OneSizeFitz Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 4 hours ago, deyres42 said: Because there is no such thing as momentum in sport Hope that helps. This is a bizarre take, even by your standards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 6 hours ago, Boyyou said: I know we would all like to see a more expansive approach from the team but I am not keen on style over substance. Eastleigh have won six of the last nine by 1-0. Bet their fans don't give a s*** about pretty football if they make the play offs. Be nice if we can strike a balance but next season it is all about winning, no matter how ugly. This is an unforgiven division. If Eastleigh get promoted, their clogging style will soon get them relegated again. Stockport may have gained promotion playing good football, good enough for League Two and possibly enough to get them promoted again. This boring/frustrating style of play needs to be ditched as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 26 minutes ago, OneSizeFitz said: This is a bizarre take, even by your standards... I gave an example of how why it is nonsense, you can apply to any scenario you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 6 hours ago, Boyyou said: I know we would all like to see a more expansive approach from the team but I am not keen on style over substance. Eastleigh have won six of the last nine by 1-0. Bet their fans don't give a s*** about pretty football if they make the play offs. Be nice if we can strike a balance but next season it is all about winning, no matter how ugly. This is an unforgiven division. Attendances don't necessarily correlate with budgets, but for a club who gets 2 to 2.5k at this level it's hard to expect both winning football and high quality attacking play, so if I was an Eastleigh fan I wouldn't care about the quality of the play if we got results. For a club like us who'll realistically get at least 5k next season (probably will be top 3 in the league attendance-wise) and has settled down off the pitch for the most part, I'd expect us to be either winning with a highly effective pragmatic style regardless of how pretty it is (like Wrexham) or a style like Notts County where the quality of their player is notably better than the average in this league. I believe that if our expectation is to play like Eastleigh or Boreham Wood and rely on an individual piece of quality to turn a scrappy game into a 1-0 win, then we'd be selling ourselves short with the calibre of player that we could afford to bring in compared to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 7 hours ago, deyres42 said: Ten games will have no bearing on next season, there is no such thing as momentum. I kind of agree, psychological momentum is debatable as whether it exists or not. But team cohesion and an understanding of how best to work together does exist. Our keeper, centre backs and full backs (or wing backs as they were on Saturday) are likely to be here next season, probably Sheron and Shelton too. If a mix of those players play together, regardless of formation, they'll form a stronger understanding of how to work as a unit which will be useful for next season. If we can develop something similar with our attacking players then that would give us a base to build from at the start of next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyyou Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Wardie said: If Eastleigh get promoted, their clogging style will soon get them relegated again. Stockport may have gained promotion playing good football, good enough for League Two and possibly enough to get them promoted again. This boring/frustrating style of play needs to be ditched as soon as possible. Don't get me wrong. I want to see better football. I'd like us to be a Notts C or Wrexham, but winning consistently is the bottom line. Sutton were hardly easy on the eye but got promotion and are comfortable in League 2. Hopefully before the season is out we can see signs of striking the balance between hard to break down and progressive. Listening to DU, I think this is what he is aiming for, particularly with summer additions. Can't forget us doing well home to Wrexham but them grinding us down late on, albeit with better players and a settled squad. That's the attitude we are going to need next term when we will still have the 'big club' target on our backs. There are going to be times when it's not pretty and we have to grind out results. If we have to battle to six 1-0 wins in nine games then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 2 hours ago, League one forever said: I know - it would be handy. It’s almost like winning breeds confidence, culture and momentum. But people forget how to win over the summer apparently, and mentality and what affects it - are just physco babble according to eyrsey- so unfortunately the discussion is over. See Liverpool this season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 I think that it's the best teams that win consistently because they have the best players and best manager. It's that simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 1 hour ago, mcfluff1985 said: I think that it's the best teams that win consistently because they have the best players and best manager. It's that simple Yeah it’s that simple. Give over. So who are you employing - Klopp or Arteta? 1 hour ago, mcfluff1985 said: See Liverpool this season... On the flip side then- Arsenal just suddenly have the best players do they. No. Arteta has built that side over two/three seasons. (Very similar to what Klopp did previously) Got rid of dead wood, showed real promise last season then faded, and now this season is the culmination of the winning mentality, confidence and momentum he’s built. Look at Xhaka - he was absolutely woeful when Arteta came in, telling fans to fuck off. Now he plays every week. Was he one of the best players in the league. No. Klopp will come again when he can start the building process again- just like Fergie did when Mourinho turned up. Or if you want a lower league example why are Woking hammering us in the league. They don’t have better players or a bigger budget. But they have been building for the last few years- u guessed it- a winning mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 3 hours ago, deyres42 said: I gave an example of how why it is nonsense, you can apply to any scenario you want. Was that the snooker one? Yeah - winning 6 frames in a row must just be luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 It’s just come to me, Theres an easier way to explain this. Every single professional sportsperson in every single sport has at one time or another talked about the importance of momentum- but we have non professional lay people saying it doesn’t exist. I know who I’m with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 5 hours ago, League one forever said: Yeah it’s that simple. Give over. So who are you employing - Klopp or Arteta? On the flip side then- Arsenal just suddenly have the best players do they. No. Arteta has built that side over two/three seasons. (Very similar to what Klopp did previously) Got rid of dead wood, showed real promise last season then faded, and now this season is the culmination of the winning mentality, confidence and momentum he’s built. Look at Xhaka - he was absolutely woeful when Arteta came in, telling fans to fuck off. Now he plays every week. Was he one of the best players in the league. No. Klopp will come again when he can start the building process again- just like Fergie did when Mourinho turned up. Or if you want a lower league example why are Woking hammering us in the league. They don’t have better players or a bigger budget. But they have been building for the last few years- u guessed it- a winning mentality. At the risk of getting bogged down in pedantics here but IMO mentality and mindsets are different from momentum, they are characteristics you can more easily define. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 2 hours ago, deyres42 said: At the risk of getting bogged down in pedantics here but IMO mentality and mindsets are different from momentum, they are characteristics you can more easily define. Hope that helps. Riiiight. Momemtum is a by product of mentality and confidence. . . you can’t acknowledge one and dismiss the other. Well you can- but it’s nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1onheartNew Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 On 3/13/2023 at 7:26 PM, deyres42 said: Easy just to throw a team together and get instant success isn't it Yes. Wayne Bennett at 72 is making short work of it with the Dolphins in their inaugural NRL season. They have won their opening two games against the Sydney Roosters and Canberra Raiders. No mean feat by anyone's standards. It's a phenomenal achievement for a team of misfits and journeymen. Amazing what good coaching can achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShireBlue Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 10 minutes ago, L1onheartNew said: Yes. Wayne Bennett at 72 is making short work of it with the Dolphins in their inaugural NRL season. They have won their opening two games against the Sydney Roosters and Canberra Raiders. No mean feat by anyone's standards. It's a phenomenal achievement for a team of misfits and journeymen. Amazing what good coaching can achieve. To be fair Bennett is considered one of the best, if not the best coaches in the sport. We’ve not exactly got the equivalent at Latics. One thing I find really weird though is this “Everton mob” rhetoric I’ve read in a few places. It’s almost like some fans can’t wait to get the knives out with the people running the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Mindset or momentum? - I reckon its all about building a belief and confidence into a team and a club. Like many, I now see this season as an opportunity for the club (Board, Manager and players) to learn about what it needs to do to get back into the football league and build a structure and a squad to achieve it. Given the financial advantages (better crowds, owner with money to invest) that we have over the vast majority in the National League, I hope that better players arrive and that the manager develops a way of playing that ultimately brings success. Take Chesterfield as an example: 2019-20 League position: 19th 2020-21 League position: 6th 2021-22 League position: 7th 2022-23 League position: 4th (currently) And It was much quicker for Stockport who went 7th, 3rd, 1st Hopefully we can follow a similar trajectory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, TheBigDog said: Mindset or momentum? - I reckon its all about building a belief and confidence into a team and a club. Like many, I now see this season as an opportunity for the club (Board, Manager and players) to learn about what it needs to do to get back into the football league and build a structure and a squad to achieve it. Given the financial advantages (better crowds, owner with money to invest) that we have over the vast majority in the National League, I hope that better players arrive and that the manager develops a way of playing that ultimately brings success. Take Chesterfield as an example: 2019-20 League position: 19th 2020-21 League position: 6th 2021-22 League position: 7th 2022-23 League position: 4th (currently) And It was much quicker for Stockport who went 7th, 3rd, 1st Hopefully we can follow a similar trajectory. Both of those aren't momentum, it's spending more money on better players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1onheartNew Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, ShireBlue said: To be fair Bennett is considered one of the best, if not the best coaches in the sport. We’ve not exactly got the equivalent at Latics. One thing I find really weird though is this “Everton mob” rhetoric I’ve read in a few places. It’s almost like some fans can’t wait to get the knives out with the people running the club. This is true, Bennett is unparalelled; but it is part of my point. Bennett has the Dolphins doing the basics and doing them well. Nothing fancy, no world beaters, just a cohesive unit working for each other. A better coach and I am certain that there were many suitable applicants, would have done similar with our own team of misfits and journeymen. DU got it wrong when he first took over. However, to his credit, he has learned on the job and is starting to get that cohesion. With a full close and pre-season under his reign, who knows what we will achieve. He is no Bennett, but he and the team, whoever they may be, will be better for it. The next 10 games are not for tinkering with, they are for consolidation and unification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 30 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: Both of those aren't momentum, it's spending more money on better players... Er… that was my point - better players and a better way of playing underpinned by investment. That should then allow us to build some sort of momentum a bit like Stockport and Chesterfield… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 50 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: Er… that was my point - better players and a better way of playing underpinned by investment. That should then allow us to build some sort of momentum a bit like Stockport and Chesterfield… Exactly. It's about the club as a whole gaining momentum. That might not be momentum as Brian Cox would define it but there's not the slightest doubt that it's vital in every sport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 13 hours ago, League one forever said: Was that the snooker one? Yeah - winning 6 frames in a row must just be luck. Tossing a coin 6 times and it coming down on the same side is luck, and it does happen as we have seen with some cricket captains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 The recent under the cosh with Danny Simpson. He explains that the momentum carried them through from the year they just stayed up to the following year of winning the league… momentum is a thing and we should be looking to win every game for this purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 minute ago, BP1960 said: Tossing a coin 6 times and it coming down on the same side is luck, and it does happen as we have seen with some cricket captains. I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, League one forever said: I give up. Glad to hear that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Glad to hear that. Enjoy your coin tossing at the snooker. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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