Wellens

[oafcmetty]

9 minutes ago, owdumer said:

Are you trying to impress Magister?

He's demonstrating his clear communication skills!

[singe]

11 minutes ago, owdumer said:

Are you trying to impress Magister?

An extraordinarily large word. A word that only the pedantic use.

Not me saying it.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sesquipedalian

[ghostofcecere]

46 minutes ago, HallamBlue said:

as is this a strange one..... "Thanks must also go to former Chairman Simon Corney, who trusted me and gave me the role on a permanent basis" thought it was AL fronting the press conference could be wrong we have so many false dawns. 

I think it was just an “OWTB fact” that it was Lemsagem who appointed Wellens against Corney’s wishes who wanted Scholes.

[leeslover]

31 minutes ago, singe said:

Any significance to the timing of this?

Normally you'd expect it shortly after he has departed, and noting it is through LMA.

 

Has a settlement been agreed?

Perhaps he only just got from his third holiday

[Gary1906]

3 hours ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

Yep, like deyeres says above, Abdallah's absence from the statement is telling.....

 

While he undoubtedly lost his way during the run in.... I was initially really impressed with the freshness of Wellens' early interviews..... while not the most sesquipedalian of orators, I found his communication skills clear, concise and thought provoking. Similar to Lee Johnson in many ways.

 

I also appreciate some people's view that he was a little too quick to offer an opinion.... and some suspect he may have been leaking information to the Press.

 

However, my initial gut reaction to being impressed with him, still leaves me concerned that the main problem(s) he encountered were not of his own doing.... and may still be an influence this coming season.

 

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but Lemsagam worries me to death. I'd still like to hear about his motivations and his Plans.

My sentiments entirely.

I will say this about Wellens, I went to Portsmouth away and it was quite simply the best performance that I’ve seen from a Latics team in donkeys years! We simply played Pompey off their own pitch. MK Dons away was similar in the first half as well.

He had the team playing some lovely attacking football that was a joy to watch.

I’ve no idea what went wrong ultimately although Doyle’s illness and his struggle to recapture his form obviously played a big part as did Byrne being only half the player that he had been in the first half of the season. Gerrard only lasting 38 minutes away at Bury - when he probably shouldn’t have played - and then being out for several games afterwards when his experience could have been invaluable.

We don’t know what else happened behind the scenes. What happened to Davies’ for instance??

I do agree that some of the problems will not have been Wellens’ doing, and the jury is still out on Mr Lemsagam (at least this member of the jury is!).

Lets hope Lemsagam/Bunn/Rhodes can turn things around and get us promoted at the first attempt.

And let’s hope that the management team are allowed to manage the team without interference from above.

Heres hoping!

COYB!!! ⚽️⚽️

[deyres42]

He'll get a decent job somewhere and do well.

[Twisbrogan]

6 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

He'll get a decent job somewhere and do well.

...for up to a dozen games before he starts gobbing off.

[yarddog73]

11 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

He'll get a decent job somewhere and do well.

Nah he won't he will end up coaching somewhere and will struggle to get a job in the FL never mind a decent one especially if the newspaper leaks were anything to do with him, lets face it what chairman will put up with that shitty behaviour, sadly after a bright start the bloke turned into an excuse merchant and its continued in the statement he's given, wish him well but it will be a long way back from what was ultimately a shocking season as a manager.

[deyres42]

14 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Nah he won't he will end up coaching somewhere and will struggle to get a job in the FL never mind a decent one especially if the newspaper leaks were anything to do with him, lets face it what chairman will put up with that shitty behaviour, sadly after a bright start the bloke turned into an excuse merchant and its continued in the statement he's given, wish him well but it will be a long way back from what was ultimately a shocking season as a manager.

I think the excuses were plentiful and valid to be fair.

[leeslover]

33 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

He'll get a decent job somewhere and do well.

He'll do ok for a while if his job involves identifying players who are clearly very good at the level and he has a chairman willing to sign them. He's a fraud talking about developing an ethos when he did nothing but piss and whine about the squad he had.

[Gary1906]

26 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Nah he won't he will end up coaching somewhere and will struggle to get a job in the FL never mind a decent one especially if the newspaper leaks were anything to do with him, lets face it what chairman will put up with that shitty behaviour, sadly after a bright start the bloke turned into an excuse merchant and its continued in the statement he's given, wish him well but it will be a long way back from what was ultimately a shocking season as a manager.

Has anyone been able to provide a shred of proof that Wellens was responsible for the leak to the press?? I haven’t seen any unless I’ve missed it.

Plus why would he? By doing so he would be obviously at risk of losing his job. His FIRST job in management. Why would he want to be seen as a young manager who can’t be trusted by any prospective owner or chairman. I just don’t see it, sorry.

[Gary1906]

4 minutes ago, leeslover said:

He'll do ok for a while if his job involves identifying players who are clearly very good at the level and he has a chairman willing to sign them. He's a fraud talking about developing an ethos when he did nothing but piss and whine about the squad he had.

