League one forever Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, TheBigDog said: If we lose but have put in the effort, then I would still stay to applaud. If we lose and have played poorly then I just want to get out of the ground as quickly as possible. It’s fair to say though, that a win, however it comes, is still to be celebrated I’m obviously not as fair minded as you, no way am I clapping a gallant loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, League one forever said: I’m obviously not as fair minded as you, no way am I clapping a gallant loss. If they make an effort then I do I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, nzlatic said: I think most of that is guesswork, assumption or what you've pieced together from bits online to back up your position. It could be pointed out that Unsworth won 2 premier league youth titles. You're also seemingly discounting the possibility that the board might have identified the right sort of core skills in him and decided that with on the job learning, guidance and support from the board and given sufficient time, he might improve and deliver results. Which is also guesswork... I don't doubt that the board made the appointment with the best of intentions, but the fact is no other club has seen anything to convince them that he's up to senior management. Combine that with the article about his time at Everton (written by someone with a neutral perspective, I would think) and his performance here so far and the concerns stack up. You never know, if we throw enough money at him, maybe he will turn it around. I just think a better manager will mean the project moves forward faster for less money.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 9 hours ago, League one forever said: Good post Baz. Yeah, if you are of a mind to boo and chant negative stuff the one thing you can’t say is- come and clap us for booing you. I think most fair minded folk, clap the wins with the players. And trudge off in a sulk with the losses, not wanting/expecting to interact with players. Yes, I mean it's usually a vocal minority that want to "have it out" with the players at full-time if it's been a bad day. However, the only time I can think of where the players and management have actively not interacted with the fans at full-time is at Crewe under David Dunn, when it was particularly toxic. I just think it's the right thing to do. Peter Clarke of the current crop seems to see it that way to. He doesn't seem hide or be put off by the abuse he might get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, JoeP said: Yes, I mean it's usually a vocal minority that want to "have it out" with the players at full-time if it's been a bad day. However, the only time I can think of where the players and management have actively not interacted with the fans at full-time is at Crewe under David Dunn, when it was particularly toxic. I just think it's the right thing to do. Peter Clarke of the current crop seems to see it that way to. He doesn't seem hide or be put off by the abuse he might get. It would piss me off if we won and they didn’t come over, because I want to celebrate with them. But like I’ve said I couldn’t care less when we lose. Your point seems to be more moralistic, as in they have a duty to come over no matter what. I don’t feel that strongly about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, League one forever said: It would piss me off if we won and they didn’t come over, because I want to celebrate with them. But like I’ve said I couldn’t care less when we lose. Your point seems to be more moralistic, as in they have a duty to come over no matter what. I don’t feel that strongly about it. Yep, fair enough. I think I'm probably in the minority! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 43 minutes ago, JoeP said: Which is also guesswork... I don't doubt that the board made the appointment with the best of intentions, but the fact is no other club has seen anything to convince them that he's up to senior management. Combine that with the article about his time at Everton (written by someone with a neutral perspective, I would think) and his performance here so far and the concerns stack up. You never know, if we throw enough money at him, maybe he will turn it around. I just think a better manager will mean the project moves forward faster for less money.. Which is why I used the word "might", rather than talk in absolute certainties. On your last line - that is ultimately the judgement call the board has to make. Have they got it wrong or do they believe it will come good. For me, I'll leave that up to them to get right rather than waste my energy thinking about it too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 What he did or didn't do at Everton is a red herring for me as that job has little relevance to the one he is doing now. You'd imagine plenty of successful managers have been turned down for jobs at some point in their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, deyres42 said: What he did or didn't do at Everton is a red herring for me as that job has little relevance to the one he is doing now. You'd imagine plenty of successful managers have been turned down for jobs at some point in their careers. By every club they've applied to? Over a thirteen year period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, JoeP said: By every club they've applied to? Over a thirteen year period? To be fair, didn’t he say he’d turned down offers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, League one forever said: To be fair, didn’t he say he’d turned down offers? Oxford for one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 25 minutes ago, JoeP said: By every club they've applied to? Over a thirteen year period? Can't say I've followed it that closely but can only recall him being linked with Preston and Oxford in recent times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, League one forever said: To be fair, didn’t he say he’d turned down offers? Kind of mixed messages on that one. Turned down offers apparently, but then in the Athletic article: says this: “A lot of people have asked why I’ve dropped down to the fifth tier but I don’t see it like that. I had five or six opportunities. I always felt like I was pushing it and maybe it was me driving the talks, but here I felt wanted straight away. Sounds like there were some initial enquiries rather than offers, but he was more keen than they were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 29 minutes ago, League one forever said: To be fair, didn’t he say he’d turned down offers? He turned down jobs in Ireland, didn't he...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 23 minutes ago, oafcmetty said: Oxford for one I'm sorry, what? He turned down L1 Oxford but was happy to come to Vauxhall Conference side Oldham Athletic...