Andy b Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 If that is the case why would it cost money to purchase the club if it effectively makes a 1m + loss every year? It either makes a loss and the owners would, in these circumstances, be willing to sell for peanuts, albeit fans would have to cover day to day running costs or it makes a profit and day to day running costs would be covered by income. It cannot be the case that the club is worth millions whilst also making a loss every month. That's a direct contradiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 If that is the case why would it cost money to purchase the club if it effectively makes a 1m + loss every year? It either makes a loss and the owners would, in these circumstances, be willing to sell for peanuts, albeit fans would have to cover day to day running costs or it makes a profit and day to day running costs would be covered by income. It cannot be the case that the club is worth millions whilst also making a loss every month. That's a direct contradiction. The owners want to recoup their initial outlay, I assume. Or some other amount that they feel entitled to demand, rightly or wrongly. And I didn't say it was making a loss (I have no idea if it is or isn't). I said that for fan ownership to work you'd need people to cover costs because income is unlikely to match expenses every month. Some months will have fewer home games (or none at all in the closed season), so no little or no gate income. Some months will have season ticket income. Some will have player sales or purchases. But the wage bill and most of the costs will be steady throughout the year, so you need people who can fund the difference each month when it's not in your favour. The point I'm trying to make is that the people who currently own the club want money for it, and there's a sizeable amount needed each month to run it, which you can't guarantee you'll make in income that month (even if over the year it's not a loss-making business). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 The owners want to recoup their initial outlay, I assume. Or some other amount that they feel entitled to demand, rightly or wrongly. And I didn't say it was making a loss (I have no idea if it is or isn't). I said that for fan ownership to work you'd need people to cover costs because income is unlikely to match expenses every month. Some months will have fewer home games (or none at all in the closed season), so no little or no gate income. Some months will have season ticket income. Some will have player sales or purchases. But the wage bill and most of the costs will be steady throughout the year, so you need people who can fund the difference each month when it's not in your favour. The point I'm trying to make is that the people who currently own the club want money for it, and there's a sizeable amount needed each month to run it, which you can't guarantee you'll make in income that month (even if over the year it's not a loss-making business). Also, the new stand cost a fair bit. So those debts need to be serviced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Yes, that's sort of my point. You need fans willing and able to fund the purchase price and cover costs of around £100k a month, since money will only turn up in fits and starts (season ticket sales, player sales, cup runs, etc). You can't rely on monthly income matching monthly outgoings steadily.Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 If that is the case why would it cost money to purchase the club if it effectively makes a 1m + loss every year? It either makes a loss and the owners would, in these circumstances, be willing to sell for peanuts, albeit fans would have to cover day to day running costs or it makes a profit and day to day running costs would be covered by income. It cannot be the case that the club is worth millions whilst also making a loss every month. That's a direct contradiction. Day to day it clearly does make a loss, we know that from past accounts. The shortfall has largely been made from player sales, and some cup runs, and not just recently. The regular shortfall has been happening for decades and is not new. The land value was the financial attraction for the TTA, generating additional income from it. Simon Brooke has confirmed that profits from New Stand will go directly to reducing new stand debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitts Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Fan ownership is not a realistic proposition. However, I think Playershare is a route to better things. If the 3000 fans just contribute 1 pound a week, it would generate around 150k a year. That would fund the wages of one or two decent players at this level. In my opinion there is not a lot of difference at our level between most teams, notwithstanding the odd ones coming down from the championship with money. A couple of quality players could just make us competitive for a play off position. If we can be fighting at the right end of the table, it would increase the support and ultimately that increases the income, which has to be the aim of all the fans, the chairman and the board If we are mote successful, our profile is raised and just may make us a more attractive proposition for a buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Day to day it clearly does make a loss, we know that from past accounts. The shortfall has largely been made from player sales, and some cup runs, and not just recently. The regular shortfall has been happening for decades and is not new. The land value was the financial attraction for the TTA, generating additional income from it. Simon Brooke has confirmed that profits from New Stand will go directly to reducing new stand debt. Excluding or including match day revenue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Yes, that's sort of my point. You need fans willing and able to fund the purchase price and cover costs of around £100k a month, since money will only turn up in fits and starts (season ticket sales, player sales, cup runs, etc). You can't rely on monthly income matching monthly outgoings steadily.Maybe it doesn't have to be 100k a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Maybe it doesn't have to be 100k a month. Sure, of course. But whether it's £10k or £100k it's a regular ongoing commitment that fans who want to own the club need to be prepared for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) There are plenty of very rich Oldham born or based business people who could be gathered together to form a consortium, Has the clubs marketing manager actually thought about seeking them out, or are the the club waiting forever in the hope someone comes forward? Edited May 31, 2016 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFCinWolves Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Fan ownership is not a realistic proposition. However, I think Playershare is a route to better things. If the 3000 fans just contribute 1 pound a week, it would generate around 150k a year. That would fund the wages of one or two decent players at this level. In my opinion there is not a lot of difference at our level between most teams, notwithstanding the odd ones coming down from the championship with money. A couple of quality players could just make us competitive for a play off position. If we can be fighting at the right end of the table, it would increase the support and ultimately that increases the income, which has to be the aim of all the fans, the chairman and the board If we are mote successful, our profile is raised and just may make us a more attractive proposition for a buyer. 