Guest Scratch2000uk Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Thanks for all sincerely held views.....Reality is "He who pays the piper calls the tune" Fantasy is ...well whatever you want it to be. Trust members are paying the piper and getting a two finger salute though. If you like being treated like a annonymous non entity, then fine. Personally, I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Trust members are paying the piper and getting a two finger salute though. If you like being treated like a anonymous non entity, then fine. Personally, I don't. I agree. Thanks for all sincerely held views.....Reality is "He who pays the piper calls the tune" Fantasy is ...well whatever you want it to be. Get back in line then, drone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I find it quite hard to belive that trust duties take up six hours per day. Nothing ever gets done ffs. It doesn't - I know lots of people who hold down day jobs and run charities , sit as Directors on boards of companies, act as School Governers. It's extra work but not full time work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) To be honest, from Barry's posts I'm not sure what he sees to be the Trust's objectives. It sounds a little as if he's saying that they get to see what's happening but can't actually influence anything (which is probably not far from the truth). He says the Trust tries to learn; well, from where I'm standing, Barry seems to have done more learning of the club's perspective on things than educating the club as to the fans' views. He says they try to influence; but based on what? If they don't consult with the fans, how do they determine the right way in which they try to influence decisions at the club? Barry's visits to 'this site', as he refers to it with a hint of bitterness, tend only to be when he feels the need to tell the fans how to behave or when the criticism of his performance gets too much for him. My biggest issue with him, and the Trust as a whole, is that it's all well and good responding to criticism with 'if you've got something to say, then you just have to get in touch... ' whilst taking no steps whatsoever, as far as I can see, to positively engage the fans. The website is a pile of :censored:, completely out of date and of no use to anyone. 'This site' set up, at the Trust's request, a Trust sub forum - they didn't use it. When I was a member (or at least I think I was), a few years back, I received nothing from them, not even a confirmation of my membership. The vast majority have no idea how the Trust is structured, how that structure has been determined, how they might influence it, nor even who the current directors are. Frankly, in my eyes the Trust as it stands is a complete waste of time. People can say 'put up and shut up' all they want but the many of us don't have the time Barry et al do, it doesn't mean we shouldn't voice our opinion. Then people say that you should join the Trust if you expect to have a say, well I tried and they didn't even acknowledge me, so why would I pay another membership fee? The Mike Nuttall case was the last straw for me. The Trust was already failing in what I see as it's most important role of being a voice of the fans in the club 's boardroom (although Barry's always very keen to talk that down versus its other functions). Far too big a majority of fans had already lost faith in the Trust, so to find that it's finance bod was using his fellow fans' donations to bail out his ailing business was the icing on the cake. For the avoidance of doubt, I like the idea of what the Trust is supposed to be (at least as I see it). But I can't see it ever being any such thing. I certaintly don't like the sniping at thre Trust of various people, including yourself Stevie. However, I 100% respect that you, Rummy, Ackey and probably others, have vastly more interaction with the club than me. But I am very impressed with this post, laying out the frustrations for all to see. It is hard not to disagree with anything that you say. My added suggestion for inprovement is also backing up the lack of communication and engagement from the Trust. I pay a £1amount regularly. I dont expect endless letters and such like (that would be a waste) but a quarterly email would surely help, particularly on what is going on and what minutes there are. I'd even be happy with a simple Twitter account, with the odd snippet every now and then to inform. I'd be very interested to see the accounts, as I can only see the money raised 10 years ago, and very little since. To be active, I agree with you, the Trust needs to reach out, rather than sit and wait to be contacted. The real danger is that people see that Trust involvement as a few meetings with navel gazing and not much else and so are put off involvement. The onus is on the Trust to braodcast what it does, as you imply. I am not hyper critical of the Trust, as I cannot contribute anything appearance wise. But if it is something I can do from afar, such as keep a database up to date or mailing or sometihng like that, I am more than happy to lend my bit of time. I would happily undertake the Twitter account, if provided with the info. I am sure a bit by lots of people is easier than lots by a few. I have done some campaiging locally( against housing development) and it is simply true 99% of people are apathetic, and it is very difficult to engage people, the Trust have my respect for how difficult that is. Could I also suggest a list of things that need organising, and, maybe poeople will step forward if there is a little bit that can be done. Edited February 13, 2014 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Alex (Metty). Having been a Director yourself I think you do your former colleagues a great dis-service by suggestion that membership of he Board is just a matter of attending a few meeting. Whilst that may have been your own experience for the short term you served I can assure you that Directors spend a great deal of time away from meetings in trying to raise money etc., along with many other tasks Sorry Barry - I meant that the Trust Director who was fan rep on the Board didn't strictly have to do much more than attend the club board meetings (for that part of the role anyway). I know that the other directors are responsible for various other bits and pieces which I'm sure take up a fair amount of time. The point is that it shouldn't *need* someone to have a free 5 or 6 hours a day to act as the fan rep on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I have done some campaiging locally( against housing development) and it is simply true 99% of people are apathetic, and it is very difficult to engage people, the Trust have my respect for how difficult that is. Nimby eh? