Micky Mellon Sack Watch

[oafc1955]

9 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

this squad man for man was good enough to get into the play offs at least.

Were they though? You have only past performances to back that up and past performance is no guarantee of future success. That goes for the manager too!

[League one forever]

24 minutes ago, Londonboy said:

I think Mellon has won 3/16 at home since his appointment which in most circumstances would mean a manager loses his job.

 

Before his appointment under the 2 previous regime's we had 

P9. W3. D4. L2. Not great but circa 1.5 pts a game.

 

Maybe the reason we have been so crap at home isn't so much the players can't perform under the pressure, but the negative tactics applied by the manager?

 

He needs to show he can make 4 or 5 additions in the areas we need before August, which we can all see, manage the players we have better and get more out of them, and coach them to play a system that wins more games with positive and aggressive football.

 

Personally I'm not confident he can do this but he will be given the opportunity so

 

My feeling is- even with the new players we’ll carry on being inconsistent, that’s ok if the performances are good. If we start throwing in horror shows early doors I can’t see him lasting long. 

[oafcmetty]

8 hours ago, Sloshed Joe said:

You can see why people feel like this though, given the huge expectation to be one of the favourites to win the league, and all the attacking talent we were purring over before the season started.

That huge expectation was foolish though. We ended last season with DU fluking his way to a decent run of results, but at no stage did we look like real contenders, and that continued at the start of this season, even with a few decent (on paper) signings. The longer we don't play over the summer, the better we get on paper. But reality is a harsh mistress.

 

It's the same with any player who's out of the side for a while - the calls grow and grow to get them back in the side as they must be better than the crap currently playing. Conveniently forgetting that the likely reason they're out of the side in the first place is they were crap themselves previously.

 

People need to reset their expectations. We're in non-league. We're able to attract better talent than most others in non-league, but the players are never going to be world beaters. We're up against sides who've played together for longer than we have, who normally do one thing really well. We're still building that, and repairing the damage done by the AL years. It's going to take time - we're not going to win every match. It's foolish to judge MM based on what we've seen so far - most of the players aren't his, and he hasn't had a pre-season to properly bed in what he wants to do.

[League one forever]

4 minutes ago, oafcmetty said:

That huge expectation was foolish though. We ended last season with DU fluking his way to a decent run of results, but at no stage did we look like real contenders, and that continued at the start of this season, even with a few decent (on paper) signings. The longer we don't play over the summer, the better we get on paper. But reality is a harsh mistress.

 

It's the same with any player who's out of the side for a while - the calls grow and grow to get them back in the side as they must be better than the crap currently playing. Conveniently forgetting that the likely reason they're out of the side in the first place is they were crap themselves previously.

 

People need to reset their expectations. We're in non-league. We're able to attract better talent than most others in non-league, but the players are never going to be world beaters. We're up against sides who've played together for longer than we have, who normally do one thing really well. We're still building that, and repairing the damage done by the AL years. It's going to take time - we're not going to win every match. It's foolish to judge MM based on what we've seen so far - most of the players aren't his, and he hasn't had a pre-season to properly bed in what he wants to do.

Good post- very balanced. 

 

I don’t think expecting playoffs with our budget is unrealistic though. The standard to finish 7th isn’t great, Unsworth took us from bottom four to top half after 3 wins in 17. We’ve had two awful runs this season and can still mathematically get in the playoffs. 
 

As you say- reality is a harsh mistress. No manager gets time if they don’t get results or you see progress. 
 

He has 1 win in 11. If we start poorly next season, he’s rightly under massive pressure. 

[oafc1955]

7 minutes ago, oafcmetty said:

That huge expectation was foolish though. We ended last season with DU fluking his way to a decent run of results, but at no stage did we look like real contenders, and that continued at the start of this season, even with a few decent (on paper) signings. The longer we don't play over the summer, the better we get on paper. But reality is a harsh mistress.

 

It's the same with any player who's out of the side for a while - the calls grow and grow to get them back in the side as they must be better than the crap currently playing. Conveniently forgetting that the likely reason they're out of the side in the first place is they were crap themselves previously.

 

People need to reset their expectations. We're in non-league. We're able to attract better talent than most others in non-league, but the players are never going to be world beaters. We're up against sides who've played together for longer than we have, who normally do one thing really well. We're still building that, and repairing the damage done by the AL years. It's going to take time - we're not going to win every match. It's foolish to judge MM based on what we've seen so far - most of the players aren't his, and he hasn't had a pre-season to properly bed in what he wants to do.

