JoeP Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 17 minutes ago, League one forever said: If we are winning playing ugly - do you care? I think we have started winning because he’s playing basic football in a basic set up and relying on our quality players- but again -if he’s winning, who cares?? Following his comments last week, It will be fascinating to see what his ‘pretty football’ looks like once we’re out of danger. Because I don’t think he’s good enough tactically to implement anything other than basic football- his record with us demonstrates that. Id like him to stick to his winning formula and just win games. A promotion's a promotion, however we get it I guess... It won't be the most interesting watch though and as I say I think his approach is flawed if we're serious about a promotion push. I think we can do it better. We're Oldham Athletic. We shouldn't be in this division. We should be looking to buy the best players in the division, get the best manager in the division and not have to grind out wins against the team at the bottom of the table. There' I've said it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 15 minutes ago, JoeP said: A promotion's a promotion, however we get it I guess... It won't be the most interesting watch though and as I say I think his approach is flawed if we're serious about a promotion push. I think we can do it better. We're Oldham Athletic. We shouldn't be in this division. We should be looking to buy the best players in the division, get the best manager in the division and not have to grind out wins against the team at the bottom of the table. There' I've said it... Totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 12 minutes ago, JoeP said: A promotion's a promotion, however we get it I guess... Absolutely, I would take promotion no matter how it’s achieved, however, I don’t buy into this horses for coarse’s attitude that you have to play ugly to have success. Wrexham & Notts County have footballed their way to the top of this division and I don’t think you can say that any of the sides in the play offs are hoof ball specialists. IMO, over the course of a season a good ‘football’ team will prevail 99% of the time. I would much rather be entertained during any promotion push!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 31 minutes ago, JoeP said: A promotion's a promotion, however we get it I guess... It won't be the most interesting watch though and as I say I think his approach is flawed if we're serious about a promotion push. I think we can do it better. We're Oldham Athletic. We shouldn't be in this division. We should be looking to buy the best players in the division, get the best manager in the division and not have to grind out wins against the team at the bottom of the table. There' I've said it... Who we are is moot Joe. He is here, and isn’t going anywhere. So- Do you think he is capable of a promotion push next season playing the way he is? (My view is- it’s unlikely but it’s the only way he will have success) Or Do you think he can morph our style into attractive winning football for a promotion push next season? (No for me, because he isn’t good enough tactically, his record prior to basic set up was beyond dire.) I just think we’ll have to get used to it, because he’s isn’t good enough to play expansive football, and if we’re winning- we can’t complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 27 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: Absolutely, I would take promotion no matter how it’s achieved, however, I don’t buy into this horses for coarse’s attitude that you have to play ugly to have success. Wrexham & Notts County have footballed their way to the top of this division and I don’t think you can say that any of the sides in the play offs are hoof ball specialists. IMO, over the course of a season a good ‘football’ team will prevail 99% of the time. I would much rather be entertained during any promotion push!! There is a difference between what you want and the reality of our manager. To get what you want- and playing like Notts county means sacking the manager in my view. Which isn’t going to happen. Do you think he should be sacked for one loss in eight because it’s a hard watch??? I called for him to be sacked when he couldn’t win a game- and around new year it looked desperate for him. I repeatedly called for a basic set up the players understood and to be fair since he has done that- you can’t argue with his record since the new year. So maybe as fans- we need to realise what is ultimately more important. Result or style. Because you aren’t getting both with Unsworth. The board aren’t sacking him for ugly winning football. I didn’t like what happened to Moore when he was hounded out for winning ugly football, and this is going a similar way. If he loses- criticism is justified. If he wins- it’s churlish to criticise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, League one forever said: There is a difference between what you want and the reality of our manager. To get what you want- and playing like Notts county means sacking the manager in my view. Which isn’t going to happen. Do you think he should be sacked for one loss in eight because it’s a hard watch??? I called for him to be sacked when he couldn’t win a game- and around new year it looked desperate for him. I repeatedly called for a basic set up the players understood and to be fair since he has done that- you can’t argue with his record since the new year. So maybe as fans- we need to realise what is ultimately more important. Result or style. Because you aren’t getting both with Unsworth. The board aren’t sacking him for ugly winning football. I didn’t like what happened to Moore when he was hounded out for winning ugly football, and this is going a similar way. If he loses- criticism