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngen Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It doesn't - I know lots of people who hold down day jobs and run charities , sit as Directors on boards of companies, act as School Governers. It's extra work but not full time work. Answer any emails/ make a few phone calls finding out what meetings are scheduled, attend a couple of meetings a week if that, relay the meeting minutes back to the Trust/fans, get pissed at the match on a Saturday entertaining away teams (does this count as own time, as we all do the same just not in the warmth) thats really all the job entails as far as I can see. If you choose to do 6 hours a day then you're obviously doing something additional to the role as Trust director, I'm guessing stuff SC wants done. Then you easily get sucked into thinking you work for the club and not the fans. Basically becoming a yes man. Its a vicious circle, one that someone with not a right lot better to do would get dragged into. Lets face it, Barry does a little bit for us, organising these one to ones etc, but if someone else took his role, then SC wouldnt care a jot about the new guy as they wouldnt be his whipping boy and the interface between fan and club would diminish completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 but if someone else took his role, then SC wouldnt care a jot about the new guy as they wouldnt be his whipping boy and the interface between fan and club would diminish completely. Disagree - that person would have the right to sit in on board meetings regardless of what Simon thinks. Admittedly in practice there has to be some sort of working relationship, but there's absolutely no reason that the person in the role has to be a 'yes man' (and that's not a dig at you Barry, before you have a go!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Nimby eh? ;) Fully paid up memeber! Though to be fair more of a Nioby, Not in our backyard, as I am not directly affected. In my case its all logialc. It's currently under 4 feet of water, and floods every year. But still the Council are going to approve 300 houses behind it, with a gentle slope to the flooding area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 there's absolutely no reason that the person in the role has to be a 'yes man' (and that's not a dig at you Barry, before you have a go!). And there's no reason that the person needs to work day to day at the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryowen Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 No problems Alex. As you know there are days you are and days you are not. !!!!!!!. The nature of the role. Hope you are well. Still a place for you on board. !! Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Barry I looked at the trust website today. I couldn't find any details of the next AGM, the last AGM or indeed any AGM. The only section which provides information on funds raised refers to "TTA" as the owners, so it is probably significantly out- of date. I used to be a member, but I've lapsed. Given the limited information being provided to those who are not members, what is being done to show that the trust is active, effective and worth joining? Regards Nigel In addition to posting this on here, I also sent the same questions to the Trust through their "Contact Us" page. I haven't had a response. Is the trust just a shell that collects subscriptions but doesn't actually do anything? Is it time for someone to set up an active trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartzatart Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I don't know why people entertain this clown, he's all about himself. He was 'elected' as the fans representative but chose to manipulate that responsibility for his own egotistical gain! Makes no difference if his time is unpaid and voluntary, his five minutes of fame is all the reward he craves! Absolutely sold the Trust and all it stood for, down the river....time to move on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I certaintly don't like the sniping at thre Trust of various people, including yourself Stevie. However, I 100% respect that you, Rummy, Ackey and probably others, have vastly more interaction with the club than me. But I am very impressed with this post, laying out the frustrations for all to see. It is hard not to disagree with anything that you say. My added suggestion for inprovement is also backing up the lack of communication and engagement from the Trust. I pay a £1amount regularly. I dont expect endless letters and such like (that would be a waste) but a quarterly email would surely help, particularly on what is going on and what minutes there are. I'd even be happy with a simple Twitter account, with the odd snippet every now and then to inform. I'd be very interested to see the accounts, as I can only see the money raised 10 years ago, and very little since. To be active, I agree with you, the Trust needs to reach out, rather than sit and wait to be contacted. The real danger is that people see that Trust involvement as a few meetings with navel gazing and not much else and so are put off involvement. The onus is on the Trust to braodcast what it does, as you imply. I am not hyper critical of the Trust, as I cannot contribute anything appearance wise. But if it is something I can do from afar, such as keep a database up to date or mailing or sometihng like that, I am more than happy to lend my bit of time. I would happily undertake the Twitter account, if provided with the info. I am sure a bit by lots of people is easier than lots by a few. I have done some campaiging locally( against housing development) and it is simply true 99% of people are apathetic, and it is very difficult to engage people, the Trust have my respect for how difficult that is. Could I also suggest a list of things that need