Considering that the squad was relegated he probably had good cause to whine and moan about some of them!

[yarddog73]

25 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

I think the excuses were plentiful and valid to be fair.

Yes like the snow and the shit pitches and injuries, we must of been the only team suffering in these instances, sorry but in the end he came over as a bit of a moany bastard who seemed happy to take the plaudits when all appeared good but was the first to start panicking when the shit hit the fan, as for the press leak who knows who the source was but the finger has been pointed at him and I have yet to see a denial, other clubs may well have seen enough to be put off though.

Edited June 27, 2018 by yarddog73

[Ricardo]

5 minutes ago, Gary1906 said:

Considering that the squad was relegated he probably had good cause to whine and moan about some of them!

 

The squad which he helped create with the loanees he wanted, the man still takes no responsibility for taking us down and just contradicts himself in attempt to point the finger once again.

 

We managed to build some momentum but unfortunately, we were lacking in squad depth and options at key times in the season, and there is no hiding place in that division with games coming thick and fast on Saturdays and Tuesdays, against competitive sides.

 

So after making an excuse he then goes on to say

 

I will make no excuses though.

 

He moans and then says no excuses, he has done nothing but moan and whine, nothing being his fault. He cannot motivate players, his tactics were shit, he played people out of position and made bizarre substitutions - he may have been a decent player but as a manager he will always be found wanting until he grows a pair and accepts responsiblity for his own failings. Until then he will never learn as it will always be somebody else’s fault and will carry on deluding himself.

 

 

 

[deyres42]

15 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Yes like the snow and the shit pitches and injuries, we must of been the only team suffering in these instances, sorry but in the end he came over as a bit of a moany bastard who seemed happy to take the plaudits when all appeared good but was the first to start panicking when the shit hit the fan, as for the press leak who knows who the source was but the finger has been pointed at him and I have yet to see a denial, other clubs may well have seen enough to be put off though.

Personal view is that if he was a manager with vast experience behind him, a la Sheridan, then criticism would be fair, a bloke doing it for the first time, regardless of whether he knew the script or not, deserves a bit of slack.

 

I'm not too worried about the leak or where it came from.

[Bobledgersheart]

 

13 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

I'm not too worried about the leak or where it came from.

Would agree with your first point but not this. Whatever you think of your employer or workmates squealing to a reporter (some of whom are amongst the lowest of the low) for any reason will not get you well thought of and serves little useful purpose, whoever did it !

[deyres42]

6 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said:

 

Would agree with your first point but not this. Whatever you think of your employer or workmates squealing to a reporter (some of whom are amongst the lowest of the low) for any reason will not get you well thought of and serves little useful purpose, whoever did it !

Well it served the purpose of getting him the sack which may or may not have been his preferred option depending on who you believe!

[UpTheLatics]

I don't begrudge Wellens the opportunity to offer his interpretation of events and It effectively draws the whole sorry thing to an evens conclusion. There is not a scintilla of evidence that Wellens was whispering to the press and although his deserves his share of criticism for his management that led to relegation, such baseless accusations are rather unfair.

 

To repeat what a few others have said, we now have to face what is in front of us. We have to contend with an unknown individual who, if the reports in the newspapers are to be believed (I've yet to hear or read a convincing rebuttal to the details), has resorted to the brutal trigger in his attempt to establish full control of a club devoid of morale and strategic planning. In my view, a convincing case for successive relegations can be made; we don't know how Lemsagam plans to sensibly finance a return to division three football, he is given to dictation, he is using the squad as a route way for poor players from the continent, he's appointed two very questionable individuals who are all smiles and lacking experience in the dugout and there is nobody left in the club to tell him to stop.

 

I speak as I see things and thus far it doesn't look promising. 

 

 

[archiecat]

5 minutes ago, UpTheLatics said:

I don't begrudge Wellens the opportunity to offer his interpretation of events and It effectively draws the whole sorry thing to an evens conclusion. There is not a scintilla of evidence that Wellens was whispering to the press and although his deserves his share of criticism for his management that led to relegation, such baseless accusations are rather unfair.

 

To repeat what a few others have said, we now have to face what is in front of us. We have to contend with an unknown individual who, if the reports in the newspapers are to be believed (I've yet to hear or read a convincing rebuttal to the details), has resorted to the brutal trigger in his attempt to establish full control of a club devoid of morale and strategic planning. In my view, a convincing case for successive relegations can be made; we don't know how Lemsagam plans to sensibly finance a return to division three football, he is given to dictation, he is using the squad as a route way for poor players from the continent, he's appointed two very questionable individuals who are all smiles and lacking experience in the dugout and there is nobody left in the club to tell him to stop.

 

I speak as I see things and thus far it doesn't look promising. 

 

 

Nah, sorry but Wellens version doesn't include his many shortcomings.

I will agree that Lemsagam strikes me as rather dodge but i feel your assessment of Bunn and Rhodes as " two very questionable individuals" is well wide of the mark!

