Gaz_Oafc Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Any players coming in now have to be better than what we have, which in some positions won't be hard to achieve. A substitute left back when we can only name 5 subs is an absolute waste of time and money. If Kitching needs covering for a suspension then I'd rather put Dickenson at wing back. If it's an injury then look to bring someone in by all means. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Dave_Og said: But it's going to be very difficult to sign four starting players at this time of the season. If we do then they'll be on good money with decent contract lengths and if it doesn't work out this season then we'll be looking for another new manager who'll be wanting his own players I think this is where I am. At this stage, with 1/3 of the season gone, I think it's worth giving the job to ST to the end of the season with a play-off position as his target. If he doesn't achieve that, then we recruit a new manager over the summer with a budget to bring in players as needed. I completely get L1F's point about needing 4 better players. At the same time, it's a shame that all fans (me included) think the necessary remedy these days lies in the transfer/loan market. Every club, whatever its status, seems think that's the quick and easier way to go, rather than coaching players to play better, more consistently (yes our performances have been poor overall but we've seen potential in certain passages of play). ST is popular with the squad, it's said, and is respected as a coach. See what he can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 People are missing the point here. Of course we can cover positions, but in certain places, it’s players playing out of position or in unfamiliar roles. We have enough in the squad to Bob along and get through games. But we’ve gone from second favourites to mid table plodders in two months. If we don’t make the changes that ST has alluded to, we are doing nothing this year. The club have got themselves in a bit of mess with the squad, and they need to help the manager- which I’m certain they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Down Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) On 10/6/2023 at 9:48 PM, Summerdeep said: ^ 'Luck' is a factor that can be at least as important as coaching abilty and management skills in some situations. If you go all the way back to Frizzell, he almost didn't become our manager, and where would we have gone from there? Two of his first three home games early in 1970 were against Bradford PA and Lincoln. Bradford were rock bottom in Div 4 and hadn't won an away game for three years, but we struggled to create more than a few half-chances against them and they had two goals disallowed for offside, and we all know how marginal many of those decisions can be (final result 0-0). In the Lincoln game we only scraped a point with an equaliser in the third or fourth minute of injury time. If we'd lost those games I don't think Frizzell woud've lasted much longer as caretaker manager. In any event, the man the club wanted as manager was Frank Lord, who was coaching in South Africa at the time. The board had already agreed terms with him and offered him the job, but for some reason he didn't show up to sign his contract. If Lord had got onto the plane that day in Cape Town, it would have been all over for Frizzell. I don't think we missed out on much with Lord - I remember him briefly turning up as caretaker manager of Preston in the 1972-73 season, but other than that he seems to have made no impact on the managerial scene. Frizzell capitalized on the situation by guiding the side to their first away win in six months (2-0 at Exeter), and seven days later to a 1-0 win against league leaders and champions-elect Chesterfield, which was enough to persuade the board to offer him the job after the rebuff from Lord. I much enjoy your recollections of these times, They were formative for me as, I suspect, they were for you. Notwithstanding Jimmy Frizzell's huge stroke of luck in Frank Lord rejecting our blandishments, I do, though, think you underplay somewhat his own role in determining his , and subsequently Latics' fate, for the next twenty five years or so. It isn't fanciful to suggest that all our success stemmed from decisions taken in the period from January 1970 to the end of the season. I think Jimmy's sense of motivation came from knowing he had nothing to lose and that he could act bravely. Certainly there is evidence that he was contemplating emigration to South Africa himself and he would have certainly known that he was far from first choice. He certainly changed the mood about the place. His programme notes were upbeat and in firm contrast to the careworn and tired reflections of Jack Rowley, who tended to criticise the aptitudes of his players. He may have had a point but it is worth noting that in Wood, Whittle, Mc Neill, Bowie, Shaw and Bebbington, he had six players on the books who would be stalwarts of the 1970-1 promotion side. Frizzell managed quickly to get Keith Bebbington off the transfer list and playing to somewhere near his full ability and then made a huge call in dropping Ray Wilson, 1966 World Cup winner, and replacing him with a failed midfield player, also currently available for transfer, at left back in the shape of Maurice Whittle. With building blocks in place , results started to improve and in February Notts County were beaten 5-0 on the snow and he was really on his way. whilst there were up and downs, the board had seen enough to back the purchase by a caretaker manager of Jim Fryatt. He was transformational and remains the single most significant and far reaching transfer acquisition in our history. Like Frizzell, he was a complete game changer and transformed mood and expectation of the whole club. Frizzell also signed Tommy Bryceland during these months from what must have been a youthful personal contact and, although he arrived crocked and unable to play, his influence was vast in 1970-1. He was also able to get a tune out of three players Reg Blore, Alan Lawson and Johnny Colquhoun, who became stalwarts for him and then whom he culled at the end of the season in another ruthless show of strength. None played league football again. In short he was a great judge of a player, brilliant at backing his hunches and making players better and ruthless when he had to be. Let's hope we can get another like him Edited October 10, 2023 by Dickie Down mistake 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: I think this is where I am. At this stage, with 1/3 of the season gone, I think it's worth giving the job to ST to the end of the season with a play-off position as his target. If he doesn't achieve that, then we recruit a new manager over the summer with a budget to bring in players as needed. There’s no way he taking the job without