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HarryBosch

Can we please, after what now seems like many seasons of it, put to bed the ludicrous notion that....

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9 hours ago, BP1960 said:

 

Talks are already happening.

Might take a while, but it will IMO.

 

Talks have been happening for 20 years.  The clubs will always be looking at it and talking.  

 

Interesting that current talks at UEFA (not including the clubs) are about how worried they are that the television audience for Champions Leagud is falling. It’s a bad product. Pure knockout is farrrr more interesting. 

 

I wouldnt mind a breakaway Euro league. I’d never watch it and domestic football would improve as a result I would imagine. 

 

I’m puzzled why advertisers haven’t woken up to the fact that nobody watches Premier League live matches either. The audience are relatively tiny.  If they ever do wake up to it and Sky/BT respond then it could be interesting.  If a social media giant picks it up then it will become a mess. 

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There's no way a full blown European League will happen. Yes, I am sure the big clubs will continue to tweak the format of European competitions to suit themselves but actually exit domestic leagues altogether?  No. 

 

Would you fancy being the Liverpool Chairman who says time's up for the Merseyside Derby? 

 

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1 hour ago, whittles left foot said:

Aston Villa results out this morning-some eye watering numbers in there!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47468115

 

Could be some serious cost cutting going on in the next few years there if they don't go up I think they only have another year of parachute payments after this.

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Clubs have to get smarter/savvy with players' contracts. Holding on to players after relegation is a sunk cost, it's easy to forget the reason the club has been relegated is due to the players in the first place - why clubs want/allow players to run the roost is beyond me.

 

Relegation is an ideal opportunity to regenerate and recover. It's not the end.

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29 minutes ago, Matt said:

Clubs have to get smarter/savvy with players' contracts. Holding on to players after relegation is a sunk cost, it's easy to forget the reason the club has been relegated is due to the players in the first place - why clubs want/allow players to run the roost is beyond me.

 

Relegation is an ideal opportunity to regenerate and recover. It's not the end.

 

Agreed. Should be a reset. It shouldn’t be panic stations and holding on to your ‘best’ players at all costs, which seems to happen all too often. 

 

I’m intrigued to see how this new ownership of Bolton pans out in the next few weeks and months... that place needs huge cash injections on a weekly basis.

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3 hours ago, Matt said:

Clubs have to get smarter/savvy with players' contracts. Holding on to players after relegation is a sunk cost, it's easy to forget the reason the club has been relegated is due to the players in the first place - why clubs want/allow players to run the roost is beyond me.

 

Relegation is an ideal opportunity to regenerate and recover. It's not the end.

 

Agreed. Contracts should contain relegation clauses. Would be surprised if they didn’t. However that doesn’t necessarily mean that holding on to players after relegation is a bad thing. They stay on reduced terms or they go. They can be part of that recovery.

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4 hours ago, Matt said:

Clubs have to get smarter/savvy with players' contracts. Holding on to players after relegation is a sunk cost, it's easy to forget the reason the club has been relegated is due to the players in the first place - why clubs want/allow players to run the roost is beyond me.

 

Relegation is an ideal opportunity to regenerate and recover. It's not the end.

It’s getting rid that can be the problem, look at Sunderland 

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Aston Villa's wage bill vs spending charts are particularly interesting as their wages are sky-high yet only spent about £1.8m on transfers; I'll try and find the graphic later on and add it in.

 

Whilst I was looking for resources on this I found this list which was accurate last summer - however looking down the list I spotted Micah Richards who is still at Villa and who has only completed 26 games since joining them in 2015. I don't know if Villa negotiated a wage reduction considering they didn't go up last year - they were reported to be trying to -  however Richards' £50,000 a week is a hard value to justify...

 

image.png

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5 minutes ago, Matt said:

Aston Villa's wage bill vs spending charts are particularly interesting as their wages are sky-high yet only spent about £1.8m on transfers; I'll try and find the graphic later on and add it in.

