Lags Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) I don't like the route this thread is taking. Can we get back to the sabre rattling and incognito threats please, it's far more entertaining. change my mind not posting here Edited April 15, 2014 by Lags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I don't like the route this thread is taking. Can we get back to the sabre rattling and incognito threats please, it's far more entertaining. Perhaps we can start a 'Fight your personal battles here thread', any fighting talk in any other thread will be sin binned to that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.hill12 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 According to the other thread all communication will be through Facebook.... Social media will be prominent but the website is to be the focal point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Craig - the airs clear now, no problem. I'll probably see you at carlisle if you're going. As for the meeting, yes it has made a difference, but it shouldn't have needed an AGM to put in place things that should already be happening. But as I said that's in the past now. The changes in the pipeline sound good (don't want to pre-empt the minutes) and there's something in place to follow up and make things happen. Some things will hopefully happen quickly, others might take longer, but the point has been made and accepted that change is needed, that people who aren't attending meetings should be listened to and that more openness is needed, where it can be done. It would be good to see more people at the next event, to show that the changes (once announced fully) are generating more interest, but I'm sure those that do attend (I should be going, if nothing I can't get out of crops up) wlll take up comments from here/other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) Dear all here is the meat on the bones from Diego post, thanks to Diego, real and brieley5555 for feed back. latics for England, c. hill and Jorvik may not have had chance to read the notes but I am sure will comment on the attached if I've dropped a clanger Location: O2 sponsor lounges at BP, time 6.30pm onwards open meeting & any relevant info from the AGM afterwards. Attendees from the trust: Rick Attwood membership, Ray coverly?? Secretary and Barry Owen chairman. Other attendees: Tony?, mark winterbottom, Tony & Margaret Doran, will Gough, simon Colebrook and dad! Diane mellor! Tracy Wright, Paul whitehead, Nigel? (Real), a.nother, brierlys555, Janet winterbottom, Chris hill and jan Curtis (another fan). intro from Barry Owen with regards to the trust history, 10 original directors now down to 5, max number is 12. best models with how a trust is run is Telford and Exeter although they have had there hurdles too. Terry asked about the agenda of the current owner, Barry asked if we could touch on this further down the line Barry explained that at tonight's AGM they are proposing a change to trust membership for the better. currently there are 701 members and no one has ever resigned: 1) all season ticket holders will automatically become trust members with voting privileges, 2) none S.T's who donate money/time can become trust members by completing an online form via the trust website and will gain voting rights. 3) none S.Ts without donation of money or time can via the same method but have no voting rights. This was then approved at the AGM meeting afterwards. Terry and O4U via OWTB, asked why a change to the trust status?history is the trust was a company limited by guarentee, then a change to ta friendly society but on advice, have changed back to company limited by guarentee. This info needs to be updated on the trust website to reflect this Elections to The board correct by Diego for me: THE RULES TABLED LAST NIGHT SAY TWO DIRECTORS SHALL RETIRE AT THE 2015 AGM AND TWO AT EACH AGM THEREAFTER. Trust net finances stand at £9,921.00-- thanks Real for the correction and the trust admit that they have not run many events this season such as meet the manager. one event they tried was cancelled as demand for tickets was not good, re the village venue in Ashton. The trust admit that the location and logistics to get there may have been an issue as well as day of the week chosen. An event at the Milan bar was a success though. With regards to the finances, the trust have learnt from past lessons, there are now safeguards in place and finances have been checked by a qualified auditor. The new trust treasurer has insisted that they were checked before he takes over the reigns now. Barry also confirmed that he does not get paid, he does not get expenses, does not have a trust mobile either, re recent rumours Website & communication. all agreed that now the new webpage for the trust is in place, that it needs to be checked on a daily basis, updated. Rick explained there is a new webmaster who will take ownership of this and will be looked after by mark Corbett? But help is needed/fans input to run it such as media update, fans reports etc. From both home, away and exiles too. Until this has the help needed to run it, rick has created a facebook trust page and Updates will be put on there too. The trust needs to decide which of all the media tools out there to use, what is the best method of fans to communicate with the trust. The official trust facebook webpage will be the right tool, with possible links in form other sites to it such as OWTB, currently the trust facebook page is being used to communicate with the fans. Tracy wright raised the point that not all fans surf the web. have the trust considered having visible reps at the ground if not in all stands, the club shop? And if there are no bodies, posters/suggestion boxes in the stands, Nigel (real) mentioned add in the programme too. suggestion that the trust have an open door meeting half an hour before the members meeting too. terry mention about consultation with the fans more over changes such as the recent stand swapping and change of kit, that maybe sampling/quick survey with the fans may have prevented the uproar with regards to stand swapping, Will Gough confirmed this. Suggestion that a quick survey could have prevented the u-turn, maybe volunteers of a quick sample group of fans, using owtb ect should be considered. Also the new stand, is there going to be a visible place for the trust to be in there. Paul whitehead confirmed that the club have to maximise the money out of every space and would be wrong to divulge information at this stage as contracts with possible interested parties are in negotiation, but has been to many away grounds on his travels and has been scoping