They must have over 70 years experience of playing and coaching between them and without checking, i would dare to say all at a higher level than we are now.

 

[oafc1955]

Wellens had a great start and that is ultimately the reason he got the job permanently. Most new managers get a response from the squad as it gives players a clean slate and chance to impress. 

 

Its easy to say in hindsight but apart from a change of keeper and the form of Doyle that was probably the main reason for our quick improvement. 

 

Once the impetus dropped off and we’d reverted to type he didn’t have a bloody clue what to do and the longer the poor run continued the more excuses he poured out.

 

Its been said AL had to much influence in player recruitment but if you are the manager, rookie or not you are the manager. If you don’t set out the ground rules from the off and insist that you have complete control of the squad both on and off the field then you can have no complaints afterwards about interference from the owner.

 

He knew the situation from the start and if he’d been stronger during his purple patch when he was offered the job and had turned it down,  he would have probably been in to a new job fairly quickly afterwards.

 

I think his man management part of the job has let him down, he should never have allowed the rumoured cliques to develop within the squad and should have got them all singing off the same hymn sheet. 

 

As for the press leaks I think that was just an attempt at shifting the blame which has just sadly backfired.

 

I believe the experience of both Bunn & Rhodes will give us a much better chance of long term success....despite some of the doom & gloomers on here I’m quite looking forward to next season!

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by oafc1955

[UpTheLatics]

2 minutes ago, archiecat said:

Nah, sorry but Wellens version doesn't include his many shortcomings.

I will agree that Lemsagam strikes me as rather dodge but i feel your assessment of Bunn and Rhodes as " two very questionable individuals" is well wide of the mark!

They must have over 70 years experience of playing and coaching between them and without checking, i would dare to say all at a higher level than we are now.

 

 

As a trade union representative, I don't enter a meeting and slay the member. The LMA is the football staff's union and they most probably wrote that for him. As for Bunn and Rhodes, I admire both of them and will be shouting them on all the way, but do you know find it strange that both are in their mid-50s and haven't an ounce of managerial experience? You'd have to search the history books for summat similar.

 

[archiecat]

I get your drift but still feel they ought to know enough, fingers crossed eh  

[Gary1906]

1 hour ago, archiecat said:

Nah, sorry but Wellens version doesn't include his many shortcomings.

I will agree that Lemsagam strikes me as rather dodge but i feel your assessment of Bunn and Rhodes as " two very questionable individuals" is well wide of the mark!

They must have over 70 years experience of playing and coaching between them and without checking, i would dare to say all at a higher level than we are now.

 

Did either of them play at a higher level than Wellens?? It counts for nothing.

And if Lemsagam tells them what to do or puts pressure on them to pick certain players it will be interesting to see if they are strong enough to say no. Not easy to do when it’s your employer making the suggestions to you.

[archiecat]

8 hours ago, Gary1906 said:

Did either of them play at a higher level than Wellens?? It counts for nothing.

And if Lemsagam tells them what to do or puts pressure on them to pick certain players it will be interesting to see if they are strong enough to say no. Not easy to do when it’s your employer making the suggestions to you.

All three have played to the same standard but Bunn and Rhodes have coaching experience ( and lots of it ) whereas Wellens pretty much swapped his boots for the managers office.

As for the suggestion that Lemsagam will be involved in team selection, i would very much hope that he would not and if pressured his management team would resist the owners efforts to interfere. Old Abdallah doesn't have the greatest managerial record either,does he 

[singe]

13 hours ago, UpTheLatics said:

I don't begrudge Wellens the opportunity to offer his interpretation of events and It effectively draws the whole sorry thing to an evens conclusion. There is not a scintilla of evidence that Wellens was whispering to the press and although his deserves his share of criticism for his management that led to relegation, such baseless accusations are rather unfair.

 

To repeat what a few others have said, we now have to face what is in front of us. We have to contend with an unknown individual who, if the reports in the newspapers are to be believed (I've yet to hear or read a convincing rebuttal to the details), has resorted to the brutal trigger in his attempt to establish full control of a club devoid of morale and strategic planning. In my view, a convincing case for successive relegations can be made; we don't know how Lemsagam plans to sensibly finance a return to division three football, he is given to dictation, he is using the squad as a route way for poor players from the continent, he's appointed two very questionable individuals who are all smiles and lacking experience in the dugout and there is nobody left in the club to tell him to stop.

 

I speak as I see things and thus far it doesn't look promising. 

 

 

Hi Richie.....

 

AL may  prove dodgy, but we simply cannot know. We may go down again. We cannot know.

In the para you argue there is no evidence to prove it was RW, but there is plenty of circumstantial ( as well as rumour) , he has the most to benefit from the article. Some of the accusations cover Corney's time.

In the second para you condemn AL despite"not a scintilla of evidence" to back up the claims.

Bunn & Rhodes are untried, yes, I said the same, but questionable and lacking experience? No way. Both have significant experience two leagues higher, and decades in the game.

Why?