BPAS PODCAST: 7th Aug '23, S4E3: It All Went South

[BPAS]

Prior to the kick off in the 2023/24 season, Oldham Athletic hadn't won an opening day fixture since the 2013/14 season. This is still the case.

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[Monty Burns]

top episode well played

[LightDN123]

Good episode thanks guys. Would also say a second thanks for your honest views, appreciate you guys are closer to DU than the average fan and that could sway your views, but the honest assessment of the shambles that Saturday was, is appreciated.

 

Few points mentioned on the pod which I flagged and thought was worth discussing. DU’s comments that better players would result in better results and improved stats. This comment at the time was massively alarming to me, it’s pretty much an acceptance that he doesn’t believe he can develop players or get a group of players to outperform as a team. It highlights his incompetence as a manager. 
 

The comments that we should trust each other as fans / club / coaching staff. I can’t speak from the clubs and coaching staff perspective. But as a fan, I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest I should trust Unsworth. His favourite formation is 433, no evidence he wants to play it. Fast dynamic football, we havnt seen that in 30 odd games. Signings, he’s fallen out with players and axed any ounce of creativity we have had. He literally gives us nothing to trust or get behind. He didn’t want a relationship with the fans until it turned toxic and was pointed out to him. How can you trust someone like that ? 
 

The away form. This has been consistently shambolic throughout. Our first away win was Dorking last year. If that form carries on into this year, which I have seen nothing to suggest it won’t, then we can say goodbye to both automatic and playoff hopes. 
 

Matt’s comment that the playing side does not impact or is separate to culture. Absolutely disagree with this. We have a team that sits back, is negative, and grinds out results when we are lucky enough to win. This attitude reflects in the fan base and I’d imagine through the players also. If we played front foot, attacking, played to win. The fans would be far more up for it, the players would certainly be happier and it changes the culture of the fans and players. A manager that reflects the optimism of our owner would be my wish. 
 

The Willoughby treatment. Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. Poor lad will be back on loan at Chester in a few months is my guess. Shambles. 
 

Unsworths comments that a formation is not rigid. He is one the most rigid manager we have had. He’s stubborn, reluctant to change anything! To only make two subs on Saturday was brainless. How we didn’t change anything in the second half is even more puzzling. When Ward went off, that was a perfect opportunity to accept we have got this wrong and switch it. Nope we put a left sided player into the middle of the park (he actually played okay in fairness). But it highlights how rigid we are and how we have no plan B. He wasn’t at the game, fine, but he’s demonstrated his inability to change anything consistently throughout his tenure. 
 

Overall, I made my mind up about Unsworth before that Notts County game. I shut up after it and accepted as results picked up that we had to get behind him, because as much as I think he is incompetent he isn’t going anywhere until this year. The pre season games and Southend confirmed we havnt evolved as a team, it’s the same old rubbish. When he joined initially, he said we have to play 5 at the back as he couldn’t trust the defensive unit, is that his opinion now ?  I want Oldham to win every game, but I was Unsworth gone asap. The sooner he is gone, the sooner we can focus on getting out this division.

 

People will say it’s one game, but this squad is so unbalanced. We have to many forward players, to many centre backs. Not enough full backs, and not one centre mid we can trust to control a game. We have no creativity anywhere on the pitch.

 

The positive is, things are never as bad as they seem. A new manager (correct appointment) and 2/3 signings to correct the balance of the squad and we would be up battling for the title. 

Up to you DU to change it around, I hope you do, I have no faith you will. 

 

 

[Monty Burns]

oh and l always understood languid as to mean effortlessly skillfull, but that wasnt what Andy was saying!!

[GrahamHughes]

2 hours ago, LightDN123 said:

Good episode thanks guys. Would also say a second thanks for your honest views, appreciate you guys are closer to DU than the average fan and that could sway your views, but the honest assessment of the shambles that Saturday was, is appreciated.