out how other clubs operate and how we can use this source as a possible fans bar. The trust have taken the suggestions on board Terry mentioned earlier about the Agenda of the current owner and recent newspaper article. Barry explained the relationship with an owner with 97% share and the trust with 3% share and how in the early days he tried the union stance of going in there demanding to know finances ECt but hit brick walls, a change of tact softly softly approach has opened the doors and now the trust has got complete transparency of the day to day working of the club and has the knowledge to take over if the worse case scenario happened. Paul whitehead confirmed that he felt the trust were in a better position now to take over because of how the relationship of club and trust has evolved. Better working relationship with the club, financially could be better and now need to work on improving the connection with the fans. Request for help from the trust: a social sub committee organiser is needed to have ideas on social events, the website- fans reporters, article writers needed, rick needs help with the day to day running of the membership side (Will gough to consider this on a probationary basis for both parties), any help would not be turned away, eg Tracy wright would hand out trust leaflets on match days or be on hand in the RRE with regards to trust questions. Paul whitehead suggested we set the next meeting date now so we do not sit on our laurels. Provisionally all agreed on 19th may tba on time and location. AGM: confirmation of what the mission statement is: 1) protecting the future of Oldham athletic. 2) representing the views of the fans and the community. 3) investing in the future of oldham athletic. Proposed changes to membership accepted and will now go to the board of OAFC Election to the board of: Ray coverly as secretary and simon Colebrook as treasurer Barry is up for election next year ( I'm sure that's what he said... )Note that if he is unsuccessful then the new representative as the fans voice on the board has to be accepted by the club too. This could be a potential hurdle. Nomination of co opted member: Chris hill volunteer his service to the board in a communication capacity. Board and Chris agreed that this should be a 6 month probationary for both parties and then if both parties are happy, then to go forward at the next AGM for a permanent board position with a 3yr tenure END Hope this doesn't confuse the hell out of you all. I am sure there are going to be more questions ove the next few weeks but as one fellow poster has put on another thread, this isn't going to happen overnight and so a few more days possible weeks need to be given re the website and the collection of volunteers names and roles. But at least the next open door meeting has been planned so more updates at least then. Now I'm off to the gym. I'll login later I bloody hope someone can help with all this technology as it would be bloody easier if a webinar, skype thingy with the fans on line might save my bloody fingers..heheh Edited April 15, 2014 by underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Love how the geeks and payroll monkeys are fighting for the right to do the database stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Barry is up for election next year ( I'm sure that's what he said... )Note that if he is unsuccessful then the new representative as the fans voice on the board has to be accepted by the club too. This could be a potential hurdle. I thought the 3% ownership guaranteed a place on the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 It's lucky you included the word geeks. I've killed people for less than suggesting I'm anything to do with payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 It's lucky you included the word geeks. I've killed people for less than suggesting I'm anything to do with payroll. Good luck with imputing on the database Zorro, collating the membership from various sources will be a big task though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Barry is up for election next year ( I'm sure that's what he said... )Note that if he is unsuccessful then the new representative as the fans voice on the board has to be accepted by the club too. This could be a potential hurdle. I can't help translating this as "If I'm not in, no-body is". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I thought the 3% ownership guaranteed a place on the board? The 3% are non voting shares so in my opinion, it does not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) The 3% are non voting shares so in my opinion, it does not!You can sit on a board without having voting rights. I though The Trust's B shares guaranteed this. I appreciate that other directors can choose to ignore whoever the a Trust puts forwards within the boardroom but I didn't think they had the right to veto an appointment. Edited April 15, 2014 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 You can sit on a board without having voting rights. I though The Trust's B shares guaranteed this. I appreciate that other directors can choose to ignore whoever the a Trust puts forwards but I didn't think they had the right to veto an appointment. Please find where that guarantee exists because it is not usually within most private limited Companies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Please find where that guarantee exists because it is not usually within most private limited Companies! I'll let others who were around at the time put me right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 My recollection is that the price paid gave a guaranteed seat on the board. Especially when the price paid was around £200k, for shares that had a value of virtually nothing. Whether there is an approval clause I don't know, but it's something that could be taken up the next time there is a trust meeting. Any director has to firstly act in the interest of the club (when sitting on the board) so they would not have free reign to disclose information, and if they did so, it would potentially harm the club and in the long term the trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Umm - that 701 number is a bit weird. I have the members list which was produced around Nov 2007. On that: 702 members in total 493 joined 2004/05 or prior 138 in 2005/06 43 in 2006/07 Another 24 have no joining date 4 have had their details removed I'm really hoping that they've been keeping records of those who've joined/donated since then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) Umm - that 701 number is a bit weird. I have the members list which was produced around