Frankies6 Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 1 hour ago, boyinthesnow said: I see in his press after the game, Dino says we have only 2 centre forwards. Assuming he means Azankpo and Wilson....hes obviously not a fan of Vera either. Did say he will try and get a striker in but that his hands are tied due to being outside of the window. yes.. we can only bring in out of contract players,id see if peter crouch fancies a kick about on a Saturday.. desperate for some height up front.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 57 minutes ago, Frankies6 said: Tippy Tappy football with no end product.. Carlisle got the better of us yesterday they sat in and made it hard for us to play our crisp passing game which is becoming ery predictable, very lightweight and no plan B. Just keep playing the same way god help us when the pitches start resembling council pitches in winter and we continue playing tippy tappy.. All parts of yesterday were shocking.. and maouche escaped being subbed again,must be a clause in his contract saying he must play 90 minutes Isn't any team that plays a "crisp, passing game" very predictable? What is plan B? Hoofball? Different league, same old moaning. Amazing how quick people were to come on here yesterday, yet last week the silence was almost deafening. Nothing will change unless the new manager gets a tune out of them and I remain to be convinced. Not saying it won't happen but it won't be an overnight process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, Wardie said: Isn't any team that plays a "crisp, passing game" very predictable? What is plan B? Hoofball? Different league, same old moaning. Amazing how quick people were to come on here yesterday, yet last week the silence was almost deafening. Nothing will change unless the new manager gets a tune out of them and I remain to be convinced. Not saying it won't happen but it won't be an overnight process. A bit of hoofball at this level? Don't see a problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 Just now, Dave_Og said: A bit of hoofball at this level? Don't see a problem with that. At this level? I don't like hoofball at any level. I get what you mean, Dave, but when people say "No plan B" I would like them to maybe offer some opinion of just what "Plan B" should be. Some statements are so easy to spout, backing them up, not so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Wardie said: At this level? I don't like hoofball at any level. I get what you mean, Dave, but when people say "No plan B" I would like them to maybe offer some opinion of just what "Plan B" should be. Some statements are so easy to spout, backing them up, not so easy. I kind of agree. I loath the phrase 'he was tactically naive' which is usually spouted by someone whose tactics have been honed by a computer game. I've no issue with mixing it p and playing it long but Id be more concerned wioth the thought that there's barely a credible Plan A! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 30 minutes ago, Wardie said: At this level? I don't like hoofball at any level. I get what you mean, Dave, but when people say "No plan B" I would like them to maybe offer some opinion of just what "Plan B" should be. Some statements are so easy to spout, backing them up, not so easy. “Plan B” could mean change to a back 3, or 2 up top, or go more direct, lots of things really. It seems our subs were just like for like changes and we kept the same formation we’ve had all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1906 Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Wardie said: At this level? I don't like hoofball at any level. I get what you mean, Dave, but when people say "No plan B" I would like them to maybe offer some opinion of just what "Plan B" should be. Some statements are so easy to spout, backing them up, not so easy. Plan B is to get the ball in the box instead of pratting about with it in our half or around the halfway line. If we get the ball in the opposition penalty area something might happen. Nothing is going to happen 50 yards away from goal. Tippy tappy football is sooooo boring at times, especially when there is very little end product. A big centre forward, a target man to aim for who can hold the ball up or provide ‘flick ons’ for the likes of Azankpo, Wilson or Branger to run on to. We need to be able to offer a variation, even if only as a substitute, because at the moment we are very one dimensional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankies6 Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 4 hours ago, Wardie said: Isn't any team that plays a "crisp, passing game" very predictable? What is plan B? Hoofball? Different league, same old moaning. Amazing how quick people were to come on here yesterday, yet last week the silence was almost deafening. Nothing will change unless the new manager gets a tune out of them and I remain to be convinced. Not saying it won't happen but it won't be an overnight process. Play Direct , put these Div 2 centre backs under pressure.. instead of these predictable formations.. Yes crisp football is great ive been brought up with it and ive played in sides that adopted to play on the grass.. Yes lets carry on as we are and come away from the likes of carlisle with 0 points.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDHAMADE Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Dave_Og said: A bit of hoofball at this level? Don't see a problem with that. More than a bit when the fancy football isn't working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh_latics Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Gerritforwaaaard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukers1 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Saw Matt Smith lead Millwall line at Huddersfield on Saturday, he’s actually gone bigger!