 

Few points mentioned on the pod which I flagged and thought was worth discussing. DU’s comments that better players would result in better results and improved stats. This comment at the time was massively alarming to me, it’s pretty much an acceptance that he doesn’t believe he can develop players or get a group of players to outperform as a team. It highlights his incompetence as a manager. 
 

The comments that we should trust each other as fans / club / coaching staff. I can’t speak from the clubs and coaching staff perspective. But as a fan, I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest I should trust Unsworth. His favourite formation is 433, no evidence he wants to play it. Fast dynamic football, we havnt seen that in 30 odd games. Signings, he’s fallen out with players and axed any ounce of creativity we have had. He literally gives us nothing to trust or get behind. He didn’t want a relationship with the fans until it turned toxic and was pointed out to him. How can you trust someone like that ? 
 

The away form. This has been consistently shambolic throughout. Our first away win was Dorking last year. If that form carries on into this year, which I have seen nothing to suggest it won’t, then we can say goodbye to both automatic and playoff hopes. 
 

Matt’s comment that the playing side does not impact or is separate to culture. Absolutely disagree with this. We have a team that sits back, is negative, and grinds out results when we are lucky enough to win. This attitude reflects in the fan base and I’d imagine through the players also. If we played front foot, attacking, played to win. The fans would be far more up for it, the players would certainly be happier and it changes the culture of the fans and players. A manager that reflects the optimism of our owner would be my wish. 
 

The Willoughby treatment. Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. Poor lad will be back on loan at Chester in a few months is my guess. Shambles. 
 

Unsworths comments that a formation is not rigid. He is one the most rigid manager we have had. He’s stubborn, reluctant to change anything! To only make two subs on Saturday was brainless. How we didn’t change anything in the second half is even more puzzling. When Ward went off, that was a perfect opportunity to accept we have got this wrong and switch it. Nope we put a left sided player into the middle of the park (he actually played okay in fairness). But it highlights how rigid we are and how we have no plan B. He wasn’t at the game, fine, but he’s demonstrated his inability to change anything consistently throughout his tenure. 
 

Overall, I made my mind up about Unsworth before that Notts County game. I shut up after it and accepted as results picked up that we had to get behind him, because as much as I think he is incompetent he isn’t going anywhere until this year. The pre season games and Southend confirmed we havnt evolved as a team, it’s the same old rubbish. When he joined initially, he said we have to play 5 at the back as he couldn’t trust the defensive unit, is that his opinion now ?  I want Oldham to win every game, but I was Unsworth gone asap. The sooner he is gone, the sooner we can focus on getting out this division.

 

People will say it’s one game, but this squad is so unbalanced. We have to many forward players, to many centre backs. Not enough full backs, and not one centre mid we can trust to control a game. We have no creativity anywhere on the pitch.

 

The positive is, things are never as bad as they seem. A new manager (correct appointment) and 2/3 signings to correct the balance of the squad and we would be up battling for the title. 

Up to you DU to change it around, I hope you do, I have no faith you will. 

 

 

Spot on,my thoughts exactly.We’ve a group of strikers who are more than capable of getting the goals to get us out of this league.But we’ve a manager who has zero clue how to set a ‘winning machine’ up let alone how to create the chances that these strikers need.Since his first game we’ve sat back,the midfield literally play 10 yards from the defence leaving the strikers completely isolated.Not to mention the gaping hole at right back and a creative midfielder which we’ve had months to address.For a guy whose on 3 times the salary of Shez he’s stealing a living.

[League one forever]

Great listen that. 
 

I was pleasantly surprised with how honest the boys were, (as Matt said they have to strike a balance which is fair enough) and I agreed with everything they said. 
 

I note how Paul picked up on the mystery of the formation- it has never worked in his tenure, so please Unsy for your sake and ours play the formation that gave us the 3rd best form in the league. . . 

[basilrobbie]

I've always thought this a very good Podcast, but that was one of the best you've done in a while, I thought. Outstanding.

