GlossopLatic Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) I agree the comparison with Barca is a bit unfair, but I use them as the team that are the best at playing that system, but they have the calibre of players to do it. I just think that the Barca way has become the blueprint for modern coaching and it's as if there is no other way of playing for young coaches. I would suggest watching some of the Latics match videos from the late 80's - early 90's. You will see a high tempo, slick passing, crosses into the box, and central strikers getting into positions where they can stick the ball away. How much of that have we seen this season??I don't think we currently are trying to play anything remotely like Barcelona we are not what you would call a possession team infact at times we've not looked after the ball well enough. At times yesterday we did get the ball in to the box down our right hand side but the problems were the strikers were not anticipating where it would go. Early second half Winchester put a glorious ball across the 6 yard box. One of our strikers anticipates that they get a tap in that would have made it 1-1 and could have changed the game entirely. What we often saw in that team of the late 80's and 90's and in any successful team ever are players who know each others games. I'm sure the likes of Ritchie and Marshall knew when Holden was going to cross the ball and I'm sure he knew where they were going to be. Edited October 23, 2016 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flemboy Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Great low cross but no striker within yards of it.No anticipation is costing us goals and points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFCinWolves Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I agree the comparison with Barca is a bit unfair, but I use them as the team that are the best at playing that system, but they have the calibre of players to do it. I just think that the Barca way has become the blueprint for modern coaching and it's as if there is no other way of playing for young coaches. I would suggest watching some of the Latics match videos from the late 80's - early 90's. You will see a high tempo, slick passing, crosses into the box, and central strikers getting into positions where they can stick the ball away. How much of that have we seen this season?? Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvlatic Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 We need to put the ball in the box earlier - what tends to happen is we overpass back and forth when one good early ball would do - the forwards don't seem to anticipate because a lot of the time the pass just doesn't come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor evil Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) We need to put the ball in the box earlier - what tends to happen is we overpass back and forth when one good early ball would do - the forwards don't seem to anticipate because a lot of the time the pass just doesn't come. We need to be more direct. We must have crossed the ball a million times on saturday and we never looked like scoring. All the attacking players we've got are better with the ball at their feet. Quick passing and movement off the ball is whats needed. Edited October 23, 2016 by doctor evil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 When it does arrive the opposition have reorganised and got men behind the ball making it difficult to break them down, forward passes early in a move are like hens teeth to us, we spend 30 seconds tippy tappying it around before hoofing it into a channel for Erwin or Ladapo to try and win, I know we won't get a Matt Palmer but a central player with his ability to make the forward pass is vital at our level, although I think Erwin has ability I'm not sure where his best position is and by accommodating him we seem to lose our shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1906 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 When it does arrive the opposition have reorganised and got men behind the ball making it difficult to break them down, forward passes early in a move are like hens teeth to us, we spend 30 seconds tippy tappying it around before hoofing it into a channel for Erwin or Ladapo to try and win, I know we won't get a Matt Palmer but a central player with his ability to make the forward pass is vital at our level, although I think Erwin has ability I'm not sure where his best position is and by accommodating him we seem to lose our shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1906 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I think you've hit the nail on the head. We take far too long to get the ball forward into dangerous areas so the opposition have been able to get organised. We need to be much more direct, and not take 10 passes when 3 or 4 will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Look how Rovers committed men in the first half when they broke from midfield they supported in numbers, we never hunt as a pack it's always someone isolated trying to make things happen, after the Scunthorpe game I thought we'd turned the corner as the front two linked up well and were well ssupported by midfield but it appears that was a one off and maybe Scunthorpe just allowed us the space to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFCinWolves Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Simple game being over complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1906 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Agreed. I fear it was a one off. The euphoria of seeing 2 goals may have clouded our judgement and disguised the teams obvious faults. It would be interesting to hear what opposition managers have thought about playing us. I bet they haven't wasted too much of their team talks worrying about our 'goal threat'. We create so little. <sigh> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 We need to be more direct. We must have crossed the ball a million times on saturday and we never looked like scoring. All the attacking players we've got are better with the ball at their feet. Quick passing and movement off the ball is whats needed. When it does arrive the opposition have reorganised and got men behind the ball making it difficult to break them down, forward passes early in a move are like hens teeth to us, we spend 30 seconds tippy tappying it around before hoofing it into a channel for Erwin or Ladapo to try and win, I know we won't get a Matt Palmer but a central player with his ability to make the forward pass is vital at our level, although I think Erwin has ability I'm not sure where his best position is and by accommodating him we seem to lose our shape. All the movement is from Erwin, Ladapo & McKay with little from the midfielders or wingers. Maybe if those 3 could stay more central instead of pissing about going out wide all the time they'd score more goals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 All the movement is from Erwin, Ladapo & McKay with little from the midfielders or wingers. Maybe if those 3 could stay more central instead of pissing about going out wide all the time they'd score more goals... Shouldn't