LightDN123 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 43 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said: Was that from the start when he scored on his debut? Must have been the game after, when he also scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 hours ago, BP1960 said: Yarney looks as though he can play anywhere, he certainly wouldn't let defenders settle and I bet would score more goals. However he's doing fine in defence so it won't happen. 3 hours ago, yarddog73 said: I honestly reckon Sutton would be as effective as Nuttall upfront, he really doesn't have any stand out attributes for me. List his strengths then and I'll pay particular attention to them when we play at the weekend, I'm obviously missing something that others are seeing. Not going to continue the subject with people who would rather play a centre back upfront. Let’s see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 5 hours ago, Hemel latic said: I see where you're coming from. You get this in cricket where people want to discount big scores from a batting average which strikes me as very unfair although I know weighted averages are gaining in popularity as the game becomes more data driven/focused. But in football I do think there's merit in looking at goals from open play. Although there's undoubtedly a skill in taking a penalty it isn't to the same extent as place kicking in either rugby code, where you know your goal kicker will be called on to kick goals on a number of occasions during a match. So it seems entirely reasonable to point to Nuttall having scored 5 goals from open play in 36 appearances this season. A penalty is a chance created by a team or individual and it needs someone to finish it off. It takes skill and nerve. Yes goals have varying degree difficulty but they all count the same. Besides, if I was ranking types of goals in order of difficulty I wouldn’t even put a penalty at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le miserable1 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 You are correct of course,but a number 9 should be scoring more than 4 in 36 in open play,and I have watched every game he has played.HE WONT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le miserable1 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 I agree with yardogg that Sutton,Clarke,yarney,kitcken,fondop,Timmy,Foreshaw,even my dog would not slow down when it got near a defender,fraud!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le miserable1 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 I am old enough to remember the likes of Lister and Johnstone,I have watched the good the bad and the ugly play for our club,my uncle was a centre forward in the Manchester ametuer league and was courted by Leicester,he was100 times better than joe nuttall,he turned Leicester down,they won the fa cup that year!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le miserable1 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 His main attribute is running 30 yards to close down a centre half only to slow down when he gets within 5 yards. Watch out for that come Saturday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, LightDN123 said: Not going to continue the subject with people who would rather play a centre back upfront. Let’s see what happens. Dont mention Ian Marshall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, BP1960 said: Dont mention Ian Marshall. Or Paul Warhurst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penrhyn Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 10 hours ago, penrhyn said: Well, facts can sometimes be boring. Yes, Nuttall scored in his first 2 games (one a penalty) and since then he's scored 1 (a penalty) in 14 league games and 0 in 9 league games. I don't worry about his work rate, how much he closes down, tracks back, etc. Gerd Muller wasn't often seen outside the six yard box or penalty area and he was a goalscoring genius. Nuttall's there to score goals and he doesn't seem to be doing so. As for the penalty v open play scoring debate, of course it still takes skill and nerve to score a penalty at any point in a match. However, a good striker should always expect to score them, especially when goalkeepers are rightly required to stay on their line. Also, you would hope your team would create many more goalscoring opportunities than get penalties awarded. It's a bit of a moot point considering that Nuttall isn't scoring at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: Nuttall's there to score goals and he doesn't seem to be doing so. 'doesn't seem to be doing so'? I'd say that he isn't doing so! 'Scoring goals is the main reason why he is there but if you listen to Unsworth, there is more that he is asked to do when he crosses the white line. Dave speaks of his ability to occupy the Centre backs and his aerial ability when defending set pieces and corners. It is often the case that strikers go through phases where goals are hard to come by - Nuttall is no different. Its just that his body language and general movement on and off the ball lacks urgency. I want him to do well but maybe he needs to work a little harder to get the goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: 'doesn't seem to be doing so'? I'd say that he isn't doing so! 'Scoring goals is the main reason why he is there but if you listen to Unsworth, there is more that he is asked to do when he crosses the white line. Dave speaks of his ability to occupy the Centre backs and his aerial ability when defending set pieces and corners. It is often the case that strikers go through phases where goals are hard to come by - Nuttall is no different. Its just that his body language and general movement on and off the ball lacks urgency. I want him to do well but maybe he needs to work a little harder to get the goals. I was trying to be diplomatic I do get that it's a different game nowadays and strikers are supposed to do lots of other things besides score goals. But Nuttall did arrive with something of a reputation for scoring and for decent money (not his fault but....) and to date the return is disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: Well, facts can sometimes be boring. Yes, Nuttall scored in his first 2 games (one a penalty) and since then he's scored 1 (a penalty) in 14 league games and 0 in 9 league games. I don't worry about his work rate, how much he closes down, tracks back, etc. Gerd Muller wasn't often seen outside the six yard box or penalty area and he was a goalscoring genius. Nuttall's there to score goals and he doesn't seem to be doing so. As for the penalty v open play scoring debate, of course it still takes skill and nerve to score a penalty at any point in a match. However, a good striker should always expect to score them, especially when goalkeepers are rightly required to stay on their line. Also, you would hope your team would create many more goalscoring opportunities than get penalties awarded. It's a bit of a moot point considering that Nuttall isn't scoring at all. I think we're looking at this a little narrow mindedly. If next season we go up with Nuttall playing 46 games I wouldn't care if he scores 5, 10 or 20 goals. Yes ideally we'd all like a 30 goal a season striker who is a great team player too, but at this point and at this level, it's about how the team is performing moreso than what stats any individual may have. Just to clarify, I'm not saying Nuttall doesn't warrant any criticism, but I don't see a lazy, ineffective player as many describe. I see someone who works hard for the team but is a