 

Bolton were the same when they were doing well with Fat Sam, made out that they were on a shoestring because they never spent much on buying players but had one of the higher wage bills. We'll see shortly how that worked out 

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Perhaps more revelaing that someone who can't make Ipswich's first team and is out on loan is on £23k.

 

Just an aside Ipswich are about to miss out on breaking our record for the longest ever stay in the second tier. 

 

Ipswich - 2002-2019

Us: 1974-1994

 

We also hold the record for the longest ever stay in the third tier.  Not quote a trophy but...

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26 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Perhaps more revelaing that someone who can't make Ipswich's first team and is out on loan is on £23k.

 

Just an aside Ipswich are about to miss out on breaking our record for the longest ever stay in the second tier. 

 

Ipswich - 2002-2019

Us: 1974-1994

 

We also hold the record for the longest ever stay in the third tier.  Not quote a trophy but...

1991...

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

Aston Villa's wage bill vs spending charts are particularly interesting as their wages are sky-high yet only spent about £1.8m on transfers; I'll try and find the graphic later on and add it in.

 

Whilst I was looking for resources on this I found this list which was accurate last summer - however looking down the list I spotted Micah Richards who is still at Villa and who has only completed 26 games since joining them in 2015. I don't know if Villa negotiated a wage reduction considering they didn't go up last year - they were reported to be trying to -  however Richards' £50,000 a week is a hard value to justify...

 

image.png

 

I've found the supporting graphics...

 

 

 

 

image.png

image.png

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

 

I've found the supporting graphics...

 

 

 

 

image.png

image.png

How do some of those clubs pay the wage bill on the gates they get?

 

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 11:28 AM, whittles left foot said:

Aston Villa results out this morning-some eye watering numbers in there!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47468115

790 employees! What do they all do?

 

As for De Gea wanting £400 pw. isn't Ramsey rumoured to be moving to Juventus for £600k a week. It is ridiculous and many of these top clubs would be in serious trouble if the TV companies decided enough was enough, and offered much lower contracts to cover games. Unfortunately they won't because the lieks of Sky depend on football, not so much BT, and terestial TV companies can't compete and have more or less pulled out altogether. How long will it be before Amazon Prime starts bidding, pushing up wages even more?

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

 

I've found the supporting graphics...

 

 

 

 

image.png

image.png

 

Fair play to the Blades!

 

One of the lowest wage bills and transfers in, did well last season and look like they may go up this year!

 

 

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5 hours ago, al_bro said:

How do some of those clubs pay the wage bill on the gates they get?

 

790 employees! What do they all do?

 

As for De Gea wanting £400 pw. isn't Ramsey rumoured to be moving to Juventus for £600k a week. It is ridiculous and many of these top clubs would be in serious trouble if the TV companies decided enough was enough, and offered much lower contracts to cover games. Unfortunately they won't because the lieks of Sky depend on football, not so much BT, and terestial TV companies can't compete and have more or less pulled out altogether. How long will it be before Amazon Prime starts bidding, pushing up wages even more?

 

When you think it includes part time staff then a football club or even a business the size of Aston Villa then uts quite easy to see why they employ 790 people. The matchday staff turnstile operators, programme sellers, kiosk stewards staff, hospitality staff, waiters, bar staff, kitchen staff, cleaners, security staff, groundstaff. Then you have full time employees Directors, finance staff, ticket office staff, marketing people social media team, admin and commercial staff, people who look after the training ground. Then you have the football staff youth team coaches from u9s to under 16s then academy staff medical staff fitness and well being staff. community trust staff who go into schools. Thats before you get to the first team squad who will have a manager coaches fitness coaches physio staff psychologists player liason officers data analyst's, scouts. Did you see it when Man City won the league last season and the size of Pep Guardiola s backroom staff that was another squad in itself easily 20-30 people easily. Once you add it all up 790 seems about right. We probably have more employees at OAFC than you would think even after cut backs.

 

With regards to the tv rights then yes Amazon and Netflix could likely join the next round of tv deals as the premier league is such a global product and such a big seller that the cost of rights shows no sign of slowing just yet. Who knows maybe one day the social media sites such as Facebook might join in the bidding as the advertising revenue is so big. Thats what drives up the tv rights, advertisers will pay a huge amount of money to advertise during breaks in big sporting events. As its the most likely thing young men (the most difficult to reach group for advertisers) will sit down to watch.