 

I've only seen 15 minutes of highlights of the game from the home end, but I thought you probably got ambushed on Saturday by a club and a City that were just grateful to be able to be there. That said, you looked very much on your heels at the beginning, and it kind of set the tone by the look of it.

 

This issue of slow starts interests me, in the context of "give him ten games". In our promotion season of 06/07, we lost game 11 at Carlisle. We actually played pretty well, lost 2-0,  and at the end of the game there were fights in the away end between those who were encouraged and those who couldn't see past 8 points from 11 games and 23rd place. We then took 75 from the next 35, finished the season with ten wins in a row and won the play-offs.

 

I remember in our promotion season of 69/70 we lost 6-1 at QPR in August. When we won our second play-off final we managed to lose 7-0 at Barnet, who got relegated that season. It happens. 

 

The odds are stacked against you going up. Two places is very cruel, especially when about 14/16 clubs can make a case for taking one of them. You could do it, but I think Chesterfield, Woking, Barnet, Boreham, Bromley, York and Gateshead all feel like better bets - at the moment. The only thing I will predict is that there won't be a runaway winner this time, and I think a points total in the high 80's will win it. Feel free to mock in May, as they (I)say.

 

Final point : that was top quizzing by Paul. Very impressive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nzlatic]

1 minute ago, basilrobbie said:

 

 

This issue of slow starts interests me, in the context of "give him ten games". In our promotion season of 06/07, we lost game 11 at Carlisle. We actually played pretty well, lost 2-0,  and at the end of the game there were fights in the away end between those who were encouraged and those who couldn't see past 8 points from 11 games and 23rd place. We then took 75 from the next 35, finished the season with ten wins in a row and won the play-offs.

 

 

Thanks heaps for this post, here we all are depressed after our terrible start and you go bringing up 2006/07! 

[basilrobbie]

14 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Thanks heaps for this post, here we all are depressed after our terrible start and you go bringing up 2006/07! 

 

I enjoyed it. 

 

On the second leg of that semi, I travelled up the night before because it was an earlyish kick off. I got the bus into town. But I had to get off to be sick, I was that nervous.  A feat I then repeated on the way to the City Ground for our play-off semi clincher in 2010.  

 

Our record in play off games is sensational, really. Counting drawn finals that went to penalties, our record is P 26, W 18, D5, L 3.  On the downside, we haven't won promotion automatically since 1985 (without actually playing on the night in question), and haven't clinched promotion at home since the 1920s. 

[nzlatic]

15 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

 

I enjoyed it. 

 

On the second leg of that semi, I travelled up the night before because it was an earlyish kick off. I got the bus into town. But I had to get off to be sick, I was that nervous.  A feat I then repeated on the way to the City Ground for our play-off semi clincher in 2010.  

 

Our record in play off games is sensational, really. Counting drawn finals that went to penalties, our record is P 26, W 18, D5, L 3.  On the downside, we haven't won promotion automatically since 1985 (without actually playing on the night in question), and haven't clinched promotion at home since the 1920s. 

You've played 26 play off games??? 

[BPAS]

53 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

 

I enjoyed it. 

 

On the second leg of that semi, I travelled up the night before because it was an earlyish kick off. I got the bus into town. But I had to get off to be sick, I was that nervous.  A feat I then repeated on the way to the City Ground for our play-off semi clincher in 2010.  

 

Our record in play off games is sensational, really. Counting drawn finals that went to penalties, our record is P 26, W 18, D5, L 3.  On the downside, we haven't won promotion automatically since 1985 (without actually playing on the night in question), and haven't clinched promotion at home since the 1920s. 

 

By comparison, our record in play off games is;

 

P6, W1 D1 L4, where our only win, saw us concede in the last minute to lose on away goals, so even our only win felt like the most gut wrenching loss.

Edited August 7, 2023 by BPAS

[basilrobbie]

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

You've played 26 play off games??? 

