Fans Forum

[Ackey]

18 hours ago, BP1960 said:

I was in Boots at Rochdale the other day and it was all self service tills, not one human check out, nor any security staff, and they wonder why shoplifting is at an an all time high.

They don't wonder why, actually. You may, and some of the papers like to write about it.

 

But in reality they use computers (the electric kind, not the old human ones from the 50s) and a data model to analyse the cost-benefit of their losses. They worked out that it's more profitable to accept a level of loss to theft than pay people to stand in the doorway and do pretty much nothing whilst that theft occurs. The continue to analyse that cost-benefit over time and adjust their behaviour according to the information they can deduce from the data. 

 

19 hours ago, BP1960 said:

Stats can tell you only so much, they are a tool that can be used as indicators of past history, however, as far as footballers are concerned they can't tell you of the future potential of lower level players, which is what I look for.

You use experience (based on data) to make the judgement call you're describing. Your brain takes the billions of learned experiences you have and makes a calculation on which you guess about future potential. You're right how many times? 50%? 75% 10% I don't know - maybe you do.

 

Humans are simply better at that than data-driven robots right now. We won't be forever, and indeed a blended human-robot model is already better than either on its own.

 

You know how I know that? Because there are dozens of billion-dollar companies doing it in sport (football, baseball, American football), media (Disney, Meta, Google), business (Amazon, Shell, BP)... the list is endless. You think those companies, which run the world, don't have hundreds of millions of dollars invested in data-driven decision making? You think they are still just a bunch of old men sat around a boardroom table smoking and shouting "BUY BUY BUY" in to a phone?

 

This very website - little old OWTB and our 100-150 Oldham fans - is advertised on entirely based on data. Our Ad partners know more about all of us than our wives, husbands or children ever, ever will!

 

I'm ranting, I don't really know why. I suppose I'm just passionate about looking forward not backwards.

[BP1960]

3 minutes ago, Ackey said:

They don't wonder why, actually. You may, and some of the papers like to write about it.

 

But in reality they use computers (the electric kind, not the old human ones from the 50s) and a data model to analyse the cost-benefit of their losses. They worked out that it's more profitable to accept a level of loss to theft than pay people to stand in the doorway and do pretty much nothing whilst that theft occurs. The continue to analyse that cost-benefit over time and adjust their behaviour according to the information they can deduce from the data. 

 

You use experience (based on data) to make the judgement call you're describing. Your brain takes the billions of learned experiences you have and makes a calculation on which you guess about future potential. You're right how many times? 50%? 75% 10% I don't know - maybe you do.

 

Humans are simply better at that than data-driven robots right now. We won't be forever, and indeed a blended human-robot model is already better than either on its own.

 

You know how I know that? Because there are dozens of billion-dollar companies doing it in sport (football, baseball, American football), media (Disney, Meta, Google), business (Amazon, Shell, BP)... the list is endless. You think those companies, which run the world, don't have hundreds of millions of dollars invested in data-driven decision making? You think they are still just a bunch of old men sat around a boardroom table smoking and shouting "BUY BUY BUY" in to a phone?

 

This very website - little old OWTB and our 100-150 Oldham fans - is advertised on entirely based on data. Our Ad partners know more about all of us than our wives, husbands or children ever, ever will!

 

I'm ranting, I don't really know why. I suppose I'm just passionate about looking forward not backwards.

 

Please can someone let me know the success rate of DUs stats bombs?

[Crusoe]

4 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

Please can someone let me know the success rate of DUs stats bombs?

 

I wouldn't imagine it's a very high success rate.

 

But as you well know, DU's failure doesn't mean the whole idea is flawed. Any more than a team with bad scouts means all scouts are bad.

[Ackey]

  

8 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

Please can someone let me know the success rate of DUs stats bombs?

 

Sadly, I don't think so. That's not because Statsbombs is bad, or using it is bad, it's because our application of it is bad. I am not saying we did it well. I am saying we should try and do it well, as opposed to pretending the world isn't moving forwards and relying on tech that's outdated.

 

For Example

House-phones were the market leader in voice communications. Then mobile phones happened. But mobiles were a bit shit, not everyone used them. They evolved and Blackberry became the market leader in mobile phones. It dominated the business market especially. Then Apple released a touchscreen phone. Blackberry failed to modernize (though they did adopt a touchscreen). They lagged. And now they're gone.

 

[Blue = Apple / Light = Samsung / Dark = Blackberry]

 

It wasn't that Blackberry suddenly didn't compete or have the right people or technology. It was that they failed to modernize, they didn't adapt. They tried to keep doing things on their terms.

 

 

I could give you 100's of examples like this. You're picking one example - little old Oldham - as yours. You're not wrong - Oldham did it badly, we need to learn, grow and modernize. If not we're on a very bad road that leads to what happened to Blackberry - we simply stop competing, and we stop existing. 

