Monty Burns Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 devoed. could tell straight away and the moon boot confirmed it. Thank You and Good Luck https://www.theoldhamtimes.co.uk/sport/24023070.stones-oldham-loan-spell-wigan-cut-short-injury/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 4 games, 3 goals and 3 assists. Shame he got injured but he was never coming back here so only realistically missing one game. Got us through the Christmas period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemel latic Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 A reminder that we used to have some pretty decent loan signings: Lang, Sturridge, McAlmont, Clarke all spring to mind from recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemel latic Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Iversen and Ripley of course. Lyden, Kean Bryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukers1 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 10 minutes ago, Hemel latic said: A reminder that we used to have some pretty decent loan signings: Lang, Sturridge, McAlmont, Clarke all spring to mind from recent years. Kilkenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 46 minutes ago, Hemel latic said: A reminder that we used to have some pretty decent loan signings: Lang, Sturridge, McAlmont, Clarke all spring to mind from recent years. When we beat Fulham four of the key players were loanees 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Thanks Josh for your efforts, hope you make a good recovery and good luck for the future. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 no pressure on this Walker chap, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchierich Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Tbh I wasn’t a fan of the very short term loan, good as he was, there was not much point in getting attached to him or the formation, we need consistency so much rather have players for at least the season That said, he did brilliantly and hopefully the injury will be a blip and he will go on to have a great career, his attitude was a breath of fresh air and hopefully some of our “can’t really be arsed” squad are getting the message 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, Ritchierich said: Tbh I wasn’t a fan of the very short term loan, good as he was, there was not much point in getting attached to him or the formation, we need consistency so much rather have players for at least the season That said, he did brilliantly and hopefully the injury will be a blip and he will go on to have a great career, his attitude was a breath of fresh air and hopefully some of our “can’t really be arsed” squad are getting the message With a complete lack of any youngsters of our own I'd be more than happy to see a few of these players coming in for 4 games and having 6 goal involvements before going back to their parent club if it means we keep pushing on up. We don't have a pot to piss in as it's all been pissed up the wall so if it means we have to play the loan roulette market than so be it, particularly if they come with the same attitude and desire as Stones. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 10 hours ago, yarddog73 said: With a complete lack of any youngsters of our own I'd be more than happy to see a few of these players coming in for 4 games and having 6 goal involvements before going back to their parent club if it means we keep pushing on up. We don't have a pot to piss in as it's all been pissed up the wall so if it means we have to play the loan roulette market than so be it, particularly if they come with the same attitude and desire as Stones. Two good points: In recent times there is only Will Sutton who has come through from the youth setup and stayed in the first team picture - Harry Vaughan could have done likewise but was moved on… Couto, Moore, Forshaw and others have still not shown enough and maybe never will. It was the desire and willingness to run the channels, and get a shot off, that impressed me from Stones. Hopefully we bring in one or two more that have the same attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, TheBigDog said: Two good points: In recent times there is only Will Sutton who has come through from the youth setup and stayed in the first team picture - Harry Vaughan could have done likewise but was moved on… Couto, Moore, Forshaw and others have still not shown enough and maybe never will. It was the desire and willingness to run the channels, and get a shot off, that impressed me from Stones. Hopefully we bring in one or two more that have the same attitude. It will never be acknowledged but in my mind the primary objective of the youth set up is to sell players before they get anywhere out first team and hope they sell ons work out occasionally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 7 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: It will never be acknowledged but in my mind the primary objective of the youth set up is to sell players before they get anywhere out first team and hope they sell ons work out occasionally Definitely one but not the primary objective I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: Definitely one but not the primary objective I think. I have it as the primary one because: We are way down the reasonably local pecking order for attracting talent There is no pathway from youth to senior level - it's clearly a big jump from playing on what are essentially park pitches even to our first