organising, and, maybe poeople will step forward if there is a little bit that can be done. Surely in any constituted organisation accounts are audited annually and presented at the AGM ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The trust website is currently off line while the server provider redstar looks at a new platform that can be used. At present I do not have acces to the Admin Panel to receive message or change details. There will be a trust AGM within the next month or so once the accounts have been signed off and submitted. I will personally detail the AGM date,venue and time on this forum and invite anyone interested to attend. I was also nominate anyone who wants to join the trust so that you can be put forward! The trust does not have enough people to do the jobs as we are short of numbers. This isn't a put up or shut up statement it is a request for help. Due to this reminder of website failure I will contact redstar over the weekend to get the new site up ASAP ! When things are done as a favour they are often over looked ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The trust website is currently off line while the server provider redstar looks at a new platform that can be used. At present I do not have acces to the Admin Panel to receive message or change details. There will be a trust AGM within the next month or so once the accounts have been signed off and submitted. I will personally detail the AGM date,venue and time on this forum and invite anyone interested to attend. I was also nominate anyone who wants to join the trust so that you can be put forward! The trust does not have enough people to do the jobs as we are short of numbers. This isn't a put up or shut up statement it is a request for help. Due to this reminder of website failure I will contact redstar over the weekend to get the new site up ASAP ! When things are done as a favour they are often over looked ! Excellent reply, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw_oldh857 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 your host for this evening it's smartztart it's 10 o,clock it's Thursday ... it's the lets bash Barry show again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 your host for this evening it's smartztart it's 10 o,clock it's Thursday ... it's the lets bash Barry show againThere are so many repeats, nowadays... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The trust website is currently off line while the server provider redstar looks at a new platform that can be used. At present I do not have acces to the Admin Panel to receive message or change details. There will be a trust AGM within the next month or so once the accounts have been signed off and submitted. I will personally detail the AGM date,venue and time on this forum and invite anyone interested to attend. I was also nominate anyone who wants to join the trust so that you can be put forward! The trust does not have enough people to do the jobs as we are short of numbers. This isn't a put up or shut up statement it is a request for help. Due to this reminder of website failure I will contact redstar over the weekend to get the new site up ASAP ! When things are done as a favour they are often over looked ! Excellent Wardle. Is there any chance you could put a list of, say, the Top 10 things you need help on? Also are there any specific projects that you would like to undertake if you had the time/resource. I am in Kent, so can only help a limited amount, mores the pity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 And maybe, as previously requested, a list of who is on the Trust board, and in what capacity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Will there be elections for officers and committee as is the norm at AGMs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Thanks for the response Wardle, much appreciated, but it begs the question of how the trust thought potential members would communicate with the trust? This thread created an opportunity for the trust to re-invigorate itself and gain new members - you have a whole section of fans demonstrating a desire to see an active, visible, effective trust - the "trust bashers" actually care, they are not apathetic. So:- Why should I join the trust? Is it really active or is it just a mothballed ownership of 3% of the club that only has a conflicted voice through Barry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I don't know why people entertain this clown, he's all about himself. He was 'elected' as the fans representative but chose to manipulate that responsibility for his own egotistical gain! Makes no difference if his time is unpaid and voluntary, his five minutes of fame is all the reward he craves! Absolutely sold the Trust and all it stood for, down the river....time to move on! This is why we get half hearted or no reply at all... I've been critical of Barry, the Trust structures, the transparency and more for years despite Ric being a very good friend of mine. But we're not going to get the things we want, the change we need, if all you do is come on - circle jerk about how :censored: Barry is and then toddle off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 It's all over the place Real. More people to do what? The Fans' man-on-the-board puts in six hours a day for Trust purposes alone? How people have you got and how much do you want to do? I'm wondering that it may not need any more people, just management of the resources that are already at your disposal. This isn't a :censored:ing dig by the way Trust people, I just sense a lack of leadership and direction. As I've said before - let's see what you want to do and what you are doing, there might be some really quick fix solutions to get over with the crowd again. Trust popularity must be at an all time low - which, on the other hand, could mean that there's no need for a trust if the fans can't be arsed either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Don't Scare Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I've found myself agreeing with Rummy which must be a first, so much so I felt compelled to actually log in. It's certainly tumbled a long, long way since it was initially set up, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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