Dave_Og Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, League one forever said: It seems im in a minority - a very small one. Who thinks he’s had enough time for us to judge him. Fair enough. Time will tell. But that's the whole problem isn't it - time doesn't tell? If a manager is sacked prematurely then we never get to know whether it would have worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 5 hours ago, nzlatic said: No one has suggested that by wanting to keep Wellens they want to keep the current form. Or that they’re accepting mediocrity. Or defending bang average. No one has called Wellens a miracle worker or fucking Jesus. Some of my reasons for wanting to keep him on are: - potential style of football (not just the first 4 games, longer than that) - affinity with the club and fans - his desire to build for the long term - he’s well connected and seems to be able to attract decent players Finally, I’m willing to cut him some slack for our recent form not only due to the very real negative factors he has had to deal with (as have other managers before him), but because he’s only been a football manager for 6 months!!! He’s a Yoonited fan who fucked us off twice as a player for the irresistible Doncaster and Shrewsbury... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 minute ago, nzlatic said: As I've already said, he re-signed Doyle, Bryan and Byrne. All of which were getting offers elsewhere. He persuaded them to stick around for a relegation dog fight. Potential style of play - he's proved already what he can do in the right circumstances. The football at the start of his tenure was the best we've seen for ages. If you take his points per game and apply it over the full season then it's mid table form. If we stay up, keep him on and he does the same and we finish 13th next season, would you sack then or not? What are the ‘right circumstances’?? What if them circumstances change? ( like they inevitably do.) Like injuries, suspensions, not getting the player you want? Players getting the hump with you. The list is endless. I agree the football was terrific when he took over, it’s not an exaggeration to say it was the best I’ve watched in years. But, after the first four games, we lost our tempo. We stopped moving the ball quickly. We looked laboured of all a sudden. Our passing was poor- Something the manager prides himself on. We can only judge what we see on the pitch. An we aren’t playing well, and haven’t been for a good while. In answer to your last question, no I wouldn’t sack him if that happened next year. As that would be a decent job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: But that's the whole problem isn't it - time doesn't tell? If a manager is sacked prematurely then we never get to know whether it would have worked out. But we don’t sack people prematurely. We never have. We sack them because there not very good at their job. An in a lot of cases were very poorly recruited in the first place. Ive asked a few times, but nobody can answer me. Who have we sacked (apart from Ronnie Moore) who didn’t deserve it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, League one forever said: But we don’t sack people prematurely. We never have. We sack them because there not very good at their job. An in a lot of cases were very poorly recruited in the first place. Ive asked a few times, but nobody can answer me. Who have we sacked (apart from Ronnie Moore) who didn’t deserve it? Perhaps because it is a question that can't be answered definitively unless you want to set lines on what defines 'success' and 'failure'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukka Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 32 minutes ago, League one forever said: But we don’t sack people prematurely. We never have. We sack them because there not very good at their job. An in a lot of cases were very poorly recruited in the first place. Ive asked a few times, but nobody can answer me. Who have we sacked (apart from Ronnie Moore) who didn’t deserve it? Sheridan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, pukka said: Sheridan He left by mutual consent, he even did a video saying goodbye. Very different to being sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 32 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Perhaps because it is a question that can't be answered definitively unless you want to set lines on what defines 'success' and 'failure'. ? Nice try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 33 minutes ago, League one forever said: He left by mutual consent, he even did a video saying goodbye. Very different to being sacked. What? Every time? He means his 1st spell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 hour ago, League one forever said: What are the ‘right circumstances’?? What if them circumstances change? ( like they inevitably do.) Like injuries, suspensions, not getting the player you want? Players getting the hump with you. The list is endless. I agree the football was terrific when he took over, it’s not an exaggeration to say it was the best I’ve watched in years. But, after the first four games, we lost our tempo. We stopped moving the ball quickly. We looked laboured of all a sudden. Our passing was poor- Something the manager prides himself on. We can only judge what we see on the pitch. An we aren’t playing well, and haven’t been