team level Recent history of sales Recent history of youth progression to first team Standard of youth football (not that I'd really know!) c. half a dozen current youths have been training with first team this season and the only one who has figured (even on the bench) was Moore - who looked spectacularly out of his depth (obviously not making that a firm conclusion after half an hour) Best we can hope for I think is picking up a reject from other clubs' youth systems who may still be of youth age but are relatively close to our first team level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 49 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: It will never be acknowledged but in my mind the primary objective of the youth set up is to sell players before they get anywhere out first team and hope they sell ons work out occasionally Does that ever make us close to breaking even in terms of what it costs to run an academy? Obviously never guaranteed to sell a player a season, but to me it seems like we don’t produce enough talent to make it in the 1st team to make it worthwhile having a youth team. We have in the past, but in recent years all we’ve had is Couto, Vaughan and Sutton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 10 minutes ago, daniel said: Does that ever make us close to breaking even in terms of what it costs to run an academy? Obviously never guaranteed to sell a player a season, but to me it seems like we don’t produce enough talent to make it in the 1st team to make it worthwhile having a youth team. We have in the past, but in recent years all we’ve had is Couto, Vaughan and Sutton. No idea. We've sold the lad to Barnsley recently, one went to Liverpool last year/year before etc. There are of course intangible benefits such as community involvement etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 (edited) 14 minutes ago, daniel said: Does that ever make us close to breaking even in terms of what it costs to run an academy? Obviously never guaranteed to sell a player a season, but to me it seems like we don’t produce enough talent to make it in the 1st team to make it worthwhile having a youth team. We have in the past, but in recent years all we’ve had is Couto, Vaughan and Sutton. and Simms, plus we defo sold a couple. with no imput or investment from above, on shit pitches and we didnt even feed them or really even treat them like Footballers. lets see what happens now before we start throwing away our future, eh? Edited January 3 by Monty Burns sentence and a question mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 49 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: No idea. We've sold the lad to Barnsley recently, one went to Liverpool last year/year before etc. There are of course intangible benefits such as community involvement etc. Didn't we get money for the lad who went to Brighton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 minutes ago, LaticsPete said: Didn't we get money for the lad who went to Brighton? Yep, and others further back - Philliskirk, Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, daniel said: Does that ever make us close to breaking even in terms of what it costs to run an academy? Obviously never guaranteed to sell a player a season, but to me it seems like we don’t produce enough talent to make it in the 1st team to make it worthwhile having a youth team. We have in the past, but in recent years all we’ve had is Couto, Vaughan and Sutton. From what I've seen we have a couple of exciting youth prospects already training with the first team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Lad to Fulham Damon Park pulled in 150k plus add ons not too long ago which was one of the best fees we've received for a youngster so it is possible for an Academy to be self sufficient even if the pathway to the first team isn't what it was, I wouldn't imagine and I think it needs remembering that our Academies aim won't be to develop players for the rough, tough National League, one of it's aims must be to sell on for profit before a player has got anywhere near our first team, it's good all round and the likes of Park have been given a pathway that may not have existed if he'd been hoovered up at 8 years old by one of these industrial scale academies they have in the PL now particularly in the NW of England. It's great seeing one of our own kick on but the reality now is that it will become less and less likely. It's so tough to throw a kid straight in at this level and it takes character as it could ruin them. Sutton's make up for example is outstanding and he will go on to have a great career in his preferred position, he just won't be given that opportunity with us which is sad, our fans who are judging him as a rightback really are brain dead and he's done a far superior job in an unfamiliar position than some established solid pros in Hogan and Hobson and I think that needs remembering when he is being judged as a footballer for us. Ultimately he knows that this is a learning experience for him and he will become a better player because of it. As for your Moore's and Atherton's without knowing their character it's difficult to judge whether they could have an impact at our level as kids, there are some very good widemen in the National League, week in week out we see them cause us problems the likes of Kanu for instance and my feeling is that Moore and Atherton are a million miles away from him. I remember when Vaughan was shipped out to Radcliffe, that was an education