League one forever Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Would a better manager have been less scatter gun with signings and placed more emphasis on coaching, improving & organising what he already had though? Yes. 100% 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Maybe he's turning into a lucky manager rather than just a bad one.... It’s become clear why he joined, because he knew that normal parameters won’t apply for him. In many ways it’s an absolute plum job. Learn your trade. Get everything you ask for. Win the bare amount to do ok. Be under no pressure. Then, if the time comes- walk away saying- I did a great job at Oldham to stabilise them. (Ignoring the relatively huge backing) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, League one forever said: It’s become clear why he joined, because he knew that normal parameters won’t apply for him. In many ways it’s an absolute plum job. Learn your trade. Get everything you ask for. Win the bare amount to do ok. Be under no pressure. Then, if the time comes- walk away saying- I did a great job at Oldham to stabilise them. (Ignoring the relatively huge backing) He's a bit Scholes-like to me in that, whilst at Everton and after getting sacked, he didn't seem to be busting a gut to follow a dream of football management. Apart from maybe the Everton job itself. That never sat right with me from the off. Almost as if he's doing a favour for Joe.... Edited January 30, 2023 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, League one forever said: It’s become clear why he joined, because he knew that normal parameters won’t apply for him. Somebody new to this forum would think gosh, he is well informed. Regular viewers will know that is only his opinion and he knows no more than you me and the sideboard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, League one forever said: In many ways it’s an absolute plum job. It's been a plum job for years. Under the Lemsegams there was never any expectation (other than to deal with the Lemsegams..) which is why managers kept taking the job on. Do what you can and get paid off after a few months. We need to change the mentality that it's an easy gig. A year of bedding in for all concerned this year and proper expectation next season should be the agenda... 36 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: He's a bit Scholes-like to me in that, whilst at Everton and after getting sacked, he didn't seem to be busting a gut to follow a dream of football management. Apart from maybe the Everton job itself. That never sat right with me from the off. Almost as if he's doing a favour for Joe.... He touted himself about for other jobs, but no one else wanted him. I do wonder why... Not sure who is doing who the favour. We've given him (and his coaches) a decent contract. There would surely be a load of more experienced/more hungry options who would have come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, whittles left foot said: Somebody new to this forum would think gosh, he is well informed. Regular viewers will know that is only his opinion and he knows no more than you me and the sideboard. You’re right- except for the part where he said when he joined- that he turned down other offers to join us. . . He then went onto say - that it had to be the right opportunity, somewhere he could build something. He then onto say that knowing Joe was a massive factor. Why would you turn down offers from further up the ladder and risk getting fired (where does he go if he fails with us??) if you didn’t have assurances that you wouldn’t be sacked if you struggled. What I didn’t realise was how low bar is for his success (Frank told Marc White at Dorking the target this season is to avoid relegation) and how much the board were/are prepared to back that up- because up until very recently his run was absolutely dire, and he was kept on. Further backing the notion that he is as close to unsackable as it gets. I don’t claim to be in the know, but comments that are in the public domain and reality of how things have panned out, mean it’s fairly obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, League one forever said: You’re right- except for the part where he said when he joined- that he turned down other offers to join us. . . He then went onto say - that it had to be the right opportunity, somewhere he could build something. He then onto say that knowing Joe was a massive factor. Why would you turn down offers from further up the ladder and risk getting fired (where does he go if he fails with us??) if you didn’t have assurances that you wouldn’t be sacked if you struggled. What I didn’t realise was how low bar is for his success (Frank told Marc White at Dorking the target this season is to avoid relegation) and how much the board were/are prepared to back that up- because up until very recently his run was absolutely dire, and he was kept on. Further backing the notion that he is as close to unsackable as it gets. I don’t claim to be in the know, but comments that are in the public domain and reality of how things have panned out, mean it’s fairly obvious. He wouldn't survive another 3 wins in 20 run though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggleblue Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, deyres42 said: He wouldn't survive another 3 wins in 20 run though. I don't mind that he's a shit manager because he is, as long as he learns and quickly. At the moment he's got away with murder. Next few games will tell if he's right or if we are. 2 defeats to Gateshead will seal it for me. 3-4 wins in the next few games and I'll support him and give more time to complete his learning. Otherwise OUT. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 25 minutes ago, deyres42 said: He wouldn't survive another 3 wins in 20 run though. No, true. Because that would mean we’d be relegated, and he failed to hit the extraordinary low target set for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) Maybe Frank was stating the bleeding obvious in saying "Avoiding relegation". If that target is achieved this season, I think it will be a few seasons before promotion becomes feasible, with Unsworth at the helm. * * I forgot to add..if at all. Edited January 30, 2023 by Wardie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 2 hours ago, League one forever said: You’re right- except for the part where he said when he joined- that he turned down other offers to join us. . . He then went onto say - that it had to be the right opportunity, somewhere he could build something. He then onto say that knowing Joe was a massive factor. 3 points twisted round and can be viewed completely the other way round. He said he's turned down offers before, not offers turned down to join us. Whats wrong with him saying it has to be the right opportunity to build something? We are a massive rebuilding job all round. Yes maybe knowing joe gave him confidence he would be coming in to good owners who were in for the long haul to complete a rebuild Can't see how anyone takes issue with any of these things 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 6 hours ago, HarryBosch said: Maybe he's turning into a lucky manager rather than just a bad one.... Cardinal Mazarin (French 17th c Cardinal). One must not ask of a General, if he is skillful, but rather is he lucky? Give me a lucky manager rather than a skillful one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, mcfluff1985 said: 3 points twisted round and can be viewed completely the other way round. He said he's turned down offers before, not offers turned down to join us. Whats wrong with him saying it has to be the right opportunity to build something? We are a massive rebuilding job all round. Yes maybe knowing joe gave him confidence he would be coming in to good owners who were in for the long haul to complete a rebuild Can't see how anyone takes issue with any of these things I’m just saying he’s struck gold with our owners/board. In my view they have gone above and beyond for him. How many managers in the top 5 divisions can survive a run of 3 wins in 20? By comparison- Kolo Toure got sacked at Wigan last week for 1 win 9 I think it was. There is irrefutable reasons he is still in a job after that. 1. He’s been given assurance that as long as we don’t go down this season, he’s ok. Frank said that is the target to Marc White. 