Frankly Mr Shankly Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Does the club target anyone? The marketing of the club is shambolic at best, I don't think they target any areas to attract new fans. That's been one of my criticism's for ages. It just doesn't do enough and we haven't had an effective, dedicated marketing bod in there since Jarvis. People will come, but the club need to be far more proactive in getting bums on seats than they have been in the last 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticMark Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 there is no oldham part of failsworth or failsworth part of oldham 'failsworth is manchester' Failsworth itself has not been a part of the City of Manchester for 115 years, since the Failsworth Urban District, in the county of Lancashire, was created following the 1894 Local Government Act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Of course it dose not take relocation... Having a whopping great big shiny new football stadium in walking distance may well attract people who have never thought of going before. I would of thought this would of been indisputable to be frank. It may be, if it gets built, be shiny, and it may be great (although the admiration for the Colchester and Shrewsbury models suggests not) but it won't be big. 12000 capacity isn't big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Does the club target anyone? The marketing of the club is shambolic at best, I don't think they target any areas to attract new fans. Good question. Perhaps not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Maybe Im naive but while I certainly dont think the TA are saints I do believe they have the clubs best intentions at heart otherwise they would have f*cked us off ages ago when it was obvious the town would not back the team. Remember the TA are here to make money off the BP land, they could easily just sack off the club and sell the land which makes me think they do want to see the club do well. It's a myth that the town won't back the club. When there's something convincing going on the town does respond. Look at the likes of Bolton, Preston or Blackburn, to name only local examples. When they were down where we are they got similar crowds to us. If they'd gained PL status when we did-just before the unprecedented football boom-they wouldn't have attracted many more than we did at the time (in fact Bolton averaged 17-18000 during their PL season at Burnden Park). If we'd attained PL status when they did-during the boom-we'd have benefited from bigger PL crowds than we did get. Simple as that. The reason there has been little response from the town during TTA's time here is that the the club has stood still in footballing terms, and has, at times, appeared to be a shambles to the wider Oldham public: false dawns, knee-jerk managerial appointments and sackings, JR 'second coming' gimmicks, poor marketing and bad organisation at BP (running out of pies before half-time and so on.) Not to mention the ongoing stadium saga. In the entire Football League, there are very few clubs that get large fanatical attendances on a regular basis, even when they are languishing in the lower divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 On the flipside, although admittedly to a lesser extent, surely the fact they don't atually live in the borough of Oldham doesn't completely rule out the possibility that the good people of Newton Heath might consider supporting Latics? A handful might, but most will continue to follow their families' lead and support the 'glamour clubs' based in their own city. The same reason why many Oldhamers support the Manchester clubs, in actual fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 ahhhh here we go again, im going for 12 pages Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outoftheblue Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Maybe Im naive but while I certainly dont think the TA are saints I do believe they have the clubs best intentions at heart otherwise they would have f*cked us off ages ago when it was obvious the town would not back the team. Remember the TA are here to make money off the BP land, they could easily just sack off the club and sell the land which makes me think they do want to see the club do well. Demolishing the ground is the key to selling the land. Hence the u-turn on BP redevelopment when it was established that TTA weren't going to get the return they anticipated when the arse fell out of the housing market. Once we move out, the bulldozers will be straight in and TTA will have raked in what they can from the land and sold their share of the club. They are business men - why would they do anything else? Their outlay for building this ground will be a fraction of the original BP plans thanks to OMBC's involvement plus government grants etc, so it makes business sense to then maximise the land by clearing the ground and realising its full potential value. Not as rewarding for TTA, but it keeps them in pocket. I've never believed for one minute that they wanted to run a successful football club, but I have always been thankful that they spotted a business opportunity when we most needed someone to. What a shame about the collapse of the market - we could have had a fabulous stadium where we preferred it, and they could have made themselves a tidy sum before selling on. As it is, we'll end up with a second choice (Depending on your point of view) stadium four miles down the road, and TTA will get a fraction of their anticipated return before moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 "We're not part of Manchester, we're not pa-a-a-rt of Man-ches-ter!" I tried to get that song going at the Masters on two occasions, but I was a lone voice. If only the indisputable evidence about Failsworth never having been in Manchester and the M35 Postcode area being totally within Oldham had been available, there may have been a resounding chorus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Postcodes and official boundaries aside, how many people feel that Failsworth is part of Oldham? I lived on the doorstep of Failsworth for 26 years and always considered it Manchester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 ... how they'll feel when all of a sudden Manchester Athletic starts slowly being mooted about. Makes me laugh how easily dismissed this point is...you hear "it just won't happen"...hmmmmmm....ok....coz you don't want to believe it won't! And if it's not by TTA, then when it's built and they sell (which they will...it's a land deal) the next lot might....suddenly it all becomes a little bit more ok, esp when we'll be in the stadium...bit like the powers that be want MK Scum....over time....with enough of a shove...they will accept! Or else.... We would have to move into