[JoeP]

13 hours ago, mcfluff1985 said:

 

Maybe you're looking at it in the wrong way. Maybe think that if we hadn't used StatsBomb our signings would have been much worse...

 

Ha!

[Worcester Owl]

22 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

Please can someone let me know the success rate of DUs stats bombs?

Isn't the point here that DU and his support team were using Statsbomb as a filter, a way of highlighting a select group of players to be considered for acquisition/selection from a huge universe (even or especially at our level)? The use that he or any manager/coach/DoF then makes of that select group is down to him/them and they succeed or not from that choice. In today's world a combination of tech and human scouting is surely the pragmatic way forward. Just because DU failed (in his first managerial job) surely doesn't invalidate Statsbomb as a process.

 

In the days when it was all about scouting and/or word of mouth, even that wasn't infallible. We can all think of players who looked to have the world at their feet but didn't make it as expected, or conversely players turned down by one or more clubs who succeeded eventually. There are so many variables involved in making it as a successful professional footballer.

[BP1960]

1 hour ago, Worcester Owl said:

Isn't the point here that DU and his support team were using Statsbomb as a filter, a way of highlighting a select group of players to be considered for acquisition/selection from a huge universe (even or especially at our level)? The use that he or any manager/coach/DoF then makes of that select group is down to him/them and they succeed or not from that choice. In today's world a combination of tech and human scouting is surely the pragmatic way forward. Just because DU failed (in his first managerial job) surely doesn't invalidate Statsbomb as a process.

 

In the days when it was all about scouting and/or word of mouth, even that wasn't infallible. We can all think of players who looked to have the world at their feet but didn't make it as expected, or conversely players turned down by one or more clubs who succeeded eventually. There are so many variables involved in making it as a successful professional footballer.

 

True, all I've been saying they must be watched too, not just based on numbers or agents recommendations.

[jsslatic]

3 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

True, all I've been saying they must be watched too, not just based on numbers or agents recommendations.

 

Christ. They are watched!

[nzlatic]

51 minutes ago, jsslatic said:

 

Christ. They are watched!

Are you sure? I have it on good authority that the physio room has been taken over so it can house the statsbomb supercomputer. When we need a player, Darren Royle goes in the room, puts the headset on and speaks into the microphone... "computer, we need a striker". After a few minutes of clicks and whirrs, the console lights up and a ticker tape comes out with 3 recommendations on it, selected purely because of their stats. DR then chooses the name, feeds it back into the computer and clicks the button for 3 year contract. The computer then faxes the club in question with contract.

 

Who needs scouts?

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

57 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Are you sure? I have it on good authority that the physio room has been taken over so it can house the statsbomb supercomputer. When we need a player, Darren Royle goes in the room, puts the headset on and speaks into the microphone... "computer, we need a striker". After a few minutes of clicks and whirrs, the console lights up and a ticker tape comes out with 3 recommendations on it, selected purely because of their stats. DR then chooses the name, feeds it back into the computer and clicks the button for 3 year contract. The computer then faxes the club in question with contract.

 

Who needs scouts?

 

Shhh. Don't tell @BP1960 about the microchips all players have fitted into their boots from the Northwest Counties league upwards.

[TheBigDog]

4 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

Shhh. Don't tell @BP1960 about the microchips all players have fitted into their boots from the Northwest Counties league upwards.

Or the micro chips that are placed into those ‘man bra’ things that the players wear

[BP1960]

2 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

Shhh. Don't tell @BP1960 about the microchips all players have fitted into their boots from the Northwest Counties league upwards.

 

Whereas in Sunday League it's just pie a chips.

 

[JoeP]

4 hours ago, nzlatic said:

Are you sure? I have it on good authority that the physio room has been taken over so it can house the statsbomb supercomputer. When we need a player, Darren Royle goes in the room, puts the headset on and speaks into the microphone... "computer, we need a striker". After a few minutes of clicks and whirrs, the console lights up and a ticker tape comes out with 3 recommendations on it, selected purely because of their stats. DR then chooses the name, feeds it back into the computer and clicks the button for 3 year contract. The computer then faxes the club in question with contract.

 

Who needs scouts?

 

I really want to believe that this is miles from what happens in reality....

[Monty Burns]

On 5/14/2024 at 10:35 PM, League one forever said:

Do you reckon Murray was responsible for our style of play/set up? 

not if the youths were any indication

[Boyyou]

1 hour ago, Monty Burns said:

not if the youths were any indication

Thought Chuks Akuneto was youth team coach, much lauded by BP1960 

[inspectormorose]

On 5/16/2024 at 2:34 PM, BP1960 said:

 

Stats can tell you only so much, they are a tool that can be used as indicators of past history, however, as far as footballers are concerned they can't tell you of the future potential of lower level players, which is what I look for. Take out the human element and you might as well leave it to A! alone - and we can see the dangerous path that is leading to in society. Maybe in the long term future robots will be actually playing the game (perhaps not so far out as we saw from some of Latics performances last season). 