for the lad, I went over and watched him a couple of times after being one of his biggest supporters on here and he was shown no mercy including being dunked in the biggest puddle on the pitch in the opening 5 minutes in one game but he wanted the football and could look after it, when Moore came on last week it looked like an hot potato to him and he lost all his confidence and composure and the same could happen to Atherton and for that reason Mellon won't risk them and will want players with a bit more substance. Walker looks like he has a bit more to him, direct, hungry and wants the opportunity so he could slot in, I've had good reports so I'm happy to see where it goes, it may work, it may not but ultimately that now sits with the lad as a permanent move on the back of a decent loan spell probably wouldn't be out of the question. I was encouraged by Mellon Hartlepool post match and he saw the same in Ward that I did in that he moved the team up the pitch and was brave on the ball, even Lundstrum is just playing safe now 90% of the time and this is still a massive problem for us, turning in and knocking it back to a defender is fucking awful to watch on repeat. Get some more of these Josh Stones types in for me, fringe L1 and L2 players with something to prove to their parent and loan clubs, I think it's the only Avenue for any real joy this season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 14 hours ago, yarddog73 said: With a complete lack of any youngsters of our own I'd be more than happy to see a few of these players coming in for 4 games and having 6 goal involvements before going back to their parent club if it means we keep pushing on up. We don't have a pot to piss in as it's all been pissed up the wall so if it means we have to play the loan roulette market than so be it, particularly if they come with the same attitude and desire as Stones. There's no budget a little over a year after a takeover? That's worrying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 hours ago, Dave_Og said: I have it as the primary one because: We are way down the reasonably local pecking order for attracting talent There is no pathway from youth to senior level - it's clearly a big jump from playing on what are essentially park pitches even to our first team level Recent history of sales Recent history of youth progression to first team Standard of youth football (not that I'd really know!) c. half a dozen current youths have been training with first team this season and the only one who has figured (even on the bench) was Moore - who looked spectacularly out of his depth (obviously not making that a firm conclusion after half an hour) Best we can hope for I think is picking up a reject from other clubs' youth systems who may still be of youth age but are relatively close to our first team level Don't disagree with a lot of this. However Rochdale seem to regularly unearth a few, and they currently have Nevett, a 17 year old centre half, who has played most games this year and is rumoured that Palace may sign him. Begs the question how a club run as badly and in the mess they are in, can get these lads on contracts, yet we seem unable to do so?? Joined them July 2023 on a 3 year deal, probably on peanuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 3 hours ago, daniel said: Does that ever make us close to breaking even in terms of what it costs to run an academy? Obviously never guaranteed to sell a player a season, but to me it seems like we don’t produce enough talent to make it in the 1st team to make it worthwhile having a youth team. We have in the past, but in recent years all we’ve had is Couto, Vaughan and Sutton. I think I listened to an interview with Pete Wild after he left the club where he said the academy is the only part of the football club that makes a profit. Its not ideally what you would want but if we have to sell players to keep the a academy going and meaning less of them make the grade and hoping for the odd James Tarkowski comes through then it's a far better scenario than having no academy at all. Edited January 3 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 53 minutes ago, deyres42 said: There's no budget a little over a year after a takeover? That's worrying... I told you it wasn't unlimited Rob, what was left has probably been spent on bringing in the best available manager, it beggars belief what was wasted on Unsworth and Co both bringing him in and ultimately getting rid and that's before you take in to account the poor transfer activity, there is little we can do about that now and hopefully the same mistakes and foolish decision making won't be repeated. I don't have the current board down as shit or bust merchants, my feeling is they provided a top 2 budget and are not prepared to throw good money after bad and when the budgets gone the budgets gone, despite you maybe thinking we shouldn't be concerned about the finances I'm happy we have owners looking at the bigger picture, not prepared to gamble the clubs future and are taking a pragmatic rather than emotional approach to business. I have a feeling with Joe recently added to the Board others may well be being brought in to offer financial support, John Wardle again being linked with us as he was when Joe came in under Corney many moons ago although he is knocking on 80 now I wouldn't dismiss it given his friendship with the Royles and Alan Hardy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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