MATCH: Kidderminster Harriers (A) 26/09/23

[yarddog73]

2 hours ago, sjk2008 said:

Easier for all to just give Hobson MotM before every single kick off. The guy is a monster of a centre back.

Do you remember when I used to give Unsworth shit and remind people our best right sided centrehalf was actually sat on the bench, only to be reminded that Unsworth knows best bloke should have been sacked when he played him as a rightback throughout pre season when all his attributes point to him being a top, top centrehalf at this level, I feel similarly for Sutton as well and I think Hobson/Sutton has the makings of a great partnership if one of them can adapt their game to play left of the two, not crabbing Hogan by the way, he's lifted his game over the past few weeks after a shaky start and fully deserves his place in the team based on performances alone.

Edited September 27, 2023 by yarddog73

[LightDN123]

5 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Do you remember when I used to give Unsworth shit and remind people our best right sided centrehalf was actually sat on the bench, only to be reminded that Unsworth knows best bloke should have been sacked when he played him as a rightback throughout pre season when all his attributes point to him being a top, top centrehalf at this level, I feel similarly for Sutton as well and I think Hobson/Sutton has the makings of a great partnership if one of them can adapt their game to play left of the two, not crabbing Hogan by the way, he's lifted his game over the past few weeks after a shaky start and fully deserves his place in the team based on performances alone.

Hogan does seem to be playing with a bit more passion and his performances have been good recently. 
 

We need to get Raglan in at some point, he’s a great player at this level. 

[yarddog73]

1 minute ago, LightDN123 said:

Hogan does seem to be playing with a bit more passion and his performances have been good recently. 
 

We need to get Raglan in at some point, he’s a great player at this level. 

Where does he fit in though?, I agree with regards to his ability but the other two just bring that bit more at the minute and he is in direct competition with Hobson who for me is first name on the team sheet at the minute, Raglan struggles on the left side as he is so reluctant to go left and nearly always cuts in under pressure, I'm surprised he hasn't been used at right back as he has played there earlier in his career.

[LightDN123]

3 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Where does he fit in though?, I agree with regards to his ability but the other two just bring that bit more at the minute and he is in direct competition with Hobson who for me is first name on the team sheet at the minute, Raglan struggles on the left side as he is so reluctant to go left and nearly always cuts in under pressure, I'm surprised he hasn't been used at right back as he has played there earlier in his career.

He doesn’t currently, he will have to wait for a suspension / injury and claim his position. 
 

Don’t get me started on the right back gate. 

[sjk2008]

Tbf we have the players for a 352 - as proven last night when switching to it won us the game.

 

The problem was we didn’t have a manager who knew what to do.

[LightDN123]

15 minutes ago, sjk2008 said:

Tbf we have the players for a 352 - as proven last night when switching to it won us the game.

 

The problem was we didn’t have a manager who knew what to do.

Disagree, Green is never a RWB. We don’t have the players for it at all. 
 

The reason we got back into it last night was the extra body in midfield allowed us to get back in control as SaS was getting overrun. Park the wing back system until we have a competent RWB. 

[yarddog73]

31 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

Disagree, Green is never a RWB. We don’t have the players for it at all. 
 

The reason we got back into it last night was the extra body in midfield allowed us to get back in control as SaS was getting overrun. Park the wing back system until we have a competent RWB. 

Correct, why would anyone want to move our most productive player from the role he is in to one he would struggle to play, come on we've got rid of Unsworth. 

[nzlatic]

37 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

Disagree, Green is never a RWB. We don’t have the players for it at all. 
 

The reason we got back into it last night was the extra body in midfield allowed us to get back in control as SaS was getting overrun. Park the wing back system until we have a competent RWB. 

Not everything is as rigid as how you make it. For example, Green could play RW with a back 3 behind him if one of the central 3 covers him defensively. So it could float between a 352, 343, 3412 something like that.  I agree that asking him to play in a traditional wing back role is not utilising him the best, but you could set up the side to make the most of him. Another reason for the improvement was Dickenson playing centrally and advanced so there was a connection between midfield, strikers and wingbacks.

 

I'd argue that RWB is the only issue with our squad when it comes to playing a back 3. 4 at the back creates slightly more issues.

 

But flexibility is key to any system - last night showed how we could move from 4 to 3 because Sutton was the right back who fitted naturally into the centre back role.