2. He very good friends with the board. 3. They’re trying to give him as much leeway to make a go of it. What do you think our budget is? We have 35+ players, and have started paying £100k fees for players. I’d say it’s at least top 7. We’re currently 21st. So, he’s effectively got a gig where he won’t get sacked if he finishes 21st- with a top 7 budget. Not bad work if you can get it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, League one forever said: We’re currently 21st. I’ll have you know we are 20th!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollandspies Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 I remain concerned that we have so many peripheral players still picking up a wage that’s preventing us from strengthening in the key areas that we have already identified. To me, It’s fairly clear that Stobbs, Burgess, Angol, Porter, Gardner, McGahey and Maynard are all now ‘surplus to requirements’ and are unlikely to feature again anytime soon in a 16 man match day squad. Is this issue holding us back from signing the 2 or 3 key additions we really need to completely alleviate the worry of relegation whilst guaranteeing the optimism of a real challenge next season? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flemboy Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 58 minutes ago, hollandspies said: I remain concerned that we have so many peripheral players still picking up a wage that’s preventing us from strengthening in the key areas that we have already identified. To me, It’s fairly clear that Stobbs, Burgess, Angol, Porter, Gardner, McGahey and Maynard are all now ‘surplus to requirements’ and are unlikely to feature again anytime soon in a 16 man match day squad. Is this issue holding us back from signing the 2 or 3 key additions we really need to completely alleviate the worry of relegation whilst guaranteeing the optimism of a real challenge next season? Same for me.Too much deadwood need getting rid off .Need quality not quantity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 5 hours ago, League one forever said: I’m just saying he’s struck gold with our owners/board. In my view they have gone above and beyond for him. How many managers in the top 5 divisions can survive a run of 3 wins in 20? By comparison- Kolo Toure got sacked at Wigan last week for 1 win 9 I think it was. There is irrefutable reasons he is still in a job after that. 1. He’s been given assurance that as long as we don’t go down this season, he’s ok. Frank said that is the target to Marc White. 2. He very good friends with the board. 3. They’re trying to give him as much leeway to make a go of it. What do you think our budget is? We have 35+ players, and have started paying £100k fees for players. I’d say it’s at least top 7. We’re currently 21st. So, he’s effectively got a gig where he won’t get sacked if he finishes 21st- with a top 7 budget. Not bad work if you can get it. He didn't walk into a top 7 budget or squad, the squad in particular was more bottom 7. The wage bill has obviously increased in the meantime through necessity but the squad still isn't a top 7 one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 5 hours ago, hollandspies said: I remain concerned that we have so many peripheral players still picking up a wage that’s preventing us from strengthening in the key areas that we have already identified. To me, It’s fairly clear that Stobbs, Burgess, Angol, Porter, Gardner, McGahey and Maynard are all now ‘surplus to requirements’ and are unlikely to feature again anytime soon in a 16 man match day squad. Is this issue holding us back from signing the 2 or 3 key additions we really need to completely alleviate the worry of relegation whilst guaranteeing the optimism of a real challenge next season? And the solution? Paying them off aint going to free up budget. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, deyres42 said: He didn't walk into a top 7 budget or squad, the squad in particular was more bottom 7. The wage bill has obviously increased in the meantime through necessity but the squad still isn't a top 7 one. Look at the Woking squad and then come back to me, Rob... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 30 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: Look at the Woking squad and then come back to me, Rob... There are often exceptions to the rules Pat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 40 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: Look at the Woking squad and then come back to me, Rob... Experienced manager at this level? Got the job 5 months before the season started? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 8 hours ago, League one forever said: I’m just saying he’s struck gold with our owners/board. In my view they have gone above and beyond for him. How many managers in the top 5 divisions can survive a run of 3 wins in 20? By comparison- Kolo Toure got sacked at Wigan last week for 1 win 9 I think it was. There is irrefutable reasons he is still in a job after that. 1. He’s been given assurance that as long as we don’t go down this season, he’s ok. Frank said that is the target to Marc White. 2. He very good friends with the board. 3. They’re trying to give him as much leeway to make a go of it. What do you think our budget is? We have 35+ players, and have started paying £100k fees for players. I’d say it’s at least top 7. We’re currently 21st. So, he’s effectively got a gig where he won’t get sacked if he finishes 21st- with a top 7 budget. Not bad work if you can get it. It’s very possible that the staying up line from Frank to Marc White was reacting to the situation as it was on the day as opposed to it being Unsworth’s target from day 1. If we pull away Frank could have the same conversation in a month’s time and say the aim is top half. Also where is it reported that he’s been given assurances that he’ll be ok as long as we don’t get relegated? And has been pointed out elsewhere, he wasn’t handed a top 7 budget in May. It was mid December by the time the majority of recruitment was done, so it’s also possible that the board said to Unsworth that he’ll be judged properly from that point onwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Shez without budget - 14th. Unsworth with budget - 20th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, JoeP said: Shez without budget - 14th. Unsworth with budget - 20th. Sheri - 700+ games managed Unsworth - less than 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Sheri - 700+ games managed Unsworth - less than 20 So better, then.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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