We've been in them nine times. Eight finals, of which we have won six (including  one penally shoot out) and lost two (also including a penalty shoot out).

[League one forever]

8 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

We've been in them nine times. Eight finals, of which we have won six (including  one penally shoot out) and lost two (also including a penalty shoot out).

We’re all delighted for you. 
 

We really are. 
 

 

 

 

[basilrobbie]

3 minutes ago, League one forever said:

We’re all delighted for you. 
 

We really are. 
 

 

 

 

And you are more than gracious. Anyway, this Pod......

[Lee Sinnott]

An interesting listen with good contributions from the very articulate Paul. 

 

I think the recruitment style needs looking in to a bit further, I remain far from convinced that the system works as Unsworth said two weeks ago on the podcast, especially if Ward is how described on the podcast and the bizarre handling of Willoughby. I know that the injury to Green has impacted the selection on Saturday, but having Green as our first choice wing back is quite poor considering the resources the manager has to strengthen his squad.

 

Great work by Paul on LaticsMind...

[longtimeblue]

2 hours ago, basilrobbie said:

 

I enjoyed it. 

 

On the second leg of that semi, I travelled up the night before because it was an earlyish kick off. I got the bus into town. But I had to get off to be sick, I was that nervous.  A feat I then repeated on the way to the City Ground for our play-off semi clincher in 2010.  

 

Our record in play off games is sensational, really. Counting drawn finals that went to penalties, our record is P 26, W 18, D5, L 3.  On the downside, we haven't won promotion automatically since 1985 (without actually playing on the night in question), and haven't clinched promotion at home since the 1920s. 

 

No reason to be nervous. We knew we were beaten.

[GlossopLatic]

3 hours ago, basilrobbie said:

 

This issue of slow starts interests me, in the context of "give him ten games". In our promotion season of 06/07, we lost game 11 at Carlisle. We actually played pretty well, lost 2-0,  and at the end of the game there were fights in the away end between those who were encouraged and those who couldn't see past 8 points from 11 games and 23rd place. We then took 75 from the next 35, finished the season with ten wins in a row and won the play-offs.

 

Yes for many years we've started slowly but 3 or 4 wins in and around October November and their was often talk on this message board of of "doing a Blackpool" it was a real thing.

 

The question is how long do you leave it. It begins to become a game of stick or twist at around about the end of September is when the sackings start as owners start to worry about the season slipping away from them and that they have to do something.

 

On a more general note. What is hitting home right now is our inability to bring in a quality right back/right wing back which was a problem area at the end of last season that hasn't been rectified. 

 

I've taken the default stance to back the manager saturday hasn't changed that but if we start like last season then he will be out the door certainly by October. Our bad start last season probably cost us a play off spot, but their was an excuse as the club was a mess. A similar start this season will be unacceptable the same excuse no longer applies and it will see us change manager the Rothwells won't put up with it. They will want a promotion push this season. 

 

Looking for a silver lining We've made a bad start but I'd rather something like this happen now when we have 135 points still to play for, than get half way into the season then implode. If it had been me I would have had everyone in on sunday morning at 8an making them run then sat the down to watch the game together. The Opportunity exists now to put this right and it needs to be taken. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by GlossopLatic

[Steve_R]

It really irks me when the ‘it took Wrexham 15 years etc’ line gets trotted out. it took Bristol Rovers and Grimsby one year, Orient two and Tranmere three. Orient we’re in the same state as us when they came down but sorted themselves out pretty quickly.

It can be done. It might be hard, but it’s not mission impossible.

[rudemedic]

11 minutes ago, Steve_R said:

It really irks me when the ‘it took Wrexham 15 years etc’ line gets trotted out. it took Bristol Rovers and Grimsby one year, Orient two and Tranmere three. Orient we’re in the same state as us when they came down but sorted themselves out pretty quickly.

It can be done. It might be hard, but it’s not mission impossible.