 

As an a side note in 1992 the total revenue of all the top division clubs was £166million (source soccernomics by Syzmanski and Kuper)  Nowadays Man United is a £500million plus a year business interms of revenue City Chelsea and Arsenal arent that far behind neither are Liverpool.

 

In the Championship Revenues in 1992 of all the clubs totalled £62million in 2016 that figure had gone upto £556million so their is evidence of some trickledown effect however the growth at the top is getting bigger while the rate of growth lower down isn't as big.

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On 3/6/2019 at 9:41 AM, kowenicki said:

 

 

Interesting that current talks at UEFA (not including the clubs) are about how worried they are that the television audience for Champions Leagud is falling. It’s a bad product. Pure knockout is farrrr more interesting. Disagree. The audience is falling because of the channels they have signed deals with.

 

 

 

I’m puzzled why advertisers haven’t woken up to the fact that nobody watches Premier League live matches either. The audience are relatively tiny.  

Ridiculous. So ridiculous it even puzzles yourself.

 

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1 hour ago, Monty Burns said:

 

 

You disagree that knock out is a better spectacle?  Didn’t have you down as elitist. 

 

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2 hours ago, Monty Burns said:

The audience is falling because of the channels they have signed deals with.

 

 

Might be something in that, I'll have to see if that's the case - however away from TV viewing, it's really relatively easy getting a group stage ticket as opposed to a knockout stage ticket. CL is watered down to almost homeopathic potency simply by adding in (in some leagues) 75% of the nations quota that aren't Champions. Sure it's certainly spread its reach far and wide inviting lesser leagues with a path to the finals, Quarabag and Crvena and Plzen aren't really going to pack them in in the groups - and who's going to watch it on TV?

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11 minutes ago, Matt said:

 

Might be something in that, I'll have to see if that's the case - however away from TV viewing, it's really relatively easy getting a group stage ticket as opposed to a knockout stage ticket.

 

Apologies for quoting the Daily Mail, won't happen again...  there's no doubt whatsoever that moving the games to BT had a huge impact on viewing figures

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3534879/BT-s-exclusive-Euro-deal-seen-mistake-UEFA-Champions-League-suffers-losing-big-viewing-figures.html

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Just now, Dave_Og said:

 

Apologies for quoting the Daily Mail, won't happen again...  there's no doubt whatsoever that moving the games to BT had a huge impact on viewing figures

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3534879/BT-s-exclusive-Euro-deal-seen-mistake-UEFA-Champions-League-suffers-losing-big-viewing-figures.html

 

It makes sense, given the exclusivity of the platforms. We need to also admit that physical attendances aren't turned on to group stages either. The two issues both highlight the over-arching motif of UEFA picking the competition up by the heels and shaking every last copper out of it.

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15 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

Apologies for quoting the Daily Mail, won't happen again...  there's no doubt whatsoever that moving the games to BT had a huge impact on viewing figures

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3534879/BT-s-exclusive-Euro-deal-seen-mistake-UEFA-Champions-League-suffers-losing-big-viewing-figures.html

Inevitable that the champs league was gonna be impacted on by going head to head with the checkatrade... 🤭

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3 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

 

Apologies for quoting the Daily Mail, won't happen again...  there's no doubt whatsoever that moving the games to BT had a huge impact on viewing figures

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3534879/BT-s-exclusive-Euro-deal-seen-mistake-UEFA-Champions-League-suffers-losing-big-viewing-figures.html

 

True. Undeniable. 

 

Its also undeniable that it isnt as as attractive or special as it was imo.  It’s a watered down mess, designed to get the top teams through and enable inclusion of lesser leagues. The groups are a sham. It’s a procession with virtually no shocks for the top clubs. Tickets are a doddle to get at City and cheap... but that’s City I guess. 

 

Cup competitions should be knock out. 

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