3000 fans at a £1 a day and we would be laughing it not unthinkable and I'm sure there be the odd fan like myself who would pay £2 to £5 a day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Sure, of course. But whether it's £10k or £100k it's a regular ongoing commitment that fans who want to own the club need to be prepared for. I agree, if it's trimmed down though it becomes more manageable. As a side - what happens to OAFC's FA Cup final ticket allocation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitts Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 3000 fans at a £1 a day and we would be laughing it not unthinkable and I'm sure there be the odd fan like myself who would pay £2 to £5 a day A generous offer but beyond the reach of most. 1 pound a week target would be a fantastic but achievable aim for the average fan. The advantage of playershare is that it all goes to the recruitment of players and not to pay off any club overheads. This is where the fans can make a difference to the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagger Lee Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Fan ownership of the club is great As long as everyone accepts that I will be running the club, making all the appointments, using the directors box and engaging with the other owners - you lot - only when I feel it will be constructive Now if everyone agrees with this and stumps up the money I don't foresee a problem. All it takes is for someone else to pipe up and claim he is the boss for it all to come undone, so stop being selfish stump up the money then shut up and just accept that I, stagger lee, am the best man to run a fan owned club. Edited May 31, 2016 by Stagger Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 3000 fans at a £1 a day and we would be laughing it not unthinkable and I'm sure there be the odd fan like myself who would pay £2 to £5 a day Bear in mind that you're effectively asking 3,000 fans to pay more than they would for a second season ticket. Although spread over the year that might be more palatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitts Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 As per original post, 1 pound per week (not day) from the 3000 support to playershare would generate £150K which would fund the wages of one or two new players. That would make a big difference to the club. Incidentally, i have no allegience to playershare. I contribute regularly, it just needs as many of us to do the same, be it a pound a week or more. It is a realistic way of improving the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFCinWolves Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 To Playershare for players though. I think that's an important factor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Ricardo fuller. I'll just throw that out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Ricardo fuller. I'll just throw that out there Big George. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 So, we're agreed. Get the fans to pay more and cut costs, which usually means the wage bill. So, fewer players/players on lower wages? Fans to have input in the day-to-day running of the club (given the unity shown on this Board, that should be easy). I can now see the attraction of a fan takeover...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 The absence of any unity amongst fans is clearly the stumbling block to fans having any real infuence over the club even in the absence of outright ownership. Not enough fans are prepared to pull together towards a common cause. Fan ownership may not be a panacea but the fans of this club need to have a greater influence over its future. Fans need to pull together and critically need a leader to set the tone and agenda. The breakdown in relationship between fans and the club is as much the fans as the clubs fault. The club gets no clear direction as to how the fans feel. They are totally fragmented and from my observation act independently and probably give contradicting opinions to the club. Misguided endeavours like the failed score board fund result from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor evil Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 The absence of any unity amongst fans is clearly the stumbling block to fans having any real infuence over the club even in the absence of outright ownership. Not enough fans are prepared to pull together towards a common cause. Fan ownership may not be a panacea but the fans of this club need to have a greater influence over its future. Fans need to pull together and critically need a leader to set the tone and agenda. The breakdown in relationship between fans and the club is as much the fans as the clubs fault. The club gets no clear direction as to how the fans feel. They are totally fragmented and from my observation act independently and probably give contradicting opinions to the club. Misguided endeavours like the failed score board fund result from this. You're never going to get a clear agreement amongst supporters except on a very broad basis. Not everyone is going to feel the need for a scoreboard, not everyone will think we should bring back a reserve team etc etc.... Anyway isn't that what the trust is for, everyone turns up at meetings where things are discussed before a general consensus is made. That is then taken forward by the trust rep on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 You don't need consensus but the inability of the score board funding initiative to get above 20k shows just how much the fans feel disconnected from its owners and the club. A top down initiative imposed on the fans proclaiming to be 'owned by the fans'. The trust model does not facilitate true engagement where fans feel a sense of influence and ownership. It is not working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Maybe an Independent Supporters Association could rejuvenate the masses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 So, we're agreed. Get the fans to pay more and cut costs, which usually means the wage bill. So, fewer players/players on lower wages? Fans to have input in the day-to-day running of the club (given the unity shown on this Board, that should be easy). I can now see the attraction of a fan takeover...... The status quo is so appealing, so let's not think of alternatives. I'm willing to move with supporters trust control of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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