Tranmere and Grimsby were both in similar states to us when they got relegated out of the football league too.

 

I think we will have a couple more years, including this one, to get out otherwise we may be looking at Wrexham's 15 years. 

[oafc1955]

1 hour ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

Yes for many years we've started slowly but 3 or 4 wins in and around October November and their was often talk on this message board of of "doing a Blackpool" it was a real thing.

 

The question is how long do you leave it. It begins to become a game of stick or twist at around about the end of September is when the sackings start as owners start to worry about the season slipping away from them and that they have to do something.

 

On a more general note. What is hitting home right now is our inability to bring in a quality right back/right wing back which was a problem area at the end of last season that hasn't been rectified. 

 

I've taken the default stance to back the manager saturday hasn't changed that but if we start like last season then he will be out the door certainly by October. Our bad start last season probably cost us a play off spot, but their was an excuse as the club was a mess. A similar start this season will be unacceptable the same excuse no longer applies and it will see us change manager the Rothwells won't put up with it. They will want a promotion push this season. 

 

Looking for a silver lining We've made a bad start but I'd rather something like this happen now when we have 135 points still to play for, than get half way into the season then implode. If it had been me I would have had everyone in on sunday morning at 8an making them run then sat the down to watch the game together. The Opportunity exists now to put this right and it needs to be taken. 

There’s far too much to put right…we’re not tweaking a few things here and there it’s a ‘rip it up and start again job’.

Unsworth is 12 months into the job, has recruited 6 or 7 players yet that was as bad as anything I saw throughout last season.

Regardless of formation or shape, we can’t even pass a football ball and don’t look remotely comfortable in possession.

Those qualities are the very least you’d expect from any professional footballer.

Alarm bells are ringing and I just can’t see Unsworth turning around in a week what he so far hasn’t managed to do in a year!

I’ll be amazed if he sees out his contract!

 

 

 

 

[GlossopLatic]

1 hour ago, oafc1955 said:

There’s far too much to put right…we’re not tweaking a few things here and there it’s a ‘rip it up and start again job’.

Unsworth is 12 months into the job, has recruited 6 or 7 players yet that was as bad as anything I saw throughout last season.

Regardless of formation or shape, we can’t even pass a football ball and don’t look remotely comfortable in possession.

Those qualities are the very least you’d expect from any professional footballer.

Alarm bells are ringing and I just can’t see Unsworth turning around in a week what he so far hasn’t managed to do in a year!

I’ll be amazed if he sees out his contract!

 

 

 

 

 

The flip flop approach of ripping it up and starting again has failed miserably for us time and time again. This is primarily the same group of players who showed promotion form in the second half of last season plus a few others who will make a difference in time, Raglan, Hobson, Norwood, Lundstrum haven't just become bad players Im sure Dickensen Ward and even the niw sidelined Willoughby can make a big impact. It needs a consistent approach but a few minor tweaks in the right direction along the way. We will suffer bumps in the road but rather than making over Reactionary decisions which has got us into the National league in the first place we need to show cool heads. It doesn't mean we won't change the manager sometimes you have too but ripping it up and starting again every 6 months has failed miserably for us I don't want us to keep dancing that dance.

 

This squad is still good enough to get us promotion and has 135 points to play for this season. But It does need to pull its tripe out because we've just given everyone else in the league a 1 match head start on us.

Edited August 7, 2023 by GlossopLatic

[oafc1955]

but ripping it up and starting again every 6 months has failed miserably for us I don't want us to keep dancing that dance.

 

Its 12 months I’ll have you know!!
 

 

 

[LightDN123]

11 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

but ripping it up and starting again every 6 months has failed miserably for us I don't want us to keep dancing that dance.

 

Its 12 months I’ll have you know!!
 

 

 

I still remember Bromley away last year, walking away a 3-0 down thinking it can’t get much worse. Altrincham away followed a few months later, now Southend. It feels a lot longer than 12 months with Unsy in charge. Depressing.