[Pidge]

5 hours ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

Think I've found the answer for his drop in form

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61272506

 

 

 

They say, “never put anything smaller then your elbow in your ear”

[sjk2008]

35 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Not everything is as rigid as how you make it. For example, Green could play RW with a back 3 behind him if one of the central 3 covers him defensively. So it could float between a 352, 343, 3412 something like that.  I agree that asking him to play in a traditional wing back role is not utilising him the best, but you could set up the side to make the most of him. Another reason for the improvement was Dickenson playing centrally and advanced so there was a connection between midfield, strikers and wingbacks.

 

I'd argue that RWB is the only issue with our squad when it comes to playing a back 3. 4 at the back creates slightly more issues.

 

But flexibility is key to any system - last night showed how we could move from 4 to 3 because Sutton was the right back who fitted naturally into the centre back role.

Exactly. I don’t know why people are struggling to grasp this. We should be able to play 352 (not 532) against the fodder in this league.

 

Weve got Freeman (if he’s not dead) when it needs to be more pragmatic. 

[LightDN123]

48 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Not everything is as rigid as how you make it. For example, Green could play RW with a back 3 behind him if one of the central 3 covers him defensively. So it could float between a 352, 343, 3412 something like that.  I agree that asking him to play in a traditional wing back role is not utilising him the best, but you could set up the side to make the most of him. Another reason for the improvement was Dickenson playing centrally and advanced so there was a connection between midfield, strikers and wingbacks.

 

I'd argue that RWB is the only issue with our squad when it comes to playing a back 3. 4 at the back creates slightly more issues.

 

But flexibility is key to any system - last night showed how we could move from 4 to 3 because Sutton was the right back who fitted naturally into the centre back role.

I appreciate your argument and I agree that the wing back system can be effective when used correctly. But to play the system effectively the two wing backs have to be of such a quality as they are central to the system working. 
 

Look at the Southend game. Sutton was played RWB and Southend knew he doesn’t have the quality to play that position effectively. All they have to do then is double up on Kitching and we have no width and have to resort to hitting it long. Which results in us getting pinned back all game. 
 

Another issue with the wing back system is you need a player that links it all up, Dickinson did this yesterday evening but in my opinion he’s not the correct type/quality player to play that role for us consistently. 
 

So we don’t have a RWB and we don’t have the CAM we need to play the system. Arguably two of the most important positions for it to be effective. 
 

I also think as a fan base we enjoy watching wingers, with Green on one side and Dickinson on the other we have two very capable wingers for this level. 
 

We have also seen what happens when you over complicate the system. We simply don’t need to. For me we setup as a 442 and we revert to a 433 in games we need and extra body in midfield. 
 

We can resort to wing backs as a last option like last night. 

[League one forever]

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

Not everything is as rigid as how you make it. For example, Green could play RW with a back 3 behind him if one of the central 3 covers him defensively. So it could float between a 352, 343, 3412 something like that.  I agree that asking him to play in a traditional wing back role is not utilising him the best, but you could set up the side to make the most of him. Another reason for the improvement was Dickenson playing centrally and advanced so there was a connection between midfield, strikers and wingbacks.

 

I'd argue that RWB is the only issue with our squad when it comes to playing a back 3. 4 at the back creates slightly more issues.

 

But flexibility is key to any system - last night showed how we could move from 4 to 3 because Sutton was the right back who fitted naturally into the centre back role.

What about 442?

[nzlatic]

1 minute ago, LightDN123 said:

I appreciate your argument and I agree that the wing back system can be effective when used correctly. But to play the system effectively the two wing backs have to be of such a quality as they are central to the system working. 
 

Look at the Southend game. Sutton was played RWB and Southend knew he doesn’t have the quality to play that position effectively. All they have to do then is double up on Kitching and we have no width and have to resort to hitting it long. Which results in us getting pinned back all game. 
 

Another issue with the wing back system is you need a player that links it all up, Dickinson did this yesterday evening but in my opinion he’s not the correct type/quality player to play that role for us consistently. 
 

So we don’t have a RWB and we don’t have the CAM we need to play the system. Arguably two of the most important positions for it to be effective. 
 

I also think as a fan base we enjoy watching wingers, with Green on one side and Dickinson on the other we have two very capable wingers for this level. 
 

We have also seen what happens when you over complicate the system. We simply don’t need to. For me we setup as a 442 and we revert to a 433 in games we need and extra body in midfield. 
 

We can resort to wing backs as a last option like last night. 

It's definitely not cut and dried, there are pros and cons to most systems. The key of course is having a coach who can coach them!

