BPAS PODCAST SEASON 2: 11th Apr '22 Episode 79: Destiny Calling

[basilrobbie]

Another good listen, I do like a Matt Dean rant.

 

I think what you end up using the money you raise for isn't (yet) the big issue here. The more immediate one is of how you acquire some leverage.

 

I endorse all that was said about Salford City - a latter day Fleetwood Town, really. And they(Fleetwood)  are now on the long, slow road back to where they came from. Crowds dwindling, chairman in grave danger of going to jail, over £20m  in debt (most of which is owed to said owner) and losing money at the rate of around £55k per week. 

 

I agree your best target is Barrow. Especially now they have made such a disastrous managerial appointment. Panic, pure and simple.

[Worcester Owl]

7 hours ago, PeteG said:

I'm assuming that OASF is a registered charity. Perhaps @underdogknows the answer because it has implications as to what it can invest in if it raised this £1 million.

It’s a bit of a side issue if OASF isn’t a registered charity, but charities actually have a reasonable amount of flexibility in where/what they can invest in under Charity Commission regulations and charity law. The main issue is to make sure they are not seen as trading in investments for financial gain, which is a taxable trade, but even here there is a reasonable amount of leeway. I was investment director for a large UK charity and we never had problems with HMRC. Provided OASF could meet the definition of a registered charity (if it wanted to go that route) investing its donations shouldn’t be a problem if part of its charitable purpose.

[underdog]

7 hours ago, PeteG said:

Pity Phillipa isn't still involved.

She was this time last year as was Jason Flynn.

 

Wow. Just hit me that this time last year we got the Club to sign off on the MOU and launched the 21 step strategy into fan ownership of club, stadium or both.

 

From memory, Yes both Philippa/Jason were looking at Escrow? accounts at the time. As we were about to launch the lottery. This was with a view to open another account.

 

We then went into a full AGM prep and they left. 

 

It was then going to be looked at when PTB cast their eyes over it and thumbs up they wanted to get involved.

 

But we then had to plough on with launching the pledges ASAP with club stuff making it more urgent.

 

I have left since. I presumed it was all sorted with the rally call for cash by end if season, but maybe I listed the announcement about it and the legal signatures on the account too.

 

 

 

[Chaddyexile84]

33 minutes ago, underdog said:

She was this time last year as was Jason Flynn.

 

Wow. Just hit me that this time last year we got the Club to sign off on the MOU and launched the 21 step strategy into fan ownership of club, stadium or both.

 

From memory, Yes both Philippa/Jason were looking at Escrow? accounts at the time. As we were about to launch the lottery. This was with a view to open another account.

 

We then went into a full AGM prep and they left. 

 

It was then going to be looked at when PTB cast their eyes over it and thumbs up they wanted to get involved.

 

But we then had to plough on with launching the pledges ASAP with club stuff making it more urgent.

 

I have left since. I presumed it was all sorted with the rally call for cash by end if season, but maybe I listed the announcement about it and the legal signatures on the account too.

 

 

 

 

Let's not look back all teary eyed here 

 

"The club signed upto the MOU and launched a 21 step strategy"

 

What exactly did either achieve? I appreciate the efforts you in particularly made but the trust failed spectacularly- you mention elsewhere about the ground and being fearful of our survival? Well why wasn't that exact issue being raised when we had a presence in the board room??

 

Because Owen and Radcliffe were more interested in themselves and weren't challenged by the wider trust. Speaking of which how's that Hughes fellow getting on in his new prawn sandwich club?

 

I have no idea if the new trust can do anything of note but with the greatest respect they can't be any worse and at least are willing to tackle the club and leave the patsy seat on the board vacant 

[Sloshed Joe]

Listen to the first few minutes of this on half speed. Very entertaining!

[underdog]

11 hours ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

 

Let's not look back all teary eyed here 

 

"The club signed upto the MOU and launched a 21 step strategy"

 

What exactly did either achieve? I appreciate the efforts you in particularly made but the trust failed spectacularly- you mention elsewhere about the ground and being fearful of our survival? Well why wasn't that exact issue being raised when we had a presence in the board room??