He is 30+ games in now and has had 6 months on the training ground!
It's his complete lack of progress not only with the existing players but also with the additional players he has brought in that worries me.

 

It’s been said over & over that these players are more than good enough to secure a playoff place.

 

It hasn’t happened under two managers over two seasons. If it’s not the players then it must be the manager?

[deyres42]

This summer is going to have to be the best in living memory given how many are pinning their hopes on it...

[oafcmetty]

7 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

He is 30+ games in now and has had 6 months on the training ground!
It's his complete lack of progress not only with the existing players but also with the additional players he has brought in that worries me.

 

It’s been said over & over that these players are more than good enough to secure a playoff place.

 

It hasn’t happened under two managers over two seasons. If it’s not the players then it must be the manager?

Bit different when you have a match every week to prepare for though, isn't it? And the players he's brought in aren't from the end of season free transfer pool, they're the ones clubs were happy to let go part way through a season - either recently long term injured or deemed surplus to requirements - sticking plasters in other words. Judge him on the squad he builds after the summer activity.

[yarddog73]

Lot of excuses being made for Mellon on here, personally I think he's been piss poor and his inability to even come up with any sort of plan to turn our home form round is a major worry, he's been making excuses up for the squad for weeks and they've hidden behind them and that's despite them going away from home and putting quite a decent run together.

 

Recruitment has been piss poor but Mellons just compounded that and he's brought players in we could have managed without and ignored the wide areas he now claims we are short in, if we have two wide men yesterday instead of Hope and Dallas we probably win that game easily, I reckon Tollitt would have been able to do a job the last few weeks even if it was an option from the bench but Mellons so stuck in his narrow/compact/turgid ways and being too afraid to lose that he won't jeopardise not losing over going for a win and that's cost us.

 

In the couple of games the players have been able to express themselves we've actually played quite well which is infuriating given how close we are likely to fall short.

 

Relegation form at home was always going to come back and bite us on the arse and we still can't muster a win on our home patch when it really counts.

[GlossopLatic]

1 hour ago, oafc1955 said:

Were they though? You have only past performances to back that up and past performance is no guarantee of future success. That goes for the manager too!

 

They were capable of beating Kidderminster Fylde and Rochdale (all sides below us in the league) at home that would have seen us sat on 69 points in 6th spot currently they didn't do it and will now be sat watching the play offs from the sidelines rather than being in them. 

[mcfluff1985]

1 hour ago, yarddog73 said:

Lot of excuses being made for Mellon on here, personally I think he's been piss poor and his inability to even come up with any sort of plan to turn our home form round is a major worry, he's been making excuses up for the squad for weeks and they've hidden behind them and that's despite them going away from home and putting quite a decent run together.

 

Recruitment has been piss poor but Mellons just compounded that and he's brought players in we could have managed without and ignored the wide areas he now claims we are short in, if we have two wide men yesterday instead of Hope and Dallas we probably win that game easily, I reckon Tollitt would have been able to do a job the last few weeks even if it was an option from the bench but Mellons so stuck in his narrow/compact/turgid ways and being too afraid to lose that he won't jeopardise not losing over going for a win and that's cost us.

 

In the couple of games the players have been able to express themselves we've actually played quite well which is infuriating given how close we are likely to fall short.

 

Relegation form at home was always going to come back and bite us on the arse and we still can't muster a win on our home patch when it really counts.

As I said, and @oafcmetty pointed out, January recruitment is nothing like summer recruitment. Would you have wanted us to throw mounds of cash at players in January, rather than wait till summer when the right players may be cheap or free?

[deyres42]

2 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

As I said, and @oafcmetty pointed out, January recruitment is nothing like summer recruitment. Would you have wanted us to throw mounds of cash at players in January, rather than wait till summer when the right players may be cheap or free?

The excuses are starting to stack up...

[LaticsEddie]

On 4/6/2024 at 1:43 PM, Londonboy said:

You can try and dress it up as much as you want but the facts remain.

As you say he came in and we were 3 points off the playoffs.

We've won 1 in 10 and are now 9th 4 points adrift as it stands and likely to be further behind come 5pm.

Sorry he's failed this season in my eyes big time.

By the same logic you can say he saved us from a relegation battle, we were only 6 points off the drop zone when he came in. His PPG would have us in the playoffs now if he had the whole season.

 

Its not dressing it up. Its accepting the fact that in hindsight there was a mountain to climb post Unsworth, it looked like it was achievable and we've hit a horrendous patch of form thanks. It's progress, slow and below expectations but certainly not a failure.