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 17 hours ago, nzlatic said: Is it basic bog standard stuff though? I mean, yeah the paying people on time and not being total twats to players and fans is the basic stuff. But they've explained they're doing more than that - setting up b teams, recruitment structures, in depth analysis and performance monitoring all seem to be things they're looking to do better than others at our level. Then the more long term stuff of creating a sports hub for the town and aiming for self sufficiency further down the line. That's not bog standard. The more success we make of that sort of stuff, the better our chances of being succesful on the pitch too. One doesn't need the other of course, but it would certainly make on pitch success more likely over time. I'll give you the sports hub - again, nobody can tell you quite what this means but I think I've got an idea and it would be good. Probably moreso for the town than the team though. The rest is all stuff that we've had and then not had in some shape or form in the past. The Rothwell's and Royle's have come in and probably had simple conversations along the lines of "have we not got x/y/z in place? OK, we need that. Get someone to do it". And then they don't go on about it. Unsworth sometimes does I suppose as another excuse for him not being able to win football matches. The derision you mention in your original post is usually aimed at other fans rather than those running the club (potholes aside) but unfairly comes across that way I suppose. If you express concern about going down again, or a desire for your football team to be good, you're told you're out of order and often hit with "but we've got a well run club now!", "look at all the amazing stuff happening off the pitch!" "Like what?" "You know what" "No, I don't. That's why I'm asking. Tell me, show me" "Oh fuck off" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: I'll give you the sports hub - again, nobody can tell you quite what this means but I think I've got an idea and it would be good. Probably moreso for the town than the team though. The rest is all stuff that we've had and then not had in some shape or form in the past. The Rothwell's and Royle's have come in and probably had simple conversations along the lines of "have we not got x/y/z in place? OK, we need that. Get someone to do it". And then they don't go on about it. Unsworth sometimes does I suppose as another excuse for him not being able to win football matches. The derision you mention in your original post is usually aimed at other fans rather than those running the club (potholes aside) but unfairly comes across that way I suppose. If you express concern about going down again, or a desire for your football team to be good, you're told you're out of order and often hit with "but we've got a well run club now!", "look at all the amazing stuff happening off the pitch!" "Like what?" "You know what" "No, I don't. That's why I'm asking. Tell me, show me" "Oh fuck off" I agree to an extent - for me it's more about what they haven't done. They haven't told the manager what players to play, pissed the fans and sponsors off alike or disappeared into the ether never to be heard of! Effortless stuff granted but a complete breath of fresh air compared to the last lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPAS Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: I'll give you the sports hub - again, nobody can tell you quite what this means but I think I've got an idea and it would be good. Probably moreso for the town than the team though. The rest is all stuff that we've had and then not had in some shape or form in the past. The Rothwell's and Royle's have come in and probably had simple conversations along the lines of "have we not got x/y/z in place? OK, we need that. Get someone to do it". And then they don't go on about it. Unsworth sometimes does I suppose as another excuse for him not being able to win football matches. The derision you mention in your original post is usually aimed at other fans rather than those running the club (potholes aside) but unfairly comes across that way I suppose. If you express concern about going down again, or a desire for your football team to be good, you're told you're out of order and often hit with "but we've got a well run club now!", "look at all the amazing stuff happening off the pitch!" "Like what?" "You know what" "No, I don't. That's why I'm asking. Tell me, show me" "Oh fuck off" This interview split over 2 parts covers a fair bit of what's been done to date and possibly what's to come next, land sale completion pending. We're obviously gonna do more of these interviews where we go into more detail again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Lee Sinnott said: He turned down jobs in Ireland, didn't he...? Not sure, I was only going off memory of what he said when he joined. But as Joe above alludes to, it sounds like him pushing for a chance rather than turning multiple offers down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Can't hold not being given the Everton job against him - it's a pretty rare thing for a PL team to promote a youth team man to the first team job. If he was offered the Oxford job and turned it down it seems a bit odd that it took anther four and a half years to be offered another one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 15 hours ago, wiseowl said: It's pretty obvious that nobody has seen anything. The appointment was based on a longstanding "Everton" friendship allied to the fact that, with his coaching knowledge and experience, he must be capable of managing a non-league club. Conversely, it's also pretty obvious that Everton and Preston saw something to convince them that he was not suitable as a first team manager at their respective levels. Like he was ever going to be considered for Everton or Preston...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, JoeP said: I agree to an extent - for me it's more about what they haven't done. They haven't told the manager what players to play, pissed the fans and sponsors off alike or disappeared into the ether never to be heard of! Effortless stuff granted but a complete breath of fresh air compared to the last lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 4 hours ago, League one forever said: To be fair, didn’t he say he’d turned down offers? He did actually say in his interview with the Dorking YouTube channel (yep, I'm sad enough to watch it) that he turned down 5 or 6 good offers to be a manager before he came here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Lee Sinnott said: He did actually say in his interview with the Dorking YouTube channel (yep, I'm sad enough to watch it) that he turned down 5 or 6 good offers to be a manager before he came here... He also mentions our Director of Football - who is it...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: He did actually say in his interview with the Dorking YouTube channel (yep, I'm sad enough to watch it) that he turned down 5 or 6 good offers to be a manager before he came here... Who knows. In the interview Joe mentions it sounds like he’s had an initial interview/discussion, what you mention there sounds more concrete- as in actual offers. All, I say is- it’s not like Unsy to say one thing then completely contradict himself. . . I find it hard to believe he actually turned 5/6 offers of employment, all of which will have been at a higher level. If he turns it round, nobody will care anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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