 

Because Owen and Radcliffe were more interested in themselves and weren't challenged by the wider trust. Speaking of which how's that Hughes fellow getting on in his new prawn sandwich club?

 

I have no idea if the new trust can do anything of note but with the greatest respect they can't be any worse and at least are willing to tackle the club and leave the patsy seat on the board vacant 

 I don't have all the answers to your questions.

 

What I can say is the turning point is when the then trust attended an FSA clubs in crisis training event approx Oct 2020. (PTB attended too)

 

The follow up assessment  Nov' 2020 of EFL clubs coming out of covid from the FSA was that in their opinion, potentially 12 EFL clubs may not survive post covid....we were one. If 12 clubs came up for sale what would make us the standout one to buy? Bearing in mind our club does not owed its asset...its stadium.

 

So the strategy was announced 5 months later. The 1895 CF lottery and pledges initiative being part one. Thanks to our lottery volunteer who gives up his Sunday's to run it and input from FSA, Dave Og & Singe too

 

Leave a latics legacy in your will. I left with the current team to bottom out...think Dale fan who left 1/4 of a million to his club.

 

The ACV re-application process started in Nov' 2020, which has Been a good 12 month nightmare, but now is completed as part of that strategy. It's in place for another 5yrs. thanks again to a volunteer and ex-director. Little Wembley covered again too when we thought we would be asked to remove it by the landlord.

 

It's damn hard work being on the supporters board. It's not been at full capacity for several years. Ideally you need a board of 10 with the right skillsets to do it. Then an army of volunteers to support that team too.

 

Then there is the future prep too required for EFL reform. Shadow boards, golden share etc.

 

The patsy seat gets you upto date intel at board level. Like financials...is everyone getting paid and on time?..stuff maybe a new owner may want in advance? ...not so much the tiny detail but to have a supporters rep to say independently yes/no stuff is being paid. The FSA monthly key marker questions. OASF were toying with the 

idea of hiring an qualified independent to do it. Who would then report back to OASF board and wider fanbase. Its still an idea

 

This kind of Stuff that gets lost and nor reported on when you are daily firefighting with stuff surrounding our club.

 

Cheers

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by underdog

[LightDN123]

Badge or land/stadium it’s a no brainer clearly. It has to be our priority to buy the land/stadium. 

[underdog]

3 hours ago, LightDN123 said:

Badge or land/stadium it’s a no brainer clearly. It has to be our priority to buy the land/stadium. 

I agree. Just said on another post.

 

We secure a stadium size/site big enough for a home to both footy and rugby if needed, with other options like a community hub. Similar to NUFC 8 million new hub or Bangla Bantums

 

We put it in trust or asset lock it.

[Chaddyexile84]

13 hours ago, underdog said:

The patsy seat gets you upto date intel at board level. Like financials...is everyone getting paid and on time?..stuff maybe a new owner may want in advance? ...not so much the tiny detail but to have a supporters rep to say independently yes/no stuff is being paid. 

 

Appreciate the detailed response but apologies the above just isn't correct 

 

Simon Brooke would turn up for meetings 30 minutes after they had started to be told "finance had already been discussed" before being sent to Coventry completely.

 

The club have always told that seat what they wanted to tell and only allowed you close if you were in bed with paper and slippers with them.

 

 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, underdog said:

 

 

[GlossopLatic]

I think what is clear is that the way the trust was previously run was not representative of the vast majority of the fanbase. 

 

The classic case being when Paul Hughes was presented with a petition with 3000 signatures on it asking the owners to sell the club and he didn't even bother to take to the Lemsagams. Their is no point having a supporters representative on the board of directors if he is not going to represent the supporters.

 

Mr Hughes has now got into bed with the Lemsagams after stepping down from the trust. A bizarre and foolish decision on 2 levels. Firstly we can all see what the Lemsagams have done to the football club. Secondly The Lemsagams will throw anybody under the bus including fellow boot licker Barry Owen. It's a matter of time before both of them get thrown out.

 

So while I don't think the trust can win a battle with the club on this because monet talks I'd rather we had one that was representative of the fanbase and not trying to appease them. As Winston Churchill once said an Appeaser is someone who feeds a crocodile and hopes it will eat him last.

