Micky Mellon Sack Watch

[nzlatic]

Just now, BP1960 said:

 

Stats bombs?

All it needed was to watch young dynamic players live in action and sign those we could.

Instead it was some injured players with  past reputations we couldn't  possibly have assessed.

Too much reliance on stats and agents has been the problem IMO.

 

 

 

No harm having it in the mix. It all depends how it's implemented.

[BP1960]

8 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

No harm having it in the mix. It all depends how it's implemented.

 

They have a place, but the game isn't played on paper.

[League one forever]

54 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

He does this. States stuff as absolute fact, when he can't know for sure it is. 

 

Still haven’t moved on. . .

[Worcester Owl]

I don’t feel overwhelmingly impressed by Darren Royle’s tenure as CEO so far, as opposed to the magnificent support given by the Rothwells. Just on the subject of the youth team though, pathways into the first team and the fact that only Vaughan has come through recently, and then with only a few games in the first XI at that: I don’t see that Darren Royle is in any way to blame, unless we are suddenly going to start saying that the non-football guys should have influence over who is selected for the first team - in which case we’re back to the bad old days of the Chuckle Brothers. If Unsworth and Mellon don’t think youth team players are good enough for the first team, then by all means disagree but it’s their right to take that view and nobody on the board has any right to influence that. As for whether we got enough money for selling Vaughan, again, we’re a small club and in the end have to accept what another club is willing to pay.

[GlossopLatic]

My understanding is that both managers have completed autonomy when it comes to signing players. So while Darren Royle may have a roll to play in their signings, he certainly should be challenging Mellon on the January business and arguably he indulged David Unsworth more than he should have been. However it's both Unsworth and Mellon who have been/are responsible for the recruitment of 1st team players. Don't forget many were saying we wouldn't sack Unsworth because he is mates with Darren Royle how did that one turn out? So while challenging him on some of the decisions made are fine let's not assume its all his fault. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was he who approached the Rothwells about taking over anyway.

 

I think we can all agree that recruitment needs to be better but let's not lose sight of the fact that it precisely 1 million times better than the previous regime. I back the current regime to atleast learn from some of there mistakes 

[mcfluff1985]

People complaining not enough youth come through, conveniently forgetting how long it takes to bring the level of quality in an academy up

 

New ownership been here how long

[League one forever]

21 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

I don’t feel overwhelmingly impressed by Darren Royle’s tenure as CEO so far, as opposed to the magnificent support given by the Rothwells. Just on the subject of the youth team though, pathways into the first team and the fact that only Vaughan has come through recently, and then with only a few games in the first XI at that: I don’t see that Darren Royle is in any way to blame, unless we are suddenly going to start saying that the non-football guys should have influence over who is selected for the first team - in which case we’re back to the bad old days of the Chuckle Brothers. If Unsworth and Mellon don’t think youth team players are good enough for the first team, then by all means disagree but it’s their right to take that view and nobody on the board has any right to influence that. As for whether we got enough money for selling Vaughan, again, we’re a small club and in the end have to accept what another club is willing to pay.

It depends what he club is set up as or what it wants to be. 
 

When DR came in - he, in my opinion set up a vision, he talked about the youth set up, stats bomb, it gave the impression of a very detailed top to bottom analysis of what the club needed on the football side.

It felt like a Swansea/Brentford/Brighton/

Peterborough type- where the incumbent manager would be required to work within the parameters of what the club want. 
 

All good. 
 

In reality it has just become- back the manager with whatever he feels is necessary. That’s isn’t made up or guesswork that’s what has happened,  and we are left we an awfully imbalanced squad. The panacea being- two managers haven’t felt it necessary to sign a right back for a side aiming for promotion. (Freeman and Sav are stop gaps) Shouldn’t that alarm the club? Should they be sanctioning another midfielder or striker?? When we leave everything to the manager. . what are we left with??? 
 

In my opinion there is nothing wrong in saying to a manager please will you include one or two youth players in the set up on a regular basis, and try to blood them in lesser games so we can have a look. Kofi Moore has had a few minutes . . . that’s it. Not very good for a club who needs to maximise their youth set up. 
 

