opinions4u Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 43 minutes ago, BP1960 said: I assume he was testing the waters with Evian? That would be naive. Backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 12 hours ago, piglinbland said: Not sacked, suspended from his function as manager. And if they decide to keep him on in a lesser role, by law, they can't pay him less than he earns at present. So the only way he can rock up at Oldham is if he resigns - and in doing so he forfeits his wage and eventual severance package. As I say, if he has indeed been courted by our secret investor, it smacks of big money. Not what was said. We won't be paying anybody anything, he just doesn't want to be seen to be getting a new job as it may affect the size of his payout from them. We aren't negotiating to pay anybody any money for him. ps. I don't even want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Corney might have the majority shareholding in the football club but as I have always said (Trust document confirms this) our club is controlled by Blitz and Gazal. Most seem to think Blitz and Gazal have simply poured money into our club but I am not convinced and would want to see the cash flows going both ways. Notwithstanding this they still want to hold onto the controlling debt, if it is not repaid, and this makes a takeover very difficult because the football club has no value beyond its value to us the supporters. Furthermore what little evidence we have is pointing towards a takeover/investment which does not appear have the best interests of the football club as its main motivation. There is much going on that we can see and no doubt the manager, players and staff see much more. This must have impacted on the recruitment of players by the manager and it must be having an impact on our results. We all need this to be sorted one way or another so that football is our primary concern and we have a lot to be concerned about. Another year to just survive if we are lucky...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 40 minutes ago, Hands on said: Corney might have the majority shareholding in the football club but as I have always said (Trust document confirms this) our club is controlled by Blitz and Gazal. Most seem to think Blitz and Gazal have simply poured money into our club but I am not convinced and would want to see the cash flows going both ways. Notwithstanding this they still want to hold onto the controlling debt, if it is not repaid, and this makes a takeover very difficult because the football club has no value beyond its value to us the supporters. Furthermore what little evidence we have is pointing towards a takeover/investment which does not appear have the best interests of the football club as its main motivation. There is much going on that we can see and no doubt the manager, players and staff see much more. This must have impacted on the recruitment of players by the manager and it must be having an impact on our results. We all need this to be sorted one way or another so that football is our primary concern and we have a lot to be concerned about. Another year to just survive if we are lucky...... There is a lot of supposition in that post. At it's core is "what little evidence we have is pointing towards a takeover/investment which does not appear have the best interests of the football club as its main motivation" answers it's own point. We have so little information to go on, it is not possible to make a judgement. We can, and understandably are with our history, fearful and sceptical but it's impossible to make a balanced assesment based on facts thus far. So I think your points are very valid, but the conclusion a little hasty at this point. Not to say it won't pan out like that though. We simply do not know. Oher teams manage to concentrate whilst off the field activities swirl and that is basically down to Shez to manage. I highly doubt it personally, Shez is wily enough.. The team balance and quality is more the issue, backed up by the fact we have played well in parts, just not often enough and for long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 23 minutes ago, singe said: Oher teams manage to concentrate whilst off the field activities swirl and that is basically down to Shez to manage. I highly doubt it personally, Shez is wily enough.. The team balance and quality is more the issue, backed up by the fact we have played well in parts, just not often enough and for long enough. Do they? I'd suggest there's more evidence that they don't... Stockport - Sale Sharks shite Coventry - Ricoh/SISU shite Chartlon - Roland Duchatelet (owner) shite - pigs on the pitch Blackpool - Oystons shite Blackburn - Venkys shite Orient - Francesco Becchetti shite Hull - The Hull Tigers shite that saw them go down. Now bounced back now that stability has returned Bolton - Relegated, sold a car park and Zach Clough to stave off Admin and get promoted, soon to be relegated again Just a handful to mention there.... Not many (I'd suggest none) successful managers to come out of that lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, latics22 said: You have listed the ones that didn't