kowenicki Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 minute ago, wiseowl said: In an insolvency situation, he will turn out to be our saviour - that's why you'll never hear me slagging him off. WE NEED BLITZ ON BOARD. If it happens then we will see. Not convinced. All about the best deal for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 20 hours ago, wiseowl said: We must always remember that it is "only" the club we are talking about here (badge/players etc.) - in many respects the ground being owned by a separate entity could actually be a blessing in ANY insolvency situation. I’ve always said this. The North Stand could ultimately be our saviour, because it gives us something to rebuild from should Admin/liquidation occur. But that’s only if Blitz plays ball because as Kow rightly points out- Why would Blitz sell it to a new buyer for x when he can get more from a developer. If Blitz plays ball then while admin/liquidation would be awful- it wouldn’t mean death, it would mean rebirth aka Macclesfield. If admin/liquidation comes and blitz sells the ground we’re done in any capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basilrobbie Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 38 minutes ago, League one forever said: I’ve always said this. The North Stand could ultimately be our saviour, because it gives us something to rebuild from should Admin/liquidation occur. But that’s only if Blitz plays ball because as Kow rightly points out- Why would Blitz sell it to a new buyer for x when he can get more from a developer. If Blitz plays ball then while admin/liquidation would be awful- it wouldn’t mean death, it would mean rebirth aka Macclesfield. If admin/liquidation comes and blitz sells the ground we’re done in any capacity. That hasn't been the experience at Derby. The messiness of the ground ownership issues has been a major impediment . I don't see how uncertainty about where a football club is actually going to play - and on what terms - can do anything but depress its value. There aren't any charges on your ground, are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 44 minutes ago, basilrobbie said: That hasn't been the experience at Derby. The messiness of the ground ownership issues has been a major impediment . I don't see how uncertainty about where a football club is actually going to play - and on what terms - can do anything but depress its value. There aren't any charges on your ground, are there? I don’t follow you? How can you depress the value of nothing? Blitz/Morris both have a choice. If both clubs are liquidated they either sell the ground to a buyer interested in starting a Phoenix club, or they sell it to a developer. In Blitz sells the ground to a developer the chances of us starting again without ground in any meaningful capacity is over. I don’t know Morris that well, but Blitz has shown time and again that he does what Is what for him not the club. He may come good if doomsday happens- he may not. It’s his choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 56 minutes ago, basilrobbie said: That hasn't been the experience at Derby. The messiness of the ground ownership issues has been a major impediment . I don't see how uncertainty about where a football club is actually going to play - and on what terms - can do anything but depress its value. There aren't any charges on your ground, are there? Also- the chances of us going into admin and there being a protracted takeover like Derby is very slim. Because the football club is just a badge. There is no holding money or assets. So as wiseowl suggests, unless it’s a pre pack- admin for us will quickly mean liquidation- it’s in this scenario I’m taking about Blitz and the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 To build on it would be a PR disaster and Blitz would never do that anyway. The outcry wouldn’t be worth the hassle and the council would step in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchierich Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Blitz is an asset stripping scumbag who is central to the destruction of Latics He will do whatever makes him the most money. Nothing matters beyond that and BP is simply an asset to be converted into whatever provides the best revenue streams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Watching class of 92! They are so far ahead, but we are so far behind. I can’t imagine we have anything like their infrastructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basilrobbie Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 59 minutes ago, League one forever said: Also- the chances of us going into admin and there being a protracted takeover like Derby is very slim. Because the football club is just a badge. There is no holding money or assets. So as wiseowl suggests, unless it’s a pre pack- admin for us will quickly mean liquidation- it’s in this scenario I’m taking about Blitz and the ground. It's an approach with lots of implications. Most of them being bad ones for the future of competitive professional football in Oldham. That's all I'm saying. I also feel that you are quite wrong about the value of the club. The badge and the fan base that attaches to it will always have a value, and if you stay up the golden share confers more. There is a separate conversation to be had about whether that value is of a size that puts it within the financial reach of the supporters. All in my opinion, and strictly speaking it is absolutely none of my business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchierich Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, basilrobbie said: All in my opinion, and strictly speaking it is absolutely none of my business. it really is though! Every football fan needs to be aware before it’s too late for more clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basilrobbie Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, Ritchierich said: it really is though! Every football fan needs to be aware before it’s too late for more clubs I agree Ritchie and I do want the best for you. But sometimes butting in isn't the tactful thing to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, basilrobbie said: It's an approach with lots of implications. Most of them being bad ones for the future of competitive professional football in Oldham. That's all I'm saying. I also feel that you are quite wrong about the value of the club. The badge and the fan base that attaches to it will always have a value, and if you stay up the golden share confers more. There is a separate conversation to be had about whether that value is of a size that puts it within the financial reach of the supporters. All in my opinion, and strictly speaking it is absolutely none of my business. Please keep voicing your opinion, you add so much and your experience at Blackpool gives us plenty of reference