 

Interesting point on the fan base enjoying wingers. I do wonder sometimes if that relates back to our last succesful team? If we witnessed a future promotion under a different system would we be collectively less bothered about the classic 442?

[Longlostfan]

19 hours ago, yarddog73 said:

Shelton needs dropping from the squad and replaced, he's a fucking awful footballer

that the same Shelton who cleared off the line at 1-1?

[yarddog73]

8 minutes ago, Longlostfan said:

that the same Shelton who cleared off the line at 1-1?

Are you really using that as an argument for selecting him?, anyone can see he's not up to the job and needs replacing, yes he's got in the way of one on the line it's hardly an endorsement of any football ability. 

[Longlostfan]

19 hours ago, Wardie said:

I'm taking that fantastic win tonight as three points gained on Dale and Hartlepool.

that's a reasonable point of view Wardie but not quite how I see it.

I see three thresholds

 

- making the playoffs in pos 3-7. Today we are two points off that. On our mini run we are making ground on three of them- easily achievable. The names in those slots will change over the season.

 

-2/3rd which gives an advantage in the playoffs. Today we are 10 points off that. Caught up 2pts on our 3 win run. Achievable.

 

automatic- 15pts adrift of Chesterfield who have only lost 1 and drawn 1. Looks ambitious. They might fold/ wobble at some point but if they carry on at that rate they get 118/119 points. If we won every game from now we end on 118. So yes I want them to lose or draw a few, starting asap.

[longtimeblue]

Not sure if they were as rampaging last season but I think Chesterfield were top at the same stage 12 months ago before having a wobble and almost falling out altogether. Bound to have a wobble at some point. Hopefully a big one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Longlostfan]

1 minute ago, yarddog73 said:

yes he's got in the way of one on the line it's hardly an endorsement of any football ability. 

I agree we need better. Just saying he made an important contribution.

I think Thommo might get more out of him while we wait for the upgrade

 

 

[Longlostfan]

you are right longtime

from the BBC 24th Sept last year.

all of 1 point better at 10 games this year than last

looking forward to the wobble

 

 

As It Stood

		Team	P	GD	Pts
1		Chesterfield	10	10	24
2		Wrexham	10	21	23
3		Notts County	10	14	21

[mcfluff1985]

5 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

apologies. It was @sjk2008 who was the mild mannered janitor. Amazingly baggy aged hot take.

 

Someone rated him a 4/10 I think. Went in even harder than @sjk2008

[Lee Sinnott]

5 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

apologies. It was @sjk2008 who was the mild mannered janitor. Amazingly baggy aged hot take.

 

He's not wrong though. A couple of good performances against Vauxhall Conference relegation fodder don't disprove his view. He's like a speedboat with no driver...

[Londonboy]

13 hours ago, Lee Sinnott said:

He's not wrong though. A couple of good performances against Vauxhall Conference relegation fodder don't disprove his view. He's like a speedboat with no driver...

Or even the Vanarama National League!!

Agree though that York, Oxford City and Kidderminster are currently very poor bottom 6 sides, and after Wealdstone on Sat we have 2 more games against relegation candidates Maidenhead and Dagenham at home.

Thomo couldn't have wished for an easier run of 6 games...4 being at home, to kick his tenure off. 

November and Decembers away games against the play off contenders will be a better indication of whether he's up to the job, and I'm happy to hold fire in appointing until then if necessary.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Londonboy

[Boyyou]

1 hour ago, Longlostfan said:

you are right longtime

from the BBC 24th Sept last year.

all of 1 point better at 10 games this year than last

looking forward to the wobble

 

 

As It Stood

		Team	P	GD	Pts
1		Chesterfield	10	10	24
2		Wrexham	10	21	23
3		Notts County	10	14	21

They went seven games without a win, including our smash and grab at their place, and struggled for goals. Think their squad is stronger this time,  but we know this is a tough, unrelenting division and anyone can beat anyone.

[Lags]

Noticed one or two who called it as it was...a poor footballing performance last night,  got a few pelters.

We won yes,  but not down to our great display. Everyone will take the points. 

Some saying we'd have lost that under DU, that's something we don't know,  history repeated possibly yes.  Must do a lot better and that's the truth of it. 

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

2 hours ago, Lee Sinnott said:

He's not wrong though. A couple of good performances against Vauxhall Conference relegation fodder don't disprove his view. He's like a speedboat with no driver...

You struggle to give many players praise, don’t you mate.