Manchester for such a new name to be mooted. At present there is only talk of us moving to Failsworth, which has now been proved beyond all reasonable doubt to have never been in Manchester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 A handful might, but most will continue to follow their families' lead and support the 'glamour clubs' based in their own city. The same reason why many Oldhamers support the Manchester clubs, in actual fact. Of course Failsworth isn't going to become a huge Latics heartland all of a sudden - we all know that there are far more Redd Soxx and circus act fans in the, "heartlands," than there are active Latics (although I still love the sight of blue shirts coming out of the side streets on the way through Royton if for whatever reason I haven't already been in a pub for several hours). I don't think it's crazy to think that we might get a few hundred maybe, reach into some schools where we never had an impact, get a few random punters who just give it a go and fluke a great match. There have been threads on here and JKL before about how you became a Latics fan and the reasons (aside from, "my dad,") were many and varied. Every little helps. Incidentally I agree that enough isn't done to market the club. I sympathise with the lack of success and the cost involved but I'm not sure if a truly long term view has been taken which reflects the value of a kid who is a fan for life to the club. Perhaps a fact of life given that no clubs are owned for 70 years by the same people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Demolishing the ground is the key to selling the land. Hence the u-turn on BP redevelopment when it was established that TTA weren't going to get the return they anticipated when the arse fell out of the housing market. Once we move out, the bulldozers will be straight in and TTA will have raked in what they can from the land and sold their share of the club. They are business men - why would they do anything else? Their outlay for building this ground will be a fraction of the original BP plans thanks to OMBC's involvement plus government grants etc, so it makes business sense to then maximise the land by clearing the ground and realising its full potential value. Not as rewarding for TTA, but it keeps them in pocket. I've never believed for one minute that they wanted to run a successful football club, but I have always been thankful that they spotted a business opportunity when we most needed someone to. What a shame about the collapse of the market - we could have had a fabulous stadium where we preferred it, and they could have made themselves a tidy sum before selling on. As it is, we'll end up with a second choice (Depending on your point of view) stadium four miles down the road, and TTA will get a fraction of their anticipated return before moving on. I dont believe they have never wanted to run a successful football club because of the money they have spent on the team. They could have quite easily lowered costs further by reducing the playing budget and not sacking managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Postcodes and official boundaries aside, how many people feel that Failsworth is part of Oldham? I lived on the doorstep of Failsworth for 26 years and always considered it Manchester. The simple truth is you were under a misconception and those Failsworth residents who continue to 'feel' along those lines, because of the postcode, are letting down the good name of Failsworth and its proud history by selling its soul to Manchester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Postcodes and official boundaries aside, how many people feel that Failsworth is part of Oldham? I lived on the doorstep of Failsworth for 26 years and always considered it Manchester. Do you live in Croydon now? Or Greater London? Or Surrey? Oh hang on, all three. Ask 5 people where they feel they belong and you might get 5 answers, and none of them matter in the course of going about your life or business. Much the same with the ground move for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Do you live in Croydon now? Or Greater London? Or Surrey? Oh hang on, all three. Ask 5 people where they feel they belong and you might get 5 answers, and none of them matter in the course of going about your life or business. Much the same with the ground move for me. Of course, my view on Failsworth's allegiances is in no way indicative of the population's opinion. The residents of Failsworth may well feel a strong affinity for Oldham. Personally, I suspect not. Other than that, I'm a bit thick to understand what point you're making, Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Post number 92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Of course, my view on Failsworth's allegiances is in no way indicative of the population's opinion. The residents of Failsworth may well feel a strong affinity for Oldham. Personally, I suspect not. Other than that, I'm a bit thick to understand what point you're making, Andy. You suspect right. I know quite a lot of people from Failsworth, and hardly any say they are from Oldham. I have had many a argument with the plastic mancs that they are not from Manchester...but they cant quite grasp the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 We would have to move into Manchester for such a new name to be mooted. At present there is only talk of us moving to Failsworth, which has now been proved beyond all reasonable doubt to have never been in Manchester. And it's also beyond any doubt that Failsworth is not, nor never has been in Oldham. It might fall within the boundaries of OMBC but that merely means it's administrated and served by Oldham MBC....and another thing, it's not beyond the realms of possibilty that 'Oldham MBC' could undergo a name change in the future...some folk who live in the Borough feel a more generic name would be better...like they have for Tameside, Kirkless, Calderdale Councils etc There's been a few mentions of postcodes on this thread as well ....mainly by Lookers Carl and oafc0000 in a pathetic attempt to make light of people's concerns about the club relocating out of Oldham...as has been said, postcodes mean absolutely nothing....and I don't care if Rochdale FC have an OL postcode - it's beyond any doubt that Rochdale play in Rochdale and Bury play in Bury... Anyway, we could all argue this point until the cows come home and we'd still never agree or even agree to disagree...and for me, it's not necessarily moving out of Oldham that's the big issue for me, it's actually what Corp and a few others have already pointed out - we're moving well away from our heartland (North Chadd/Shaw/Royton/Oldham), or as Danny Dyer might say....'right off our manor'....that's the big concern for me. I just want to know that everything