for a good while. In answer to your last question, no I wouldn’t sack him if that happened next year. As that would be a decent job. So his performance this season would see him sacked. But if he did the same over a full season then he'd be doing a decent job? Nah, you've lost me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythemostimportantkick Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 hours ago, HarryBosch said: I keep seeing posts and tweets like this on numerous subjects and wonder have you forgotten we have a new owner and things might now be different? Yeah I’ve become accustomed to it I suppose. Hope your right. Not seen too much evidence suggesting we’re gonna be going for it big time tho YET ! Also , in any case if a manager gets a bit of interest from leagues above they usually get there own way and leave anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 hour ago, nzlatic said: So his performance this season would see him sacked. But if he did the same over a full season then he'd be doing a decent job? Nah, you've lost me. Not sure why. You asked me a hypothetical question, and I gave a hypothetical answer. You’ve got no idea how he’ll do next year. Nobody has. Your guessing. In addition I haven’t said once he should be sacked. You’ve just read what suits your arguement. I started the thread as a discussion about his tenture and how he’s doing. All of which we can assess as it’s actually happened. I, as you know think he could and should be doing better. We’re back in the realms of if’s buts and maybe - having a discussion about how he may or may not do in the future. Let’s talk about the now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 2 hours ago, League one forever said: He left by mutual consent, he even did a video saying goodbye. Very different to being sacked. Presume he meant the first time (in 2009). Definitely a sacking and arguably undeserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Ryan said: He’s a Yoonited fan who fucked us off twice as a player for the irresistible Doncaster and Shrewsbury... He didn't say he supported us, he said after 2 spells as a player he had an affinity with us. Not many of our players ever were Oldham supporters. He was spotted numerous times in the crowd while employed elsewhere. Players will 'fuck you off' for more money and better prospects ala Doncaster or a longer contract & the promise of pay not being missed every other month ala Shrews. I'd say it worked out to be the right decision. Even avid supporters would have done the same. Unless they were a idiot of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, palmer1 said: He didn't say he supported us, he said after 2 spells as a player he had an affinity with us. Not many of our players ever were Oldham supporters. He was spotted numerous times in the crowd while employed elsewhere. Players will 'fuck you off' for more money and better prospects ala Doncaster or a longer contract & the promise of pay not being missed every other month ala Shrews. I'd say it worked out to be the right decision. Even avid supporters would have done the same. Unless they were a idiot of course. He’s hardly gonna come out and say he hates the place, with us just being a stopgap till something better comes along. Most people have some kind of ‘affinity’ for their place of work and colleagues, I don’t see why that’s a reason to blindly support him if he takes us down to the fourth tier for the first time in five decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Ryan said: He’s hardly gonna come out and say he hates the place, with us just being a stopgap till something better comes along. Most people have some kind of ‘affinity’ for their place of work and colleagues, I don’t see why that’s a reason to blindly support him if he takes us down to the fourth tier for the first time in five decades. New flash: We're a stop gap for every player at the club! 98% wont come and watch us on a day off though. Also it isn't blind support to take all things into consideration . You may think changing manager every few months is healthy for the club and the path to success personally I don't. The last 2 managers who were actually given time to learn from their mistakes on the the job and actually improve? Joe Royle & Jimmy Frizzel. Now I'm aware the game has changed and social media plays to much of a roll in the a managers life span at a club but at a club like our does that seem like a coincidence? Edited April 19, 2018 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 minute ago, palmer1 said: New flash: We're a stop gap for every player at the club! 98% wont come and watch us on a day off though. Also it isn't blind support to take all things into consideration . You may think changing manager every few months is healthy for the club and the path to success personally I don't. The last 2 managers who were actually given time to learn from their mistakes on the the job and actually improve? Joe Royle & Jimmy Frizzel. Now I'm aware the game has changed and social media plays to much of a roll in the a managers life span at a club but at a club like our does that seem like a coincidence? Yes, I know that not one of our players is a fan of OAFC and they all have ambitions of playing higher. That’s my point, don’t pretend that we’re anything other than a job to him. We don’t owe Wellens anything and he certainly