bit short of confidence and also hasn't had much in the way of supply given our current style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Whilst noting that he defends corners well and drops effortlessly into midfield when we're under pressure he just seems to be a little bit on the "back foot" to be a striker. A decent striker is eager to get into the box at every opportunity as that's where most goals are scored but he seems to coast through a game. I still prefer him to start and Fondop replace him after about an hour if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 1 hour ago, nzlatic said: I think we're looking at this a little narrow mindedly. If next season we go up with Nuttall playing 46 games I wouldn't care if he scores 5, 10 or 20 goals. Yes ideally we'd all like a 30 goal a season striker who is a great team player too, but at this point and at this level, it's about how the team is performing moreso than what stats any individual may have. Just to clarify, I'm not saying Nuttall doesn't warrant any criticism, but I don't see a lazy, ineffective player as many describe. I see someone who works hard for the team but is a bit short of confidence and also hasn't had much in the way of supply given our current style of play. I don’t understand how people can say he’s lazy or lacking any urgency and doesn’t compete. His body language isn’t the most exaggerated, maybe that the reason he gets picked up on it. Oldham fans love a runner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: Whilst noting that he defends corners well and drops effortlessly into midfield when we're under pressure he just seems to be a little bit on the "back foot" to be a striker. A decent striker is eager to get into the box at every opportunity as that's where most goals are scored but he seems to coast through a game. I still prefer him to start and Fondop replace him after about an hour if necessary. Could he become the National League Joelinton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 1 hour ago, nzlatic said: I think we're looking at this a little narrow mindedly. If next season we go up with Nuttall playing 46 games I wouldn't care if he scores 5, 10 or 20 goals. Yes ideally we'd all like a 30 goal a season striker who is a great team player too, but at this point and at this level, it's about how the team is performing moreso than what stats any individual may have. Just to clarify, I'm not saying Nuttall doesn't warrant any criticism, but I don't see a lazy, ineffective player as many describe. I see someone who works hard for the team but is a bit short of confidence and also hasn't had much in the way of supply given our current style of play. I observe the number of times he runs for the ball to challenge and just falls short of getting there. Easy pickings for defenders and not my type of striker. If he shows more I'll give him deserved praise. IMO DU is protecting a player he signed, but that shouldn't mean he carries on with little contribution. Watch what he does closely and you will see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, BP1960 said: I observe the number of times he runs for the ball to challenge and just falls short of getting there. Easy pickings for defenders and not my type of striker. If he shows more I'll give him deserved praise. IMO DU is protecting a player he signed, but that shouldn't mean he carries on with little contribution. Watch what he does closely and you will see what I mean. Right, will have a watch Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, BP1960 said: I observe the number of times he runs for the ball to challenge and just falls short of getting there. Easy pickings for defenders and not my type of striker. If he shows more I'll give him deserved praise. IMO DU is protecting a player he signed, but that shouldn't mean he carries on with little contribution. Watch what he does closely and you will see what I mean. He has a languid style, which doesn't help as people like to see more obvious effort. Could it be that he plays the way he does to maintain a consistent effort level over 90 minutes, therefore doesn't run about at 100mph smashing people over and tiring himself out? To be clear if needed, I'm not saying he's without fault. He just doesn't look like a 20 goal a season type of striker, more like one that contributes to the team performance. Maybe he would benefit from a break out of the side but I don't think there's another player in the squad that does what he does. Fondop is more about 20 minutes of explosive activity than a 90 minute performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, nzlatic said: He has a languid style, which doesn't help as people like to see more obvious effort. Could it be that he plays the way he does to maintain a consistent effort level over 90 minutes, therefore doesn't run about at 100mph smashing people over and tiring himself out? To be clear if needed, I'm not saying he's without fault. He just doesn't look like a 20 goal a season type of striker, more like one that contributes to the team performance. Maybe he would benefit from a break out of the side but I don't think there's another player in the squad that does what he does. Fondop is more about 20 minutes of explosive activity than a 90 minute performance. But can you let me know how many assists he has made since he came here? If the manager thinks he's good at defending maybe he'd be better off playing as a defensive midfielder or centre back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, BP1960 said: But can you let me know how many assists he has made since he came here? If the manager thinks he's good at defending maybe he'd be better off playing as a defensive midfielder or centre back? Umm none, according to https://www.playmakerstats.com/ People seem to be missing the point that there's different types of "striker". Not everyone is going to be a poacher or fox in the box type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 47 minutes ago, LightDN123 said: I don’t understand how people can say he’s lazy or lacking any urgency and doesn’t compete. 25 minutes ago, nzlatic said: He has a languid style, which doesn't help as people like to see more obvious effort. Could it be that he plays the way he does to maintain a consistent effort level over 90 minutes? I can understand the views that point out his lack of urgency @LightDN123 - he definitely, as @nzlatic suggests, seems to be pacing himself throughout the full ninety. I have watched him play now in many games. He could do more and I genuinely believe that by doing so he will get far greater reward for his effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 25 minutes ago, BP1960 said: But can you let me know how many assists he has made since he came here? If the manager thinks he's good at defending maybe he'd be better off playing as a defensive midfielder or centre back? I'm not trying to argue with you BP, just trying to understand and offer some other points of view about what players might be contributing to the team other than what the numbers on their stats page show. Nuttall may flourish next season with better players around him and with a team more focussed on creating chances for strikers. Or he may not. Either way, too many have written him off now as being lazy as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le miserable1 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 As I said earlier in this thread, never quite gets to the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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