the board saying he can bring a few in. He’s even telling us that in interviews. Otherwise, it’s saying to him- we want top 7 with an inferior squad for that target. Or in other words setting him up to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, League one forever said: There’s no way he taking the job without the board saying he can bring a few in. He’s even telling us that in interviews. Otherwise, it’s saying to him- we want top 7 with an inferior squad for that target. Or in other words setting him up to fail. He might. He's 58 and has never managed - the chances of being offered a first team manager job again are not high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Dave_Og said: He might. He's 58 and has never managed - the chances of being offered a first team manager job again are not high Yeah, that’s true to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzell54 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 The problem is an awful lot of money has been blown on DU and his merry men, with too many on long-term contracts. We will need someone who can make a stab at turning some of these 'sows ears' into silk purses. I see little new money for the next manager. We are in a holding position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Not sure why you'd give the job to the Head of Recruitment, given the pig's ear we've made of recruitment this season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, oafcmetty said: Not sure why you'd give the job to the Head of Recruitment, given the pig's ear we've made of recruitment this season. We don't know the ins and outs of that to be fair, I get the impression Thompson and Unsworth were on different pages with regards to who to bring in and we just don't know enough about who had the final say, he shouldn't be immune from criticism in that regard but it's probably more complicated than it appears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 28 minutes ago, oafcmetty said: Not sure why you'd give the job to the Head of Recruitment, given the pig's ear we've made of recruitment this season. When will people understand that as Head of Recruitment your job is to go find players that the manager wants. Unsy wanted very limited footballers who could run. ST’s job is to provide the players to that criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, LightDN123 said: When will people understand that as Head of Recruitment your job is to go find players that the manager wants. Unsy wanted very limited footballers who could run. ST’s job is to provide the players to that criteria. In theory - that’s correct. But the pod boys repeatedly said it was by committee with Unsworth having the final say- there’s lots of grey area in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy55555 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, LightDN123 said: When will people understand that as Head of Recruitment your job is to go find players that the manager wants. Unsy wanted very limited footballers who could run. ST’s job is to provide the players to that criteria. So ST was identifying players saying personally Dave i think he's crap but you go for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 37 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: it's probably more complicated than it appears. Most things are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 hours ago, League one forever said: He’s the only fit left sided attacking player, or are you playing him in two positions now? I'd solve that little conundrum by not playing 442. But lets not go down that path again! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 31 minutes ago, LightDN123 said: When will people understand that as Head of Recruitment your job is to go find players that the manager wants. Unsy wanted very limited footballers who could run. ST’s job is to provide the players to that criteria. Doesn't ST state in the interview they know what's needed. Adding players with 'legs' and take care of the ball. Sounds pretty much the same to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 27 minutes ago, dannyboy55555 said: So ST was identifying players saying personally Dave i think he's crap but you go for it... He would have been finding players to fit the managers criteria, yes. I’m not saying it’s as black and white as you are making it out to be, I’m also not saying ST has no blame. But what I am saying is it’s not ST’s fault that the players are shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) ld be goin 433 for this (4123) Norman Sutton Raglan Hobson Ker ching Sheron Lundstrum Dickenson Reid Norwood (C) Willoughby Green totally 'rested' Freeman on bench and l'd be looking for a Footballer to play CDM harder than anything l'd done for a fuckin longgggg time Edited October 10, 2023 by Monty Burns more words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyyou Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 38 minutes ago, League one forever said: In theory - that’s correct. But the pod boys repeatedly said it was by committee with Unsworth having the final say- there’s lots of grey area in that. The pod boys also repeatedly say that they are aware of major differences between what DU and ST felt was needed and on the final choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 lm really sorry could that be moved to the correct place!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Not sure why people think giving ST and Redders the job would be the cheap option. I doubt those 2 will be on peanuts and certainly more than say Williamson at Gateshead or Parkinson at Alty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, PeteG said: Not sure why people think giving ST and Redders the job would be the cheap option. I doubt those 2 will be on peanuts and certainly more than say Williamson at Gateshead or Parkinson at Alty. well two wages is certainly cheaper than three as a start point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Just now, Monty Burns said: well two wages is certainly cheaper than three as a start point I think he'd want more as first team manager, plus a probable upgrade for Muzza too. I don't think the budget will really come into it, it's the most important position to recruit for within a football club and I just don't think the Rothwells will think, aye, let's have him he will save us £20k a year. Just an opinion though of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 lm not disagreein with the sentiment l just cudnt help it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) The sooner people stop thinking the likes of Sheron, Sutton (at RB) and Green can contribute to a promotion chasing side the better. i just hope Thompson feel the same. Edited October 10, 2023 by sjk2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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