work! There were plenty that did. Every single person is speculating, we pretty much know nothing. Why don't we just wait and see what happens? I haven't speculated about anything there...I've given facts. And those facts support the notion that often there's not a lot a manager can do while the shit circus circulates around them. Can't think of many clubs in turmoil who have had success on the pitch apart from the ones I mentioned like Bolton...who will sink again to our level. If you can run off a list of 5 or 6 like I have, I'll be majorly impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: I haven't speculated about anything there...I've given facts. And those facts support the notion that often there's not a lot a manager can do while the shit circus circulates around them. Can't think of many clubs in turmoil who have had success on the pitch apart from the ones I mentioned like Bolton...who will sink again to our level. If you can run off a list of 5 or 6 like I have, I'll be majorly impressed. Major off the field change (note change, not necessarily turmoil!) and success: Cardiff Bournemouth Swansea City Chelsea Huddersfield Watford There's 7 off the top of my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, oafcmetty said: Major off the field change (note change, not necessarily turmoil!) and success: Cardiff Bournemouth Swansea City Chelsea Huddersfield Watford There's 7 off the top of my head I did say turmoil. Not change. So nice try You're claiming Citeh & Chelsea with their hundreds of millions Cardiff got relegated. What problems have Huddersfield or Swansea had? Seem to have been fairly stable and built steadily over the years. I'll give you Bournemouth at our level. And Watford above. They were in turmoil. So Eddie Howe and a Watford manager are the exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 55 minutes ago, latics22 said: ,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglinbland Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 12 hours ago, opinions4u said: That would be naive. Backwards. My source reckons he bottled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2 hours ago, boundaryblue80 said: Do they? I'd suggest there's more evidence that they don't... Stockport - Sale Sharks shite Coventry - Ricoh/SISU shite Chartlon - Roland Duchatelet (owner) shite - pigs on the pitch Blackpool - Oystons shite Blackburn - Venkys shite Orient - Francesco Becchetti shite Hull - The Hull Tigers shite that saw them go down. Now bounced back now that stability has returned Bolton - Relegated, sold a car park and Zach Clough to stave off Admin and get promoted, soon to be relegated again Just a handful to mention there.... Not many (I'd suggest none) successful managers to come out of that lot. Yes, but they have predominantly moved to serious financial problems, even fraud. It is equally as possible that we may move to having more money ( I know far from certain, but at the moment it is unknown). So I say even then, Northampton by way of an example. Southampton. Reading to a certain extent. Portsmouth. Everton. Leeds Forest Even Blackpools recent court case and boycott has not stopped them climbing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 21 minutes ago, singe said: Yes, but they have predominantly moved to serious financial problems, even fraud. It is equally as possible that we may move to having more money ( I know far from certain, but at the moment it is unknown). So I say even then, Northampton by way of an example. Southampton. Reading to a certain extent. Portsmouth. Everton. Leeds Forest Even Blackpools recent court case and boycott has not stopped them climbing If we are going to have as much money as Everton then Shez can go straight away. I think BB80s trepidatioin is likely to be a lot closer to the outcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 43 minutes ago, singe said: Yes, but they have predominantly moved to serious financial problems, even fraud. It is equally as possible that we may move to having more money ( I know far from certain, but at the moment it is unknown). So I say even then, Northampton by way of an example. Southampton. Reading to a certain extent. Portsmouth. Everton. Leeds Forest Even Blackpools recent court case and boycott has not stopped them climbing So you're just forgetting the part where clubs nosedive but conveniently remember the bit where after they sort themselves, they rise back up the table... Portsmouth fell to the bottom and then sorted their problems and hey presto...they are now rising... Everton, Forest? I can't recall them them been under transfer embargos? Not that I've heard of. They've had change but turmoil...I wouldn't say so. Leeds were in a serious mess, fell to League One and sorted their problems and hey presto are rising again... Southampton...they went into a CVA (after all their problems saw them down to League One...proving my point...) and then a week later paid £1 million for Ricky Lambert. Another one rising after solving their problems. Blackpool is one where I'd say, yeah, fair enough. They did fall to the bottom league but they are still being fucked over by the Oystons and are somehow managing