 

[League one forever]

1 minute ago, mcfluff1985 said:

People complaining not enough youth come through, conveniently forgetting how long it takes to bring the level of quality in an academy up

 

New ownership been here how long

How can you can state something as fact, when you have no idea how long it takes?  

 

We had a one player who got sold in the owners first season- where did he come from? Oh- the youth set up. 
 

According to BP we have at least one or two who at the very least could be in and around the first team and given some minutes. (In a side desperate for some pace and energy) 
 

How on earth have we found them in so little time under the owners. . ?? 
 

 

[Ackey]

10 hours ago, BP1960 said:

They have a place, but the game isn't played on paper.

All the best teams in the world are heavily stats based these days? There's no elite team winning a top-tier league in Europe without a sizable data department used for all kinds of things...?

[League one forever]

17 minutes ago, Ackey said:

All the best teams in the world are heavily stats based these days? There's no elite team winning a top-tier league in Europe without a sizable data department used for all kinds of things...?

Brad made a very interesting observation on the phone inn last night- only us and York use stats bomb and both clubs have seen big budgets blown on bloated underperforming squads. . . 
 

Matt speculated that he thought Mellon might be talking to the board- with ‘I know what a good player looks like’ 

 

Everything about the club barring the actual team performance is great, but it’s obvious with the size of the squad and its under performance that something isn’t right, and it’s a collective responsibility. 

[Littlemoor Lad]

11 hours ago, BP1960 said:

 

They have a place, but the game isn't played on paper.

Damned right it isn't,

All about on the day, don't turn up get beat

[simplythemostimportantkick]

10 hours ago, Worcester Owl said:

I don’t feel overwhelmingly impressed by Darren Royle’s  Just on the subject of the youth team though, pathways into the first team and the fact that only Vaughan has come through recently, 

Sutton too. Know what you mean tho. Not enough. I imagine they aren’t good enough or they’d be chucked in. It’s ok them standing out against other kids but to cut it against blokes is another story. 

[nzlatic]

27 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Brad made a very interesting observation on the phone inn last night- only us and York use stats bomb and both clubs have seen big budgets blown on bloated underperforming squads. . . 
 

Matt speculated that he thought Mellon might be talking to the board- with ‘I know what a good player looks like’ 

 

Everything about the club barring the actual team performance is great, but it’s obvious with the size of the squad and its under performance that something isn’t right, and it’s a collective responsibility. 

With the stats thing, it just boils down to how it's used. It doesn't mean it's wrong to have it. Royle introduced it which should in theory be a good thing, if it's not being used correctly then that's a human problem. Which is the recruitment team, whoever that is.

 

If you filled the gym with all the best equipment then had a trainer telling people the wrong way to use it, it's not the equipment that's at fault.

[Can Neil Redfearn Do It]

21 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

I'd want a zero on the end of those oodds.  No chance

 

As you will realise you'd be better off backing the requisite 7 wins/qualifications and rolling over the winnings.

 

Average odds of 5/4 would return about 300/1, and if the first 4 wins weren't enough to get us into the fifth game then you'd still have a good return

[BP1960]

1 hour ago, Ackey said:

All the best teams in the world are heavily stats based these days? There's no elite team winning a top-tier league in Europe without a sizable data department used for all kinds of things...?

 

Top players can be regularly watched so it's easy to check on their current form. At our level we are looking

at statistics from sometimes previous years thinking they are still the same. That's the big mistake. 

Let's put in another way too, the stats bombs on Josh Stones wouldn't show much, but actually watching him painted a very different picture. it's that method I'd like to see MM use in future to bring in young dynamic talent, rather than 'we've not seen him play, but he used to be good according to his track record'. 

 

Edited April 4 by BP1960

[nzlatic]

16 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

At our level we are looking at statistics from sometimes previous years thinking they are still the same. That's the big mistake. 

 

 

Do you know this for sure BP? 

 

My query on stats at this level would be do they offer enough depth? With a million camera angles and data tracking options teams at the top must have, you could track anything. But other than player GPS and camera shots that spend most of the time waving around looking at the stand and the sky, I can't imagine the data recording is at the same level.

 

It would be useful to have someone who knows the systems explain more about how they could be used by clubs at this level. Without that we're all guessing.