is justified. If he wins- it’s churlish to criticise. It isn't even ugly football, its fucking shite. Get rid in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 30 minutes ago, League one forever said: Who we are is moot Joe. He is here, and isn’t going anywhere. So- Do you think he is capable of a promotion push next season playing the way he is? (My view is- it’s unlikely but it’s the only way he will have success) Or Do you think he can morph our style into attractive winning football for a promotion push next season? (No for me, because he isn’t good enough tactically, his record prior to basic set up was beyond dire.) I just think we’ll have to get used to it, because he’s isn’t good enough to play expansive football, and if we’re winning- we can’t complain. No and No. As I say, I want him to do well because it'll mean the club is doing well. If it is through this turgid football then it is what it is, but I'm going reserve the right to moan about it. I'd also take compensation from the first club that offers it and there'll be no "Please Dave, Don't Go" message around the LED boards, I wouldn't have thought.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, disjointed said: It isn't even ugly football, its fucking shite. Get rid in the summer. Not a chance he’s going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, JoeP said: No and No. As I say, I want him to do well because it'll mean the club is doing well. If it is through this turgid football then it is what it is, but I'm going reserve the right to moan about it. I'd also take compensation from the first club that offers it and there'll be no "Please Dave, Don't Go" message around the LED boards, I wouldn't have thought.. We’ll have to agree to disagree on the merits of moaning when winning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 8 hours ago, frizzell54 said: What bothers me is our reliance on “Worldies” Can't believe we're relying on goals to win... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrek Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said: Can't believe we're relying on goals to win... We should have points deducted for any points we get because our goalie is better than theirs as well, fairs fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Would love to be proven wrong but there’s fucks chance of him playing ugly or pretty and sustaining any sort of challenge. Not off what he’s shown so far. I’d take awful football if I felt it was sustainable. This Indian summer we’ve had in our season is purely down to playing pub teams and allotments. We’ve won twice against sides above us in the league. He hasn’t stumbled onto anything but a run of absolutely shite teams to play, mostly at home. It we want to talk about winning ugly then it wasn’t pretty under Dowie but you knew it was well drilled, organised, sustainable against almost all teams. And there were some players that were average but played above their natural level. Not a snowballs chance in hell Unsworth can manage a squad like that. Or even close to it. If I saw a crumb of Dowie in him I’d say give him chance. But sadly, it feels like the car salesman will waste a couple of years of our lives as his buddy keeps him in the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrek Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 30 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: Would love to be proven wrong but there’s fucks chance of him playing ugly or pretty and sustaining any sort of challenge. Not off what he’s shown so far. I’d take awful football if I felt it was sustainable. This Indian summer we’ve had in our season is purely down to playing pub teams and allotments. We’ve won twice against sides above us in the league. He hasn’t stumbled onto anything but a run of absolutely shite teams to play, mostly at home. It we want to talk about winning ugly then it wasn’t pretty under Dowie but you knew it was well drilled, organised, sustainable against almost all teams. And there were some players that were average but played above their natural level. Not a snowballs chance in hell Unsworth can manage a squad like that. Or even close to it. If I saw a crumb of Dowie in him I’d say give him chance. But sadly, it feels like the car salesman will waste a couple of years of our lives as his buddy keeps him in the job. We've so many signings it's hard to be well drilled and a cohesive unit. The different units of the pitch have played single figures together. It'll come. No other side will have had the turnover we've had since the summer and then again when Shez got the boot. Last 10 league games, only Notts County and Wrexham have outscored us. We've scored over 50% of this seasons league goals in those 10 games. Nuttall in particular has been key to that as he's a good foil up top. The test is if this can be maintained. Won't carry on all season but clearly this side we have now is capable of beating sides, even if it's just because we have better finishers. I recall that Scunthorpe side we battled with were shite, just had Beckford and Hooper scoring most chances they get. Many ways to skin a cat. There is no reason given a full pre season, one or two more quality additions and time together that this side won't be one of the better sides in the league. Patience, think of your blood pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Some people believe that goals that are scored via perceived luck or opposition mistakes should be disregarded. I don't agree with that opinion but respect the right of anyone who does hold such a view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 59 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: Would love to be proven wrong but there’s fucks chance of him playing ugly or pretty and sustaining any sort of challenge. Not off what he’s