to rise so far. A rarity. When we do get that money (if)....then it's a different ball game. We might rise. Who knows. The point I made that "often there's not a lot a manager can do while the shit circus circulates around them" is evident in most clubs where they are in turmoil, nearly every time they head southwards (before fixing themselves and rising). During that time the manager is often the one to cop the blame. We've unearthed 3 clubs so far where the manager has bucked the trend. It can happen....it's quite rare though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: So you're just forgetting the part where clubs nosedive but conveniently remember the bit where after they sort themselves, they rise back up the table... Portsmouth fell to the bottom and then sorted their problems and hey presto...they are now rising... Everton, Forest? I can't recall them them been under transfer embargos? Not that I've heard of. They've had change but turmoil...I wouldn't say so. Leeds were in a serious mess, fell to League One and sorted their problems and hey presto are rising again... Southampton...they went into a CVA (after all their problems saw them down to League One...proving my point...) and then a week later paid £1 million for Ricky Lambert. Another one rising after solving their problems. Blackpool is one where I'd say, yeah, fair enough. They did fall to the bottom league but they are still being fucked over by the Oystons and are somehow managing to rise so far. A rarity. When we do get that money (if)....then it's a different ball game. We might rise. Who knows. The point I made that "often there's not a lot a manager can do while the shit circus circulates around them" is evident in most clubs where they are in turmoil, nearly every time they head southwards (before fixing themselves and rising). During that time the manager is often the one to cop the blame. We've unearthed 3 clubs so far where the manager has bucked the trend. It can happen....it's quite rare though. The original point was whether clubs sufffered when in the middle of takeovers, rather than the consequences of takeovers. Some do, some don't. I was merely pointing out ones that didn't, during the takeovers. To re-iterate, all the ones I have posted had takeovers in recent years, and during that time, their form did not suffer unduly. And on another post, I said I didn't think our current form was a result of the takeover unsettling the time, and I think Shez can keep us from falling too far behind. As I also said it is too early and not enough fact to make a judgement whether the takeover, if it indeed happens, is good for us or not. And I stated it is right to be cautious and sceptical given our history. But, it's too soon to judge the merits or othewise. Of course, there are dangers and the examples of us and the ones you have given are why we should be cautious. But the point was could a manager shield his players from off the field stuff, and yes he can. As I believe Shez can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 37 minutes ago, singe said: The original point was whether clubs sufffered when in the middle of takeovers, rather than the consequences of takeovers. Some do, some don't. I was merely pointing out ones that didn't, during the takeovers. To re-iterate, all the ones I have posted had takeovers in recent years, and during that time, their form did not suffer unduly. And on another post, I said I didn't think our current form was a result of the takeover unsettling the time, and I think Shez can keep us from falling too far behind. As I also said it is too early and not enough fact to make a judgement whether the takeover, if it indeed happens, is good for us or not. And I stated it is right to be cautious and sceptical given our history. But, it's too soon to judge the merits or othewise. Of course, there are dangers and the examples of us and the ones you have given are why we should be cautious. But the point was could a manager shield his players from off the field stuff, and yes he can. As I believe Shez can. Thank you for confirming that we were talking at crossed-purposes. I was talking to Latics22 about clubs in turmoil. You were discussing clubs having takeovers. There is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 22 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: Thank you for confirming that we were talking at crossed-purposes. I was talking to Latics22 about clubs in turmoil. You were discussing clubs having takeovers. There is a difference. 100% agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philliggi Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 This is getting boring now. Just sell The bastard club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Perimeter West Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Ex England ladies manager sign him up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ndl1ne Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Reckon it's all just a ruse to get some players on contract and we get stuc paying their wages whilst he doesn't follow through with anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 52 minutes ago, b0ndl1ne said: Reckon it's all just a ruse to get some players on contract and we get stuc paying their wages whilst he doesn't follow through with anything Funny you should say that - http://www.20minutes.fr/nantes/2127307-20170906-fc-nantes-deux-hommes-ombre-fait-mercato I'm not sure on the translation... Quote The Moroccan Abdallah Lemsagam . He is much more discreet. The actors of football want to talk about it, but anonymously. On the web, very little information emerges about him. By typing his name, however, there are photos of Abdallah Lemsagam with Arsene Wenger or Diego Maradona. In particular, he learned that in 2012 he created a football academy in Morocco with Jean-Marc Guillou, the former Angers player, and he is CEO of a company ( Sport JLT 2 ) as an agent official FIFA. Abdallah Lemsagam is known to have handled much of the player transfers to Qatar and the United Arab Emirates in the 2000s. Pitroipa, Jirès Kembo-Ekoko, Fiendouno, Moussa Sow ... He calls himself "Marco" in France Gilles Favard (ex-adviser of the Nantes president) presented this character to President Waldemar Kita between 2009 and 2011. The two men have always stayed in touch. But this summer, Marco - as he calls himself in France - has got a little closer to the President of Nantes. It was he who made the link between the latter and Ranieri. "He presented himself this summer as counselor of WK," says a French agent. It is an unavoidable element of the Kita sphere. He is very intelligent. And speaks many languages. A sulphurous reputation, however, escorts him. "It (he?) opens the doors of clubs by making believe that it (he?) will bring foreign investors and it (he?) does business, " said another representative of players. In Nantes this summer, he would be behind the records Girotto and Pereira de Sa (PSG player who is with the reserve). And maybe the Dutch winger Menig, bought by the FCN then loaned to Oldham? And for good reason: according to the English press , Abdallah Lemsagam would try to buy part of this English club D3 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, jorvik_latic said: Funny you should say that - http://www.20minutes.fr/nantes/2127307-20170906-fc-nantes-deux-hommes-ombre-fait-mercato I'm not sure on the translation... I know the translation can be ropey and mean th eopposite sometimes. This is the unexplained part of the whole thing for me. Simon corney was not forced to reveal the potential buyer, he announced it. SC is known for keeping most of the dealings under wraps. Agents are notoriously secretive too (except to promote a players but even that is behind the scenes briefing normally). None of this need have come out unless much further along the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozman Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 19 minutes ago, jorvik_latic said: 19 minutes ago, jorvik_latic said: Quote A sulphurous reputation, however, escorts him. "It (he?) opens the doors of clubs by making believe that it (he?) will bring foreign investors and it (he?) does business, " said another representative of players. In Nantes this summer, he would be behind the records Girotto and Pereira de Sa (PSG player who is with the reserve). And maybe the Dutch winger Menig, bought by the FCN then loaned to Oldham? And for good reason: according to the English press , Abdallah Lemsagam would try to buy part of this English club D3 ... Now that is worrying! However, I just don't believe Corney would have parted with the cash for all these foreign players himself without some sort of concrete commitment/deposit being paid over to fund it. Because clearly the club in it's current state cannot fund the wages of a squad of 30 from income alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nohairdontcare Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 23 minutes ago, singe said: I know the translation can be ropey and mean th eopposite sometimes. This is the unexplained part of the whole thing for me. Simon corney was not forced to reveal the potential buyer, he announced it. SC is known for keeping most of the dealings under wraps. Agents are notoriously secretive too (except to promote a players but even that is behind the scenes briefing normally). None of this need have come out unless much further along the line. The Chron were on to it though. He had to say something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 32 minutes ago, bozman said: Now that is worrying! However, I just don't believe Corney would have parted with the cash for all these foreign players himself without some sort of concrete commitment/deposit being paid over to fund it. Because clearly the club in it's current state cannot fund the wages of a squad of 30 from income alone. Corney has stated previously that a deposit had been paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozman Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 22 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: Corney has stated previously that a deposit had been paid Yeah, I thought so. I was pretty sure he mentioned it in his video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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