Edited April 13, 2022 by GlossopLatic

[basilrobbie]

1 hour ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

 

Appreciate the detailed response but apologies the above just isn't correct 

 

Simon Brooke would turn up for meetings 30 minutes after they had started to be told "finance had already been discussed" before being sent to Coventry completely.

 

The club have always told that seat what they wanted to tell and only allowed you close if you were in bed with paper and slippers with them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we are talking about Shadow Boards here, the proposal is that they would be made up entirely of fans, the club would have no role in heir selection and would be obliged to meet them on a regular basis (probably 3-4 times a year).

 

As I understand it, the SB would have a right to see information relating to business planning, financial management and corporate issues, albeit they would probably have to agree to non-disclosure of key commercial information. What they WOULDN'T be doing is using this forum to  hold the club to account for the price of pies, manager tactics etc.

[Chaddyexile84]

1 hour ago, basilrobbie said:

 

If we are talking about Shadow Boards here, the proposal is that they would be made up entirely of fans, the club would have no role in heir selection and would be obliged to meet them on a regular basis (probably 3-4 times a year).

 

As I understand it, the SB would have a right to see information relating to business planning, financial management and corporate issues, albeit they would probably have to agree to non-disclosure of key commercial information. What they WOULDN'T be doing is using this forum to  hold the club to account for the price of pies, manager tactics etc.

 

Not a shadow board, I'm talking of our full main board that the coveted 3% gives us access to.

 

It has been largely useless either because the incumbents have been more interested in having a club tie or because they have been ostracised.

 

It says a lot that I know for fact that our former chairman was asked about the trust when he was effectively stealing funds for a scoreboard and his response was

 

"Fuck the trust"

Edited April 12, 2022 by Chaddyexile84

[basilrobbie]

7 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

 

Not a shadow board, I'm talking of our full main board that the coveted 3% gives us access to.

 

It has been largely useless either because the incumbents have been more interested in having a club tie or because they have been ostracised and excluded.

 

It says a lot that I know for fact that our former chairman was asked about the trust when he was effectively stealing funds for a scoreboard and his response was

 

"Fuck the trust"

Aaah, sorry, I understand now. 

[League one forever]

3 hours ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

before being sent to Coventry completely.

I’ve heard this a couple of times, what does it mean? 

[Chaddyexile84]

5 minutes ago, League one forever said:

I’ve heard this a couple of times, what does it mean? 

 

It's an old fashioned term for being excluded and ignored 

 

Enid Blyton used the term a lot in her books for kids 

[League one forever]

59 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

 

It's an old fashioned term for being excluded and ignored 

 

Enid Blyton used the term a lot in her books for kids 

Ah nice- I like it.

[wiseowl]

5 hours ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

 

It's an old fashioned term for being excluded and ignored 

 

Enid Blyton used the term a lot in her books for kids 

 

4 hours ago, League one forever said:

Ah nice- I like it.

First coined in the English Civil War when Royalist prisoners were literally "sent to Coventry". The city was strongly Parliamentarian and, therefore, nobody would speak to the Royalists - they were completely shunned. 

[whittles left foot]

14 hours ago, LightDN123 said:

Badge or land/stadium it’s a no brainer clearly. It has to be our priority to buy the land/stadium. 

I am not after a ruckus over this but can someone explain or give good reasons why it is a priority to buy the ground or acquire a new ground?

[Chaddyexile84]

7 minutes ago, whittles left foot said:

I am not after a ruckus over this but can someone explain or give good reasons why it is a priority to buy the ground or acquire a new ground?

 

Because without it we literally have a badge and some shit players as "assets"

[League one forever]

8 minutes ago, whittles left foot said:

I am not after a ruckus over this but can someone explain or give good reasons why it is a priority to buy the ground or acquire a new ground?

Because with apathy and disillusionment at all time high- can you imagine how many would turn up at somewhere like Rochdale (just an example) to watch the badge/team play- particularly in non league. 
 

I doubt you’d see 1200 there.
 