doesn’t owe us anything, he’d be off sharpish if he got a better offer. He only deserves time to learn from his mistakes if he keeps us up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 24 minutes ago, palmer1 said: New flash: We're a stop gap for every player at the club! 98% wont come and watch us on a day off though. Also it isn't blind support to take all things into consideration . You may think changing manager every few months is healthy for the club and the path to success personally I don't. The last 2 managers who were actually given time to learn from their mistakes on the the job and actually improve? Joe Royle & Jimmy Frizzel. Now I'm aware the game has changed and social media plays to much of a roll in the a managers life span at a club but at a club like our does that seem like a coincidence? Depends on how you define stop gap. I can't see Green, Wilson, Clarke, Gerrard and quite a few more going on to better things, if at all. I've seen a lot of ex-players watching us when they've been off. Tarky and Taylor being the 2 main ones. No ex-player is going to travel for miles to watch us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisbrogan Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) Hasn't the great start he had been undone somewhat by not maintaing it? I know people are pointing to other circumstances being to blame for the do in performances and form but I also think there was an element of us being 'found out' by opposing teams and we haven't been able to adapt to that. I think he's great value in interviews and would like him to turn in round but I'm not wholly confident even though the task in hand should be more than straightforward. If we were to appoint a new manager today, I would expect him to be fired for failing to get enough points from these four games. If Wellens keeps us up then great and it might mean that he gets a crack for next season but some of the talk I've seen in places about him remaining as manager of we go down, baffles me. I think the truth of the matter will be that the new owner will want his own guy in to follow through with whatever he has planned, regardless of where we finish. Edited April 19, 2018 by Twisbrogan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 http://www.thesackrace.com/news/19th-april-2018/league-one-value-added-index Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy-latic Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 If he does manage to keep us up, he’s done a fantastic job considering where we were when he took over and also baring in mind it’s his first managerial position. Speaks a lot of sense and definitely would be worthy of a shot at it the start of next season IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 6 hours ago, League one forever said: But we don’t sack people prematurely. We never have. We sack them because there not very good at their job. An in a lot of cases were very poorly recruited in the first place. Ive asked a few times, but nobody can answer me. Who have we sacked (apart from Ronnie Moore) who didn’t deserve it? John Sheridan. Twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: Presume he meant the first time (in 2009). Definitely a sacking and arguably undeserved. Nah, he had lost the plot back in 2009. What wasn't right was replacing him with a dinosaur who was 5 years out of date and then giving Penney the job in the summer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticsmarra Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 22 hours ago, League one forever said: What are you on about, Honestly? What is it with some fans and their utter obsession with stability? Some people are saying we should stick with wellens if we go down? Hello. . . ITS A RESULTS DRIVEN BUSINEES. Name me one manager in the last five / ten years that we’ve sacked who didn’t deserve it??? You only get stability when results are semi decent or good, you don’t get it when results are below average. You and others make it sound like we’re leeds, where a manager finishes 11th and shows promise and we still sack him. We don’t. We sack them because there not very good. Simple. Your living in a fantasy land if you think we should stick by managers because they MIGHT turn out good. The only manager who showed real promise was LJ; and we didn’t sack him, why? Because he’s good at his job. Come off your soap box what as wrong with Ronnie Moore results wise. I have never thought we should not sack managers that aren't performing,but at some point the carousel has to stop. We have a manger managing amidst of a rotten start to the season,the legacy of years of the Corney regime and a drawn out change of ownership. We have played some of the best football at times that I have seen since the Premiership, let's cut him some slack to sort things out. Who is your suggested replacement ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisbaneblue Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Ryan said: He’s a Yoonited fan who fucked us off twice as a player for the irresistible Doncaster and Shrewsbury... Doncaster who give him £6k a week ( a lot more than he got from us) and Shrewsbury who gave him £1.5k after he asked us for £1k a week and Corney offered £500! I’d fuck us off too and I’ve followed the team for 39 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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