points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 19 minutes ago, basilrobbie said: It's an approach with lots of implications. Most of them being bad ones for the future of competitive professional football in Oldham. That's all I'm saying. I also feel that you are quite wrong about the value of the club. The badge and the fan base that attaches to it will always have a value, and if you stay up the golden share confers more. There is a separate conversation to be had about whether that value is of a size that puts it within the financial reach of the supporters. All in my opinion, and strictly speaking it is absolutely none of my business. It absolutely is and please keep speaking - theres 2 or 3 so called “realistic fans” I wouldn’t mind you sitting down with but I wouldn’t subject my worst enemy to those bellends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, basilrobbie said: It's an approach with lots of implications. Most of them being bad ones for the future of competitive professional football in Oldham. That's all I'm saying. I also feel that you are quite wrong about the value of the club. The badge and the fan base that attaches to it will always have a value, and if you stay up the golden share confers more. There is a separate conversation to be had about whether that value is of a size that puts it within the financial reach of the supporters. All in my opinion, and strictly speaking it is absolutely none of my business. To be clear- all my views are based on us going down- which I think is inevitable. So the golden share becomes moot- and if by some miracle we do stay up- I don’t the owner will be in a rush to sell. Of course the badge has a value, but that must be realised with substantial capital. Build it and they will come. Macclesfield are getting fantastic gates again, because the fans value the badge- but the guy that took it on had to pump millions in before a ticket was sold. He was only willing to do that because he had a ground to buy, from which he could invest in and consequently realise the value of the badge. If we lose the badge- it can be rebuilt. If we lose the ground- the club dies. Lastly- keep contributing Baz, I like the cut of your Jib, and it’s always good to an informed opinion who we can debate and discuss with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basilrobbie Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, League one forever said: To be clear- all my views are based on us going down- which I think is inevitable. So the golden share becomes moot- and if by some miracle we do stay up- I don’t the owner will be in a rush to sell. (1) Of course the badge has a value, but that must be realised with substantial capital. Build it and they will come. (2) Macclesfield are getting fantastic gates again, because the fans value the badge- but the guy that took it on had to pump millions in before a ticket was sold. He was only willing to do that because he had a ground to buy, from which he could invest in and consequently realise the value of the badge. If we lose the badge- it can be rebuilt. If we lose the ground- the club dies. Lastly- keep contributing Baz, I like the cut of your Jib, and it’s always good to an informed opinion who we can debate and discuss with. (1) and (2) : I sense an agreement is breaking out here. I don't think I expressed my earlier post as well as I could have. I was trying to imply that all the work that the Foundation and PB have been doing around building a war chest seems very relevant if you think that the club might come on the market at a realistic price that they could try to meet. I've no idea what other prospective owners could bring to the table, but I agree with you (again) that the status of the ground is important here. I just think moving to administration closes off a lot of options and comes at a hefty price in itself (Wigan and Derby fans are less than impressed by the very expensive billable hours that have come out of their trip down that route). Re your last sentence - ta very much ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 hours ago, League one forever said: If we lose the badge- it can be rebuilt. If we lose the ground- the club dies. Lastly- keep contributing Baz, I like the cut of your Jib, and it’s always good to an informed opinion who we can debate and discuss with. I know we have discussed this before but I still feel that if somebody buys 'the badge' as you call it the club will survive. I we lose the ground then the club can find an alternative venue to play until a permanent solution can be found. It has been done many times were a club has to play at a non home venue. It is not desirable but it is doable. Echo your comments about @basilrobbiecontributions to this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, whittles left foot said: I know we have discussed this before but I still feel that if somebody buys 'the badge' as you call it the club will survive. I we lose the ground then the club can find an alternative venue to play until a permanent solution can be found. It has been done many times were a club has to play at a non home venue. It is not desirable but it is doable. Echo your comments about @basilrobbiecontributions to this discussion. Yeah- it’s doable I suppose. I just can’t see many turning up at Ashton (or wherever) and it being built up to anything meaningful. It’s like Bury- the badge plays at Radcliffe but they don’t get many and I bet any money that most will be back at gigg lane when they get it open again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 10 hours ago, League one forever said: I just can’t see many turning up at Ashton (or wherever) and it being built up to anything meaningful. Well if we go down and Curzon come up, we may not need admin to experience that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Down Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 18 hours ago, League one forever said: To be clear- all my views are based on us going down- which I think is inevitable. So the golden share becomes moot- and if by some miracle we do stay up- I don’t the owner will be in a rush to sell. Of course the badge has a value, but that must be realised with substantial capital. Build it and they will come. Macclesfield are getting fantastic gates again, because the fans value the badge- but the guy that took it on had to pump millions in before a ticket was sold. He was only willing to do that because he had a ground to buy, from which he could invest in and consequently realise the value of the badge. If we lose the badge- it can be rebuilt. If we lose the ground- the club dies. Lastly- keep contributing Baz, I like the cut of your Jib, and it’s always good to an informed opinion who we can debate and discuss with. I would agree that keeping the ground is a must. As a follower of both Latics and Oldham