:

 

Hudson

Rooney

Chapman

Clarke

Green

Reid

Nuttall

Abrahams

Kitching

Yarney

Sambou

Peck

 

can be called “very limited” he’s signed a full team 

 

 

Right. Not sure you get what I mean. I said limited in who. Not limited in number. Easier to sign better players you want at the end of the season rather than mid season. Sure, you can sign some but not got your pick like you do in the summer. Sure they've got people they wanted lined up

[oafcmetty]

Just now, mcfluff1985 said:

Right. Not sure you get what I mean. I said limited in who. Not limited in number. Easier to sign better players you want at the end of the season rather than mid season. Sure, you can sign some but not got your pick like you do in the summer. Sure they've got people they wanted lined up

Limited in talent at any rate

[mcfluff1985]

1 minute ago, oafcmetty said:

Limited in talent at any rate

Better than some dross we started the season with