shown so far. I’d take awful football if I felt it was sustainable. This Indian summer we’ve had in our season is purely down to playing pub teams and allotments. We’ve won twice against sides above us in the league. He hasn’t stumbled onto anything but a run of absolutely shite teams to play, mostly at home. It we want to talk about winning ugly then it wasn’t pretty under Dowie but you knew it was well drilled, organised, sustainable against almost all teams. And there were some players that were average but played above their natural level. Not a snowballs chance in hell Unsworth can manage a squad like that. Or even close to it. If I saw a crumb of Dowie in him I’d say give him chance. But sadly, it feels like the car salesman will waste a couple of years of our lives as his buddy keeps him in the job. Before Christmas many folk were saying there was zero chance of picking up enough points to stay up with Unsworth in charge. Despite the caveats you've put in, he's done just that once the squad became more settled and they'd all (him included) had time to bed in. Yes, the football is shite, but it's possible that he's capable of learning and getting better and playing more football on the deck in the future. Not talking Brazil, but just enough passing to make it feel like we're in control of a game. I agree - I don't think it's sustainable as it is in terms of a promotion push and won't do much to get fans onside. Which is what will be needed in the next few weeks when we're looking to flog season tickets. My hope is the plan is to pull away from the drop zone and then start to build on the football side of things. That's what has been implied in interviews. Needs delivering over the next few weeks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 hours ago, boundaryblue80 said: Would love to be proven wrong but there’s fucks chance of him playing ugly or pretty and sustaining any sort of challenge. Not off what he’s shown so far. I’d take awful football if I felt it was sustainable. This Indian summer we’ve had in our season is purely down to playing pub teams and allotments. We’ve won twice against sides above us in the league. He hasn’t stumbled onto anything but a run of absolutely shite teams to play, mostly at home. It we want to talk about winning ugly then it wasn’t pretty under Dowie but you knew it was well drilled, organised, sustainable against almost all teams. And there were some players that were average but played above their natural level. Not a snowballs chance in hell Unsworth can manage a squad like that. Or even close to it. If I saw a crumb of Dowie in him I’d say give him chance. But sadly, it feels like the car salesman will waste a couple of years of our lives as his buddy keeps him in the job. He hasn’t tried ugly football against the better sides- it was only until Notts county at home that this attritional football started. (We drew that game) Before that he was doing every formation under the sun with a 3 and 5 in it. Granted we’ve have had a run against some of weaker sides, but does that not count. . ?? I’m not advocating for ugly football, but he isn’t good enough to do anything else- his record and tactics prior to new year proves that in my view. The board aren’t going to sack him for winning ugly, and nor should they. The question now is- will fans ‘put up’ with winning ugly- after one loss in eight it would appear not. It’s gone from He needs to win games. (Which he has) To Wining ugly is shit - he needs to win playing attractive football. It’s very harsh. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, League one forever said: He hasn’t tried ugly football against the better sides- it was only until Notts county at home that this attritional football started. (We drew that game) Before that he was doing every formation under the sun with a 3 and 5 in it. Granted we’ve have had a run against some of weaker sides, but does that not count. . ?? I’m not advocating for ugly football, but he isn’t good enough to do anything else- his record and tactics prior to new year proves that in my view. The board aren’t going to sack him for winning ugly, and nor should they. The question now is- will fans ‘put up’ with winning ugly- after one loss in eight it would appear not. It’s gone from He needs to win games. (Which he has) To Wining ugly is shit - he needs to win playing attractive football. It’s very harsh. The point is really, can we win, or seriously challenge for promotion playing like this, and if so, will the fans put up with it? We’re all desperate for success so I’m guessing the answer would be yes. Skip forward a year and we’re top or near the top (hard to imagine I know) and I think the atmosphere would be different. The question is, is that possible playing so negatively, and can Unsworth deliver it if it is? Many believe the answer to be ‘no’ to both. We’ll find out though I’m sure, as I don’t think he’s going anywhere anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Steve_R said: The point is really, can we win, or seriously challenge for promotion playing like this, and if so, will the fans put up with it? We’re all desperate for success so I’m guessing the answer would be yes. Skip forward a year and we’re top or near the top (hard to imagine I know) and I think the atmosphere would be different. The question is, is that possible playing so negatively, and can Unsworth deliver it if it is? Many believe the answer to be ‘no’ to both. We’ll find out though I’m sure, as I don’t think he’s going anywhere anytime soon. Good post. Your fist line nails it. I think playing this way over the course of a season will have us challenging. Because we have enough individual quality to win games. Whilst being fairly tight at the back. But - like you say. Will fans be satisfied playing this way if we are challenging. . . I genuinely