Nov 2007. On that: 702 members in total 493 joined 2004/05 or prior 138 in 2005/06 43 in 2006/07 Another 24 have no joining date 4 have had their details removed I'm really hoping that they've been keeping records of those who've joined/donated since then... I've looked over last nights financial statement for the year end dec'13 and that figure is quoted on page 2 What I find interesting is on page 5is that membership subscriptions up to the end of dec'13 totalled £610.00, the previous year it was £1,402.00. So I think we can work out that membership is on the decline. I am sure when the relevant help is on board with membership that someone can work on the historical membership details. I think we should concentrate on the here and now. like BP1690 has suggested contacted the 701 quoted see if they are still interested in the trust and look at recruiting more via the new membership rolled out last night. Edited April 15, 2014 by underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I don't think I'm alone n thinking that being a director is not wholly compatible withe being a fans' rep - too many conflicts of interest. As Barry is presumably now a trusted colleague of the owner I wonder whether the way forward would be for Barry to be a director and for AN Other to be a fans rep. That rep would not be a permanent attendee at board meetings;they would attend for specific agenda items and talk to staff outside those meetings on specific points where they have been mandated to do so by the trust membership. Contrary to widespread opinion in the social media age I don't see fans as having a right to know everything about the workings of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 . like BP1690 has suggested contacted the 701 quoted see if they are still interested in the trust and look at recruiting more via the new membership rolled out last night. Well if they don't already have them, I have the contact details of those 700 odd. Very old, so lots will be out of date, but it's a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong but just because the trust has a shareholding it doesn't mean we have to have a seat on the board. Directors have to be elected to the board as there are only 2 shareholders one with 97% and one with 3% the one with the 97% will hold sway. Therefore if someonelse took Barry's place they would have to still be accepted by corney onto the board. From corneys point of view though if a replacement to Barry isn't elected to the board then he could potentially drive a wedge between himself and the fans which won't do him any favours. So no we aren't guaranteed a position on the board however it will happen unless we elect someone who takes the militant approach and can't work with corney. Again correct me if I'm wrong with this I've only just started learning corporate governance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I don't think I'm alone n thinking that being a director is not wholly compatible withe being a fans' rep - too many conflicts of interest. As Barry is presumably now a trusted colleague of the owner I wonder whether the way forward would be for Barry to be a director and for AN Other to be a fans rep. That rep would not be a permanent attendee at board meetings;they would attend for specific agenda items and talk to staff outside those meetings on specific points where they have been mandated to do so by the trust membership. Contrary to widespread opinion in the social media age I don't see fans as having a right to know everything about the workings of the club. The fans, via the trust, have a right to know as much as any shareholder at any other business does. The trust also has the right for its agreement with the owners from the time the trust donated its money, and any possible further agreements since then to not be broken without penalties. It will depend on the wording of that (those) agreement(s) as to what say the owner has on who has the fans' seat on the board. If that wording means the owners have final say about it, no matter who the trust elect to the position, then that is IMHO a serious error on behalf of the trust, and questions will need to be asked how culpable those people from the trust are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) Therefore if someonelse took Barry's place they would have to still be accepted by corney onto the board. I struggle with this. It's not Barry's seat on the board. It's the Trust's seat on the board. This won't be a gentleman's agreement dependent on Barry being the chosen one. It will be part of the construct of the company. Edited April 15, 2014 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I don't think I'm alone n thinking that being a director is not wholly compatible withe being a fans' rep - too many conflicts of interest. As Barry is presumably now a trusted colleague of the owner I wonder whether the way forward would be for Barry to be a director and for AN Other to be a fans rep. That rep would not be a permanent attendee at board meetings;they would attend for specific agenda items and talk to staff outside those meetings on specific points where they have been mandated to do so by the trust membership. Contrary to widespread opinion in the social media age I don't see fans as having a right to know everything about the workings of the club. I did come to that conclusion myself, that in my opinion, Barry is valuable to both the club and trust, but.....I think being the fans voice is another matter and we the fans need a fresh face, stepping stone kind of link to trust board. It was also suggested that if this was an agreed role, it may help with this person being a buffer and take the burden off Barry directly communicating rightly or wrongly to fans on OWTB ect. Not necessarily that Barry be incommunicado or not responsive but a new face/link might help to encourage more Positiveness about the trust. I think that is the role that Chris Hill is chewing over and of course, communication in general. latics and England (Mark) did ask a similar question to Barry but I didn't quite catch the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 The fans, via the trust, have a right to know as much as any shareholder at any other business does. Yes, I agree. But shareholders in companies don't get the right to see everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Regarding the constitution, I can't find a copy on this laptop, but it won't be a million miles away from this: http://2445.members.page4.me/system/content/doculink/download.php?id=805 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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