we ask for more movement from the midfielders? Erwin isn't really a penalty box striker he's more a link player like a Baxter so he will do his best work outside the box. Flynn has been prepared to go beyond the strikers. I'd like to see Fane trying to get into the box more often. He's 6'3 other teams won't like seeing him attack crosses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Agreed. I fear it was a one off. The euphoria of seeing 2 goals may have clouded our judgement and disguised the teams obvious faults. It would be interesting to hear what opposition managers have thought about playing us. I bet they haven't wasted too much of their team talks worrying about our 'goal threat'. We create so little. <sigh> There was no disguise or clouding of judgment. We played genuinely well on Tuesday and that should be at least the level of performance the team should be hoping to put in every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I know but it's one that gets trawled out a lot when we do. You could argue if we keep winning the passing but rarely the game we should try letting the opposition have more possession and hit them on the counter rather than trying to pass through them which we're not very good at. I was having similar debate with a mate about England after the Slovenia game. He thought they played well, on the basis that they 'played a lot of nice football' and 'looked good in possession'. I, on the other hand, thought England's performance was :censored:, on the basis that they barely registered a shot against a team they should be looking to beat and only got a draw thanks to a couple of worldie saves from Joe Hart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Erwin isn't really a penalty box striker he's more a link player like a Baxter so he will do his best work outside the box. I disagree. He's certainly not a fox in the box poacher type but he's got a very good first touch & good feet ("for a big man") and could quickly create space to get shots off if he stayed central and received decent balls into him regularly. Baxter is probably the best finisher we've had in recent years. Because he can play so well in midfield people seem determined to play him there rather than up front where he does most damage. Adkins even had him holding right in front of the back four for a while at Sheff Utd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 It could be worse. We could have spent 90 million on a centre mid and him be awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I'm measuring it by the fact I wasn't wanting to go home with 30 minutes to go like the previous home games I've attended and countless others over the last few years. No idea what "pretty football" is. So what exactly were you seeing, that I wasn't, that made you want to stay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 It could be worse. We could have spent 90 thousand on a centre mid and him be awful. Those were the days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I disagree. He's certainly not a fox in the box poacher type but he's got a very good first touch & good feet ("for a big man") and could quickly create space to get shots off if he stayed central and received decent balls into him regularly. Baxter is probably the best finisher we've had in recent years. Because he can play so well in midfield people seem determined to play him there rather than up front where he does most damage. Adkins even had him holding right in front of the back four for a while at Sheff Utd Jose Baxter...the answer to all our midfield problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Just watched the highlights and counted 5 threatening crosses from the right in the 2nd half that could/should have resulted in goals. Really missing an instinctive goal poaching striker that can head a ball. Definite foul on Erwin for their first that I can't believe the lino missed as should have been right in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Really missing an instinctive goal poaching striker that can head a ball. Like Rhys Murphy or Billy McKay who hasn't had balls like that played into him yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Like Rhys Murphy or Billy McKay who hasn't had balls like that played into him yet In the 13 appearances he's not had a single decent delivery or chance to score? Yeah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Thought the point I was making was a tad obvious but maybe not. Sometimes you play averagely OK and lose (like yesterday), sometimes you play averagely OK and win (like Dale two years ago - good win but I don't remember much "pretty" football....) and sometimes you play utter :censored:e (like MK Dons and Swindon) and totally deserve to lose. Yesterday I thought we played OK. But yeah we are a just a totally average team who are always going to struggle to score many goals and keep losing and failing to score goals against equally average teams like Bristol Rovers. Not sure what the answer is though, Robinson seems to be doing the best he can with not a lot of talent. I'd say we are a below average team. And we have been the last couple of years. The difference last season though is we were below average and had a team not playing for their managers until Shez came in. This time, we have a team that is playing for their manager but just isn't good enough. It worries me greatly. We've said in past years there are 4 worse teams than us...this year, that really is questionable. For me...on Saturday, a lot of it was about the desire to move, play into space, get in behind on the wings. There was none. The amount of times that we got into a situation where a runner down the line and a ball slid down the wing would've had us in but we just turned back and inside. It was so :censored:ing easy for them to defend it. We've watched this game 100 times and more with our narrow, checking back teams over the years. But Robbo is happy to persist with it and will fall on his sword with it. And then you have people like Ryan Flynn...he's becoming the new overrated one. Another awful performance. He reminds me so much of Richard Butcher who at times made us look like we were playing with a red card. It wasn't negative or doom to suggest that the Scunny win wasn't us turning the corner. It was a one off game that the players got themselves up for, did the right things but for whatever reason, won't do it week in week out. I was worried we would put in that performance on Saturday. When you've a manager that says we should be bottom of the league in the press, it suggests it's going to be ok for them to fail. The excuses are made for them already by their boss (who happens to be their mate.) Certainly the "too scared to play at home" myth is gone after the Scunny win. Now we're blaming tiredness. :censored: off! We need a big response now at Rochdale before the break for the FA Cup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 In the 13 appearances he's not had a single decent delivery or chance to score? Yeah... Doubt there's been many. And if u expect him to score every one then you're delusional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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