has been done to find a site in or as near to our heartland as possible....if this has been done and our only option is to move to Failsworth then I don't think TTA can do anything else. Going off on a tangent here maybe, but I do find it strange how one minute we seemed to be being 'primed' for a possible groundshare, and then the next it's all systems go with a move to Failsworth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I think by moving to Failsworth we will be increasing the reach of our possible fanbase far more than where we are now. I only live on the other side of town but the only easy and quick way to get to BP is by car, buses I'd have to change, it's not the greatest of places to get to easily. Moving to Failsworth I'd have the numerous buses that go direct to Failsworth no messing. The metrolink will also make transportation much better. It'll be much easier for people south of Oldham to get there, with excellent motorway links and no fields separating us from the nearest town, moving the stadium to Failsworth makes sense so long as the stadium and facilites would be upto scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I just want to know that everything has been done to find a site in or as near to our heartland as possible....if this has been done and our only option is to move to Failsworth then I don't think TTA can do anything else. Going off on a tangent here maybe, but I do find it strange how one minute we seemed to be being 'primed' for a possible groundshare, and then the next it's all systems go with a move to Failsworth... All should be revealed in the answers at Monday's Forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) Corporal_Jones' date='Aug 5 2009, 12:50 PM' post='292574'] I'll have you know I've more than once disembarked from an 82 outside the Civic Centre at gone helf seven for an evening kick-off, straight from work, and made it into the ground before a ball is kicked, and without breaking into a run. Not with 16,000 in the stadium you didn't. Edited August 5, 2009 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Of course, my view on Failsworth's allegiances is in no way indicative of the population's opinion. The residents of Failsworth may well feel a strong affinity for Oldham. Personally, I suspect not. Other than that, I'm a bit thick to understand what point you're making, Andy. Well, people's affinity to the area and their football club are infinitely complex. Round Croydon way (granted not so much the bit where you live) there are loads of the sort of folk who used to live round Chelsea and Fulham way until it got posh, and their kids, and a lot of them are armchair fans to this day. Some people support Colin's lot, and to be fair to Palace they are a lot more targeted towards family and local involvement than most clubs I have seen. A lot still go up to Arsenal or Spurs, or Man Utd, or don't go anywhere, because that's who they used to support or support from an armchair. A lot of people move down that way and some, like yourself and me, will go to the odd local game because it's football and an excuse to go out. Some will become regulars. Some will go to one game and never go again. Many people who live in Croydon call themselves Londoners. Some say they live in Croydon. Some would choke at the idea of either and insist they live in Surrey. It's a bit like Oldham/Manchester/Lancashire. So long as the club makes an effort to reach out to the people round and about and puts something worth seeing once in a while who gives toss about a mile or two this way or that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 So long as the club makes an effort to reach out to the people round and about and puts something worth seeing once in a while who gives toss about a mile or two this way or that? I'm sure the club will (well, as long as they hire a marketing department). My point, which I admit hasn't really been revealed yet, is that, as far as I'm aware (and I concede there's a decent chance I'm wrong), people from Failsworth don't consider themselves Oldhamers; therefore, they're very unlikely to start following Oldham Athletic. They might make a cursory effort to attend a couple of games when there's nowt better to do, but I strongly believe this will happen no more than twice a season; a bit like me and thee with Palace. The fanbase will eventually dwindle. Unless there's a rebranding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) Civic centre Oldham to BP - 1.2miles for an average walker 24mins .... for a sprinter like Corp 10 mins Civic centre to Lancaster Club 3.6 miles 1hr 13 mins I agree 0000, I hope by moving into a new area Latics will actually gain support. It's sucess or failure is now down to us .. the fans OH MY GOD....you really, really, really do not get it, do you? You really think that the move is about gaining new support to keep us financially stable? It really really isn't!!! The financial stability will come from the 365 days use of the complex and as it is now, us regular Joes going through the turnstile won't make F-all difference!!! It's the business offices and conferencing facilities which will, and this again raises huge doubts over the idea of moving....why? Coz who would chose us over Eastlands, the Sheridan Suite, numerous places all over Manchester? The whole point is that these facilities were an alternative, for Oldham businesses, on the M62 etc. Instead, we're moving it on the competitions doorsteps...both on the pitch and off it! TTA are in it for a land deal...in 5yrs time they'll leave and be happy in their own minds that we're better off. I'm highly sceptible that we will be!!! NB: Just so ppl don't forget...I'm not saying moving to Failsworth is something I'm dead against. But I'm also very far from convinced by it. I'm saying I want to see facts and figures. Amounts that can be made from selling the land, what we'd get at BP if we redeveloped for £10m and what £20m could offer and then we can compare that to the £20m in Failsworth etc. and decide on all possibilities...All this isn't going to happen tho...so I am not happy to say moving is bang on the right decision. And that redeveloping BP isn't an option. I'm not that thrilled to move out for a land deal...yes, TTA deserve to earn...but at what cost to us? In a place where our support neither rises or falls, in a place where offices and suites are 3rd choice over established venues around etc. And still, not 1 single person has answered a question I endlessly ask...why were we told 4yrs ago "Ferney Farm is the only viable option" in Oldham for a stadium but suddenly that isn't true now? Now that they don't want to redevelop on a smaller scale. IT DOESNT ADD UP! Edited August 6, 2009 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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