[Sloshed Joe]

I understand all the arguments for reality v expectations. The reality is that we are not that far away from a team that could achieve the playoffs. Turn a couple of the numerous draws into scruffy wins and we’d be in the top 7. And finishing in the play-offs is what the majority of us expected.

But it’s also true that our home record this season is abysmal. 6 wins at home in the National League. There are only two teams in the division who have won less home games. Even with the culture shock of our first non league season and the transition from AL to Frank, we managed to win 11 home games in 2022/23. I’m not expecting us to take the division by storm, but anything resembling a respectable home record would see us where we wanted to be this season.

 

Credit to Mellon for the good run away run this season, it’s a shame I can only make games at BP. 

 

[the_mighty_bosh]

1 hour ago, Sloshed Joe said:

I understand all the arguments for reality v expectations. The reality is that we are not that far away from a team that could achieve the playoffs. Turn a couple of the numerous draws into scruffy wins and we’d be in the top 7. And finishing in the play-offs is what the majority of us expected.

But it’s also true that our home record this season is abysmal. 6 wins at home in the National League. There are only two teams in the division who have won less home games. Even with the culture shock of our first non league season and the transition from AL to Frank, we managed to win 11 home games in 2022/23. I’m not expecting us to take the division by storm, but anything resembling a respectable home record would see us where we wanted to be this season.

 

Credit to Mellon for the good run away run this season, it’s a shame I can only make games at BP. 

 

 

I've only just checked our home record this season.  Boreham Wood (our last home win back in February) have a better home record than us and they're in the relegation zone.

 

No wonder we're not getting in the playoffs with that home record.  

[Londonboy]

3 hours ago, the_mighty_bosh said:

 

I've only just checked our home record this season.  Boreham Wood (our last home win back in February) have a better home record than us and they're in the relegation zone.

 

No wonder we're not getting in the playoffs with that home record.  

It's abysmal Bosh and has got embarrassingly worse under Mellon unfortunately.

3 wins in 16 games and this includes trophy games against tin pot teams.

Some on here think this is progress....not sure what drugs they are on but I'll have some please!

He picks the team, he dictates the tactics so the book stops with him.

It's just not good enough.

[League one forever]

3 minutes ago, Londonboy said:

It's abysmal Bosh and has got embarrassingly worse under Mellon unfortunately.

3 wins in 16 games and this includes trophy games against tin pot teams.

Some on here think this is progress....not sure what drugs they are on but I'll have some please!

He picks the team, he dictates the tactics so the book stops with him.

It's just not good enough.

 

I agree with you- no manager can ask for time if results aren’t good enough against the agreed expectation. However, I still think he gets the summer and then we look at it again after ten games. 
 

Are you saying- sack him now? 

[mick26]

10 minutes ago, Londonboy said:

It's abysmal Bosh and has got embarrassingly worse under Mellon unfortunately.

3 wins in 16 games and this includes trophy games against tin pot teams.

Some on here think this is progress....not sure what drugs they are on but I'll have some please!

He picks the team, he dictates the tactics so the book stops with him.

It's just not good enough.

Can't argue with that but mitigating circumstances around the squad and previous experience should allow the summer to recruit and then see what next season brings. Needs a strong start though or he's under massive pressure.

[Littlemoor Lad]

Another that fails to deliver shocker

[spanishfly]

If Latics fail to make the play-offs, with the money that's been thrown at it, it's failure, full stop. Where the blame lies I don't know because I never saw us under Unsworth. If we were worse than some of the stuff I`ve witnessed, then Unsworth must have been truly shocking. 

 

In the old days, in non league, managers were rated largely by their ability to get the best out of what they had, simply because there wasn't the silly sums of money available that there seems to be now to spend on players. Is Mellon getting the best out of what he has? Are they capable of better?

 

It's always a difficult one regarding when to lose faith and depart with a manager. A lot are saying give him the summer and 10 games etc. Trouble is if you do that then the next manager can continue to play the blame game "I inherited Mellon's shit" and the craziness continues.

 

So, if you are going to give Mellon the summer, give him the whole of next season to mould HIS team too; not just 10 games.

 

If not, then get rid at the end of the season and allow the new bloke to recruit and mould his own.

 

I like Mellon and I would choose the former.

[oafc1955]

He certainly needs to hit the ground running next season but it will be difficult with yet another swathe of wholesale changes and another bedding in/time to gelperiod.

 

If he is the manager for the 1st game then barring total disaster we should be giving him the full season…..there is absolutely no point allowing him to make ‘his’ signings if we then sack him at Christmas because we are 10th!!