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 14 hours ago, Wardie said: Amazing how quick people were to come on here yesterday, yet last week the silence was almost deafening. I thought the opposite, so I had a look. The Morecambe thread was nearly on its 9th page by the end of Saturday, this one was only just on it's 6th. Given it was a flat performance, some questionable subs, not many chances of note, losing to a side that played poorly by all accounts, I thought it was pretty quiet on here really. And if OWTB can't go into meltdown after a result like that then the apathy may have well and truly settled in. Which is a pretty worrying thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Back in 89/90 when we'd just beaten Villa 3-0 (then top of Div 1 I think) their manager Graham Taylor said Latics go the ball into the opposition box at every possible opportunity and teams hated trying to defend against that.. Still the tactic most likely to get goals - if we have players in the box too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankies6 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 47 minutes ago, LaticsPete said: Back in 89/90 when we'd just beaten Villa 3-0 (then top of Div 1 I think) their manager Graham Taylor said Latics go the ball into the opposition box at every possible opportunity and teams hated trying to defend against that.. Still the tactic most likely to get goals - if we have players in the box too. But now we play about 10 passes backwards and sideways, then lose possession, but people would rather have that than playing direct/ long because its prettier on the eye ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1906 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, LaticsPete said: Back in 89/90 when we'd just beaten Villa 3-0 (then top of Div 1 I think) their manager Graham Taylor said Latics go the ball into the opposition box at every possible opportunity and teams hated trying to defend against that.. Still the tactic most likely to get goals - if we have players in the box too. Spot on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Pyro No Party Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 All these years listening to people at BP moan about how Latics play hoofball just for people to moan when they start passing it along the floor... We have mismatched team this year; of course we're not gonna be doing well. Sadly it isn't the 89/90 season but rather the lowest we've been in umpteen years (wiping my tears as I'm typing this). If we started hoofing it though we'd have lost that Morecambe game. They were worse than us but they couldn't keep up with our passing. When it was 2-1 they started carrying the ball more when we hoofed it and looked dangerous. Yet passing got us the third. It wore them down, made us look like we knew what we were doing. If we had a different midfield, i.e. not Maouche because he can't carry the ball or out-strength the opposition, we'd be in a different situation. Added strength as well as being able to feed the ball forward would see us convert chances. But we don't have it this year (yet. Interested to see what the transfer window does for us). It's no wonder we miss sitters because our strikers' chances are so few and far in between. We know they can do it but who's feeding it to them? Anyway, it's not like passing it around has ever been adopted by an entire country to help win them the World Cup or their clubs the Champions League. Wait a minute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1906 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, No Pyro No Party said: All these years listening to people at BP moan about how Latics play hoofball just for people to moan when they start passing it along the floor... We have mismatched team this year; of course we're not gonna be doing well. Sadly it isn't the 89/90 season but rather the lowest we've been in umpteen years (wiping my tears as I'm typing this). If we started hoofing it though we'd have lost that Morecambe game. They were worse than us but they couldn't keep up with our passing. When it was 2-1 they started carrying the ball more when we hoofed it and looked dangerous. Yet passing got us the third. It wore them down, made us look like we knew what we were doing. If we had a different midfield, i.e. not Maouche because he can't carry the ball or out-strength the opposition, we'd be in a different situation. Added strength as well as being able to feed the ball forward would see us convert chances. Because we don't have it this year. It's no wonder we miss sitters because our strikers' chances are so few and far in between. We know they can do it but who's feeding it to them? Anyway, it's not like passing it around has ever been adopted by an entire country to help win them the World Cup or their clubs the Champions League. Wait a minute... The last part of your argument is where the problem lies. Top class international teams like France eg, and top class domestic league teams like City, Liverpool, Spurs etc have the personnel to play those particular styles and systems. Not many League 2 sides do, and certainly not Latics! We just don’t get the ball forward quickly enough. Just look at the ‘goals for’ tally for us over the past few seasons. It’s been abysmal. We just haven’t got the players to adopt that style. When it’s done properly a la City and Liverpool, they score around 100 goals per season, whereas we scored 62 last season, 50 in our final season in League 1 and 53 the season before. It’s not exactly worked for us has it?? Get the ball in the box!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I frequently shout "forward" to our players at home matches meaning to look forward not take the easy option and turn backwards away from any opposing players. I don't want "long ball" tactics because we obviously haven't the players needed to successfully facilitate that method of play however what we need to do is get crosses into the box as soon as possible whilst ensuring we have more than one man in there ! Many goals at our level are a result of defensive mistakes when crosses are bounced around the six yard line ( a la Rick Holden ) before the defence has time to set itself. Obviously we'd need more than a one man attack to prosper from this but it goes without saying that we should have a pair up front when playing home matches. We seem to want to play the "perfect" cross trying to find a diminutive lone forward rather than smashing a low ball in and picking up the pieces. Play on opponents defensive frailties and get shots off early instead of trying