Rugby, the decline of the latter without a ground is heartbreaking and it is hard to see the funding for a ground in Oldham for Latics if we were evicted. To wander the non league grounds would lead to an agonising death. It is hard to fathom what is going on currently. I had thought, wrongly, that January would be a fire sale followed by a cutting of losses and departure. Apparently not so. The squad has been marginally improved, in the sense that our rickety wagon now has two wheels, each at opposite corners, rather than merely a single one. The owner has rather cleverly brought in a human shield in the form of John Sheridan, which will deflect some of the heat for a few weeks. It also got him a bit of brass through the gate. From here it seems that there is little chance of administration. Rather, in the absence of a credible buyer, the prospect of more decline through the various non leagues with just enough money put in to avoid losing the club altogether. It may well become ALMO's punishment to the town for all the hurts, real and imagined, that they feel they have suffered. Without someone with pots of money riding to the rescue ( and why on earth would they?), it is hard to see a good outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basilrobbie Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dickie Down said: I would agree that keeping the ground is a must. As a follower of both Latics and Oldham Rugby, the decline of the latter without a ground is heartbreaking and it is hard to see the funding for a ground in Oldham for Latics if we were evicted. To wander the non league grounds would lead to an agonising death. It is hard to fathom what is going on currently. I had thought, wrongly, that January would be a fire sale followed by a cutting of losses and departure. Apparently not so. The squad has been marginally improved, in the sense that our rickety wagon now has two wheels, each at opposite corners, rather than merely a single one. The owner has rather cleverly brought in a human shield in the form of John Sheridan, which will deflect some of the heat for a few weeks. It also got him a bit of brass through the gate. From here it seems that there is little chance of administration. Rather, in the absence of a credible buyer, the prospect of more decline through the various non leagues with just enough money put in to avoid losing the club altogether. It may well become ALMO's punishment to the town for all the hurts, real and imagined, that they feel they have suffered. Without someone with pots of money riding to the rescue ( and why on earth would they?), it is hard to see a good outcome. That's a pretty sober (and sobering) analysis. It's natural, I think, to see this through the prism of the next 3-4 months, and your final League position. Staying up would obviously be a relief in footballing terms, but might just kick the can down the road. Going down leads to a future that is really hard to predict for any club, let alone one with all the moving parts you have. I've said this before, but if you are still managing this problem well into 2023, I'd be inclined to try to use the Crouch Review - and the possible advent of a Shadow Regulator - as additional leverage to complement that which you are able to generate yourselves. I know from past experience that making people uncomfortable often leads to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 22 hours ago, League one forever said: I’ve always said this. The North Stand could ultimately be our saviour, because it gives us something to rebuild from should Admin/liquidation occur. But that’s only if Blitz plays ball because as Kow rightly points out- Why would Blitz sell it to a new buyer for x when he can get more from a developer. If Blitz plays ball then while admin/liquidation would be awful- it wouldn’t mean death, it would mean rebirth aka Macclesfield. If admin/liquidation comes and blitz sells the ground we’re done in any capacity. What if the council were to refuse any planning permission for houses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 27 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: What if the council were to refuse any planning permission for houses? We’re into another whole debate there, but my hunch would be the council would do what is best for them politically at that time. They’re very good at making the right noises, while planning and implementing the complete opposite in private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Dickie Down said: I would agree that keeping the ground is a must. As a follower of both Latics and Oldham Rugby, the decline of the latter without a ground is heartbreaking and it is hard to see the funding for a ground in Oldham for Latics if we were evicted. To wander the non league grounds would lead to an agonising death. It is hard to fathom what is going on currently. I had thought, wrongly, that January would be a fire sale followed by a cutting of losses and departure. Apparently not so. The squad has been marginally improved, in the sense that our rickety wagon now has two wheels, each at opposite corners, rather than merely a single one. The owner has rather cleverly brought in a human shield in the form of John Sheridan, which will deflect some of the heat for a few weeks. It also got him a bit of brass through the gate. From here it seems that there is little chance of administration. Rather, in the absence of a credible buyer, the prospect of more decline through the various non leagues with just enough money put in to avoid losing the club altogether. It may well become ALMO's punishment to the town for all the hurts, real and imagined, that they feel they have suffered. Without someone with pots of money riding to the rescue ( and why on earth would they?), it is hard to see a good outcome. Great post. And exactly how I see our existence with all its permutations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 44 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: What if the council were to refuse any planning permission for houses? I find it hard to visualise Blitz going ahead with building on Boundary Park, or the council sanctioning it. Maybe a naive view, but as has been said it would be a PR nightmare for Blitz. One thing that comes out strongly from Mike Keegan's excellent book is how good for the town the glory days under Joe Royle were, not least the impact on the local economy. I'm not suggesting we'll ever see that kind of success again, but on a smaller scale a well-run, reasonably successful club with good relations with its fanbase would still be a great asset for the town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: Maybe a naive view, but as has been said it would be a PR nightmare for Blitz. Naive indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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