 

Think Darren & the board need to sit down with MM and reassess as to where we are and where we need to be. On the playing side we have completely wasted 2 seasons and MM has to take some of blame for that.

 

We cannot afford another fruitless season and fans will not put up with anymore of this ‘ale house’ football where BP performances (where it matters most to the average fan) have been absolutely dreadful.

 

The Board have a big decision to make and the season ticket take up may well be an important indicator!

[JoeP]

13 minutes ago, spanishfly said:

 

It's always a difficult one regarding when to lose faith and depart with a manager. A lot are saying give him the summer and 10 games etc. Trouble is if you do that then the next manager can continue to play the blame game "I inherited Mellon's shit" and the craziness continues.

 

The problem is it's still largely "Unsworth's shit" until the end of next season, unless we can find some gullible clubs to take a few of them off our hands (which is at the point they turn into world-beaters, probably..).

 

Mellon needs more time to sort us out.  If not, it'll just be a different manager with the same players and probably the same outcome.  It'll be more of the same next season I fear, whoever the manager is.  Then a summer of rebuilding.  Then a season to gel, with the prospect of getting up the season after.

 

Could take a while, this...

[League one forever]

2 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

The problem is it's still largely "Unsworth's shit" until the end of next season, unless we can find some gullible clubs to take a few of them off our hands (which is at the point they turn into world-beaters, probably..).

 

Mellon needs more time to sort us out.  If not, it'll just be a different manager with the same players and probably the same outcome.  It'll be more of the same next season I fear, whoever the manager is.  Then a summer of rebuilding.  Then a season to gel, with the prospect of getting up the season after.

 

Could take a while, this...

Yeah, it’s a good point. Take out whether Mellon should stay or go.

The next guy is left with same problems. 
 

I suppose it comes down to, do we believe that with a summer to mould things Mellon will kick us on. . . ? 
 

 

[oafc1955]

17 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Yeah, it’s a good point. Take out whether Mellon should stay or go.

The next guy is left with same problems. 
 

I suppose it comes down to, do we believe that with a summer to mould things Mellon will kick us on. . . ? 
 

 

That’s for the board to decide. If we could get Pete Wild I would get shut right now.

If we’d pushed the boat out for him instead of Unsworth I think we’d be in a much better place right now.

We’d have the perfect set up but that’s not happening. 

We may as well stick with Mellon for now, who else is available who we could realistically attract?

[Londonboy]

1 hour ago, League one forever said:

 

I agree with you- no manager can ask for time if results aren’t good enough against the agreed expectation. However, I still think he gets the summer and then we look at it again after ten games. 
 

Are you saying- sack him now? 

I've been supporting Latics for close on 50 years now and I know changing the manager every 12 months is not the answer. The 2 most successful managers in my era were Frizzel and Big Joe and both were given the time to make their mark and they did.

However what's most important is we have the right manager in place to give time...and resources too, and I'm not convinced yet this is Mellon even with his track record. 

Are his tactics outdated in the modern game? Is he prepared to take more risks? 

His previous success' were a bit turgid by all accounts, and as can be seen in recent seasons, the teams that succeed like Stockport, Wrexham, Notts County, Chesterfield all score goals by the hateful with an attractive, pacey brand of football, and with a nice mixture of experience and youth. It's questionable I think if this is something Mellon can deliver.

We missed out on Williamson which was a big mistake, and opted for Mellon so he deserves the chance I guess to put things right next season, however I have a horrible feeling that it may be a similar story and we are saying the same things again next April

Edited April 8 by Londonboy

[BP1960]

1 hour ago, oafc1955 said:

He certainly needs to hit the ground running next season but it will be difficult with yet another swathe of wholesale changes and another bedding in/time to gelperiod.

 

If he is the manager for the 1st game then barring total disaster we should be giving him the full season…..there is absolutely no point allowing him to make ‘his’ signings if we then sack him at Christmas because we are 10th!!

 

Think Darren & the board need to sit down with MM and reassess as to where we are and where we need to be. On the playing side we have completely wasted 2 seasons and MM has to take some of blame for that.

 

We cannot afford another fruitless season and fans will not put up with anymore of this ‘ale house’ football where BP performances (where it matters most to the average fan) have been absolutely dreadful.

 

The Board have a big decision to make and the season ticket take up may well be an important indicator!

 

Surely Mellon realises if he doesn't bring in better quality players and a more exciting brand of football he will be out of a job?

That goes for his assistant too.