to score tap-ins are the way forward at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 16 hours ago, Wardie said: At this level? I don't like hoofball at any level. I get what you mean, Dave, but when people say "No plan B" I would like them to maybe offer some opinion of just what "Plan B" should be. Some statements are so easy to spout, backing them up, not so easy. Shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I do think we occasionally misunderstand this concept here whether its people describing its as "Tippy Tappy football" or "Hoofball" Whats required is accurate fast passing that moves the team forward. if you keep possession but just go from side to side you don't move the opposition about and they just wait until you give it away. Yet at the same time their is no point just getting it forward for getting it forwards sake, because it will just run through to the keeper out of play or to the opposition and you will spend most of the game chasing the ball. Whats required is more accurate forward passes and more runners from deep getting into the box. The likes of Liverpool and City only play with 1 up the middle but that's never a problem because of the amount of runners often 4-5 getting into the box. From what I've seen this season we give the ball away far too often in the opposition half of the pitch and when we do have it, we don't get anywhere near enough runners into the box. We sort this out we start to get plan A working, and once we get plan A sorted then we can think about Plan B right whatever that maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, GlossopLatic said: I do think we occasionally misunderstand this concept here whether its people describing its as "Tippy Tappy football" or "Hoofball" Whats required is accurate fast passing that moves the team forward. if you keep possession but just go from side to side you don't move the opposition about and they just wait until you give it away. Yet at the same time their is no point just getting it forward for getting it forwards sake, because it will just run through to the keeper out of play or to the opposition and you will spend most of the game chasing the ball. Whats required is more accurate forward passes and more runners from deep getting into the box. The likes of Liverpool and City only play with 1 up the middle but that's never a problem because of the amount of runners often 4-5 getting into the box. From what I've seen this season we give the ball away far too often in the opposition half of the pitch and when we do have it, we don't get anywhere near enough runners into the box. We sort this out we start to get plan A working, and once we get plan A sorted then we can think about Plan B right whatever that maybe. It is tippy, tappy football but that's not the problem - the problem is too many players go through the motions and rarely take a chance. Doing their little bit and not giving it away/making a mistake/trying something that doesn't come off is what's most important to them. It's not just this side/manager/owner it's been the way for years now, I first remember noticing it with Dean Furman. Maybe a generational thing that we're now well into.... Like many of us I'm not a huge fan of either but, to give them their due, Branger and Maouche are the two who do try something regularly. Morais aswell now and Eagles when he plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: It is tippy, tappy football but that's not the problem - the problem is too many players go through the motions and rarely take a chance. Doing their little bit and not giving it away/making a mistake/trying something that doesn't come off is what's most important to them. It's not just this side/manager/owner it's been the way for years now, I first remember noticing it with Dean Furman. Maybe a generational thing that we're now well into.... Like many of us I'm not a huge fan of either but, to give them their due, Branger and Maouche are the two who do try something regularly. Morais aswell now and Eagles when he plays. I agree that their is no point in keeping possession for possessions sake but those players you highlighted probably need to make sure the things they try come off more often if so chances more will be created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: It is tippy, tappy football but that's not the problem - the problem is too many players go through the motions and rarely take a chance. .... Like many of us I'm not a huge fan of either but, to give them their due, Branger and Maouche are the two who do try something regularly. Morais aswell now and Eagles when he plays. Waits for the ‘ <insert player name> goes missing/is stealing a living boys’ to express their outrage at your last sentence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 31 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: I agree that their is no point in keeping possession for possessions sake but those players you highlighted probably need to make sure the things they try come off more often if so chances more will be created. Yes, that would be nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: I agree that their is no point in keeping possession for possessions sake but those players you highlighted probably need to make sure the things they try come off more often if so chances more will be created. If we look at our attacking performance. According to the match statistics from the game at Carlisle: 12 shots 1 on target. 9 shots from inside the box. 8% shooting accuracy. 5 corners 2 of which led to an attempt on goal. 21 crosses. 24% crossing accuracy. Attempts on goal were shared by 7 players. Segbe, Branger, Sylla, Missilou, Fage with 2 each and Maouche & Morais with 1 each. Chances created were shared by 6 players. Maouche with 4, Segbe 3 and Mills & Morais with 2. Hamer with 1. Standouts for me from that little lot are shooting accuracy of 1 in 12 and crossing accuracy of 1 in 4. One other thing - we didn’t have an attempt on goal from 49th minute until the 81st minute... Yes they are only stats and don’t paint the full picture but interesting nonetheless. #ilovestatsme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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