don’t think they will. (Remember Moore) I think to be unhappy with winning more than you lose in whatever way it comes is a very bizarre view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 18 minutes ago, League one forever said: Good post. Your fist line nails it. I think playing this way over the course of a season will have us challenging. Because we have enough individual quality to win games. Whilst being fairly tight at the back. But - like you say. Will fans be satisfied playing this way if we are challenging. . . I genuinely don’t think they will. (Remember Moore) I think to be unhappy with winning more than you lose in whatever way it comes is a very bizarre view. I get what you are saying, but the current run of games in my eyes is a blip, I would wager we are very close to the next losing streak, its awful to watch and the clamour for his head will soon be with us again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, disjointed said: I get what you are saying, but the current run of games in my eyes is a blip, I would wager we are very close to the next losing streak, its awful to watch and the clamour for his head will soon be with us again. There’s no question we’ll lose games, but I think the side have now shown enough to not go on a run like the one before new year. (And certainly not bad enough to sack him) Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrek Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 46 minutes ago, League one forever said: Good post. Your fist line nails it. I think playing this way over the course of a season will have us challenging. Because we have enough individual quality to win games. Whilst being fairly tight at the back. But - like you say. Will fans be satisfied playing this way if we are challenging. . . I genuinely don’t think they will. (Remember Moore) I think to be unhappy with winning more than you lose in whatever way it comes is a very bizarre view. I think as they gel the football will come. A decent right back and someone in midfield who can move the ball around and we're bound to 'look' better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrek Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 26 minutes ago, disjointed said: the clamour for his head will soon be with us again. It's already being lined up, anticipated even, by those wanting to be proved correct that he needs sacking. He probably warranted the sack in November and December. They backed him and signed Nutall. We're now getting there as a side. Kill relegation off and then he can experiment for the last few games hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 50 minutes ago, League one forever said: Good post. Your fist line nails it. I think playing this way over the course of a season will have us challenging. Because we have enough individual quality to win games. Whilst being fairly tight at the back. But - like you say. Will fans be satisfied playing this way if we are challenging. . . I genuinely don’t think they will. (Remember Moore) I think to be unhappy with winning more than you lose in whatever way it comes is a very bizarre view. When Ronnie Moore was here we finished 10th, and we’re in the bottom half for a good while. We’re currently 16th. If you play boring football then there has to be success at the end of it. Although 10th was a big improvement on the previous season when we stayed up on the last day, it was basically only a mid table finish which didn’t appease anybody. if Unsworth has us in the top two or three next season playing like this he might win people over, but if not he’s no chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrek Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Steve_R said: When Ronnie Moore was here we finished 10th, and we’re in the bottom half for a good while. We’re currently 16th. If you play boring football then there has to be success at the end of it. Although 10th was a big improvement on the previous season when we stayed up on the last day, it was basically only a mid table finish which didn’t appease anybody. if Unsworth has us in the top two or three next season playing like this he might win people over, but if not he’s no chance. So if we are playing swashbuckling city style football th is ok next season? Seems odd to nail top 3 down as a requirement if we are playing a more boring style*. Plays off / promotion push will be exciting whatever the style no? *we won't. The adults have understood his recent comments re playing more as we go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, League one forever said: He hasn’t tried ugly football against the better sides- it was only until Notts county at home that this attritional football started. (We drew that game) Before that he was doing every formation under the sun with a 3 and 5 in it. Granted we’ve have had a run against some of weaker sides, but does that not count. . ?? I’m not advocating for ugly football, but he isn’t good enough to do anything else- his record and tactics prior to new year proves that in my view. The board aren’t going to sack him for winning ugly, and nor should they. The question now is- will fans ‘put up’ with winning ugly- after one loss in eight it would appear not. It’s gone from He needs to win games. (Which he has) To Wining ugly is shit - he needs to win playing attractive football. It’s very harsh. All about opinions but I don't think three just over three months of evidence offers conclusive proof. It is certainly evidence and it means that he is on the back foot and has it to disprove. I was looking at managerial stats earlier and the PL/EFL being at a club for a few days over two years gets a manager in the top 20 longest serving list. That's insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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