With no ground to make money on non match days, rent to pay to the host club and a extremely depleted fan base, the chances of building back up from there are slim to none. 
 

IMO if we lose the ground, you can kiss goodbye to Latics ever being a professional club again. It will exist, but as some tinpot semi pro club in the northern premier. 

 

[underdog]

19 hours ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

 

Appreciate the detailed response but apologies the above just isn't correct 

 

Simon Brooke would turn up for meetings 30 minutes after they had started to be told "finance had already been discussed" before being sent to Coventry completely.

 

The club have always told that seat what they wanted to tell and only allowed you close if you were in bed with paper and slippers with them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

With regards to Si Brooke, the meetings were either moved or brought forward without notice. Good practice is secretary to arrange/invite 10 days before. At the time we had a solicitor letter drafted with regards to his treatment but, decided not to issue it as Al was on the scene and we did not want to jeopardise the sale.

 

There is also the issue over Full accounts being OASF right to see them and the fight over last 3 yrs to get some standards. Do you remember the Xmas 2019 letter to club and how they ripped Philippa apart? She stuck at it. Got the ongoing concern bit in them.too. without this you would have less detail.

 

Same letter asked to see the share holder register. 1 day later its updated at CH to include Corney.

 

The accounts issued last month OASF have not managed to see them yet. Never mind given permission to how they are published.

 

FSA advice is too keep hold of it. Lesson learned is NOT to appoint a fan. Appoint someone/ entity who looks at business first.

 

Cheers

 

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by underdog

[yarddog73]

10 minutes ago, underdog said:

With regards to Si Brooke, the meetings were either moved or brought forward without notice. Good practice is secretary to arrange/invite 10 days before. At the time we had a solicitor letter drafted with regards to his treatment but, decided not to issue it as Al was on the scene and we did not want to jeopardise the sale.

 

There is also the issue over Full accounts being OASF right to see them and the fight over last 3 yrs to get some standards. Do you remember the Xmas 2019 letter to club and how they ripped Philippa apart? She stuck at it. Got the ongoing concern bit in them.too. without this you would have less detail.

 

Same letter asked to see the share holder register. 1 day later its updated at CH to include Corney.

 

The accounts issued last month OASF have not managed to see them yet. Never mind given permission to how they are published.

 

FSA advice is too keep hold of it. Lesson learned is NOT to appoint a fan. Appoint someone/ entity who looks at business first.

 

Cheers

 

 

No doubt about it the position seem to attract a certain type of fan, self absorbed springs to mind.

[PeteG]

9 hours ago, League one forever said:

Because with apathy and disillusionment at all time high- can you imagine how many would turn up at somewhere like Rochdale (just an example) to watch the badge/team play- particularly in non league. 
 

I doubt you’d see 1200 there.
 

With no ground to make money on non match days, rent to pay to the host club and a extremely depleted fan base, the chances of building back up from there are slim to none. 
 

IMO if we lose the ground, you can kiss goodbye to Latics ever being a professional club again. It will exist, but as some tinpot semi pro club in the northern premier. 

 

That's literally the case now. Let's not pretend we have our own ground now and one of the major reasons that suitable buyers are not lining up to buy the club.

[greengrass]

1 hour ago, PeteG said:

That's literally the case now. Let's not pretend we have our own ground now and one of the major reasons that suitable buyers are not lining up to buy the club.

 

I get your point but surely the difference there, and the point he's making, is that at least this is "our" rented ground and not sharing with another club. Would be a lot more dire if it was a team of our shit players with our badge on but playing at spotland every other week... 

[PeteG]

9 minutes ago, greengrass said:

 

I get your point but surely the difference there, and the point he's making, is that at least this is "our" rented ground and not sharing with another club. Would be a lot more dire if it was a team of our shit players with our badge on but playing at spotland every other week... 

Agreed, however from a financial perspective and sustainability and dare I say the opportunity to have a little success will always be extremely limited if we can't generate income except for 23 days a year. Imagine having a business with expenses 365 days a year but only having 23 days a year to bring income in? It would be ok if we were renting the ground from say the council but operated the whole thing 7 days a week allowing the club generate other income streams.