I'll give you an example I saw Tony Naylor play Sunday League at the age of 23, no stats bombs in the world would have recommended him to an EFL club, yet he turned  out to be a prolific goal scorer. When I watched him I and could see  he would fill out his small frame and had technical ability better than many FL players. He only got into the  EFL after scoring an hat trick for Droylsden against Crewe in a pre season friendly - who promptly signed him after the match.

Send me the stats bombs and if they match what I see in ability and desire you will have star on your hands.

Don't think you were scouting him the one day I was his strike partner.

 

Inter league game for the Nelson pub against a team from Barnsley at their pitch.

 

Our keeper had a better offer that day so our manager went in goal replete with Frank flat cap as I remember (ahead of his time).

 

In a game interrupted for 90 minutes by a schools cricket final who's boundary overlapped the football pitch we took the lead, twice.

 

It all went downhill from there and it finished Team from Barnsley 21 Nelson 3 (Naylor 2, Morose 1).

[BP1960]

1 hour ago, inspectormorose said:

Don't think you were scouting him the one day I was his strike partner.

 

Inter league game for the Nelson pub against a team from Barnsley at their pitch.

 

Our keeper had a better offer that day so our manager went in goal replete with Frank flat cap as I remember (ahead of his time).

 

In a game interrupted for 90 minutes by a schools cricket final who's boundary overlapped the football pitch we took the lead, twice.

 

It all went downhill from there and it finished Team from Barnsley 21 Nelson 3 (Naylor 2, Morose 1).

 

Missed that one, I first saw him in a schoolboy match when he was about 14yo and always kept track of him.

The only thing that held him back in his youth I thought was he was small and light weight, but he had a knack of finding space to keep him away from the physical defenders and maybe this is why he eventually made the grade.

I probably saw yourself  at sometime and as his strike partner so you can take some credit for his success.

Another one I scouted in Sunday League was Tony Ellis, technically as good as player as you would see outside the top flight.

He did eventually sign for Oldham without much success, but later had a great career with PNE.

I recommended Lee Trundle from Sunday League to several EFL clubs including Latics, but his off the field antics put them off.

The magic man did come good later though.

His book is a great read.

Edited May 17 by BP1960

[Monty Burns]

12 hours ago, Boyyou said:

Thought Chuks Akuneto was youth team coach, much lauded by BP1960 

coach yeah. Muzza was the manager. l'd imagine Chucks is now doing both.

[Monty Burns]

10 hours ago, inspectormorose said:

Don't think you were scouting him the one day I was his strike partner.

 

Inter league game for the Nelson pub against a team from Barnsley at their pitch.

 

Our keeper had a better offer that day so our manager went in goal replete with Frank flat cap as I remember (ahead of his time).

 

In a game interrupted for 90 minutes by a schools cricket final who's boundary overlapped the football pitch we took the lead, twice.

 

It all went downhill from there and it finished Team from Barnsley 21 Nelson 3 (Naylor 2, Morose 1).

which Nelson? the one Tro played number 10 for? what a player he was

[inspectormorose]

53 minutes ago, Monty Burns said:

which Nelson? the one Tro played number 10 for? what a player he was

Used to be on Union St in Oldham and eventually became the Buck and Union.

[Bobledgersheart]

22 minutes ago, inspectormorose said:

Used to be on Union St in Oldham and eventually became the Buck and Union.

Used to drop an old chap there an odd time called Mansell ? I think.

He used to put his ciggy behind his ear when he played crib and his hair was yellow with nicotine !!

 

ps Can't remember what I had for tea last night !   

[deyres42]

Crawley making use of the stats and playing very attractive football.

[Boyyou]

5 hours ago, deyres42 said:

Crawley making use of the stats and playing very attractive football.

Just posted on another thread.

They won promotion with a data driven recruitment policy after being taken over by a couple of cryptocurrency and NFT types.

[yarddog73]

10 hours ago, Boyyou said:

Just posted on another thread.

They won promotion with a data driven recruitment policy after being taken over by a couple of cryptocurrency and NFT types.

As well as playing a bit they had some legs all over the park which we lacked, I imagine further up the ladder you go the more reliable the data is.

 

I cannot for the life of me see where Joe Nuttall would of excelled under any data driven system, we actually actively persude him which is crazy really when you look back on it.

[GlossopLatic]

16 hours ago, Boyyou said:

Just posted on another thread.

They won promotion with a data driven recruitment policy after being taken over by a couple of cryptocurrency and NFT types.

Crawley

 

Article here from the Guardian. Looks like they had a really rocky start then turned it around the catalyst was bringing Scott Lindsey to the club to manage the team but they've used data to help sign players from L2 and Non-league. They have clearly done it better than us. But if we are to sum it up, the data analysis is there to help people not directly replace them.

Edited May 20 by GlossopLatic