[Worcester Owl]

28 minutes ago, simplythemostimportantkick said:

Sutton too. Know what you mean tho. Not enough. I imagine they aren’t good enough or they’d be chucked in. It’s ok them standing out against other kids but to cut it against blokes is another story. 

Yes Sutton too, bad of me to overlook him. Apart from the disaster for the goal, I thought he played ok against Altrincham. 

[League one forever]

29 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

With the stats thing, it just boils down to how it's used. It doesn't mean it's wrong to have it. Royle introduced it which should in theory be a good thing, if it's not being used correctly then that's a human problem. Which is the recruitment team, whoever that is.

 

If you filled the gym with all the best equipment then had a trainer telling people the wrong way to use it, it's not the equipment that's at fault.

Yep- I’m not wedded to stats bomb either way. 
 

What’s important - (and it’s what I said earlier in the thread) is it a club thing where the manager has to work with it. Is it causing friction between DR and the manager? 
 

Everyone from top to bottom has to buy into the same process- as far as I can see we’ve got different ideas and objectives which is leading to muddled decision making with the squad. 

[Dave_Og]

39 minutes ago, Can Neil Redfearn Do It said:

 

As you will realise you'd be better off backing the requisite 7 wins/qualifications and rolling over the winnings.

 

Average odds of 5/4 would return about 300/1, and if the first 4 wins weren't enough to get us into the fifth game then you'd still have a good return

 

Indeed.  Although if we happen to beat Rochdale and Halifax we'll be a lot shorter than 5/4 for the games v Oxford & Wealdstone.  The bookies love punters who don't think about such things.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Does Stats Bomb (Stats Bomb. You're my Stats Bomb) give you data on midfielders who put in a massive crunching tackle within the first minute? I think that's where it's coming up short.

[mcfluff1985]

10 hours ago, League one forever said:

 

We had a one player who got sold in the owners first season- where did he come from? Oh- the youth set up. 
 

Did the current ownership bring him in or was he here before?

 

 

10 hours ago, League one forever said:

According to BP we have at least one or two who at the very least could be in and around the first team and given some minutes. (In a side desperate for some pace and energy) 

 

Right. And? They've played against kids. I trust YT manager, Murray, Brabin and MM over BP

 

10 hours ago, League one forever said:

 

 

 

 

How on earth have we found them in so little time under the owners. . ?? 
 

 

Found who?

[nzlatic]

6 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

Does Stats Bomb (Stats Bomb. You're my Stats Bomb) give you data on midfielders who put in a massive crunching tackle within the first minute? I think that's where it's coming up short.

xR (expected reducers) stat needed urgently. 

[League one forever]

14 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

Did the current ownership bring him in or was he here before?

He was there before, which shows the youth team was producing players before Frank and co and they didn’t have to start again or wait years for the youth team to bear fruit. 
 

17 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

Right. And? They've played against kids. I trust YT manager, Murray, Brabin and MM over BP

It’s not a competition and I wasn’t comparing BP to Mellon and Co, I just know he watches a lot of youth team football and has spoken highly of a couple- it would be nice if we could develop a couple. We’ll never know, if we never give them a go. 
 

19 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

Found who?

One was Forshaw I think, and I can’t remember the other lads name. 
 

 

In your opinion- Do you think a profitable youth team is important for the club. Or do you think it’s just a nice to have? 
 

Personally I’d love to see some of our own come through and sold for profit- that hopefully would be re- invested in the first team. We can’t just rely on Frank pouring money in, the club needs to look at every avenue to make money. 

[TheBigDog]

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

With the stats thing, it just boils down to how it's used.

This. Brentford and Brighton use the statistical analysis properly. Others don’t.

[deyres42]

1 hour ago, League one forever said:

Yep- I’m not wedded to stats bomb either way. 
 

What’s important - (and it’s what I said earlier in the thread) is it a club thing where the manager has to work with it. Is it causing friction between DR and the manager? 
 

Everyone from top to bottom has to buy into the same process- as far as I can see we’ve got different ideas and objectives which is leading to muddled decision making with the squad. 

Looking increasingly obvious that not much thought went into the appointment beyond looking at his previous record.

 

He was clearly brought in to either win or go very close to winning promotion this season and got nowhere near it.