Squad movements, summer 2018

[Bobledgersheart]

3 minutes ago, OLDHAMADE said:

 

We shouldn't even be discussing going back up for we shouldn't have gone down in the first place, Automatic is the minimum requirement after what was a bloody shambles from Wellens. 

I wonder if other club's fans have the expectations and self-importance some of our fans have ? We were bottom four last season for a number of reasons that have been well chronicled on here but the fledgling manager seems to take more than his fair share of stick. Admittedly I  didn't agree with all his team selections BUT whatever eleven that turned out should have been good enough to keep us in League 1. They couldn't graft a couple of wins out of the final few games and so were relegated. And before anyone gets on the lack of motivation from Wellens, if you need motivating to avoid relegation you're not a professional sportsperson.   

[Kusunga_Is_God]

Half the team weren't arsed because half of them know they'll be elsewhere next year.

[JoeP]

6 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said:

I wonder if other club's fans have the expectations and self-importance some of our fans have ? 

 

Corney was castigated for his lack of ambition.  I don't think having some expectation to return to a (albeit grim..) standard, where we've been more than established, is too much to ask.

 

United fans are moaning because they've finished second.  A lot of Arsenal fans had a campaign to remove the most successful manager in their history.  In our other universe, I think we too should be more demanding for success - no one else in the football league has waited as long.

 

Latics have been a losing club for over a quarter of a century.  We should be one of the front runners next season.  Set low targets and you'll get low outcomes.

[Bobledgersheart]

I agree we should be one of the favourites for promotion and see nothing wrong in aiming high. What I don't get is how some fans think it's a divine right to be in a higher league than our form warrants and look down on clubs who they perceive are "smaller" than us who are doing well.

[yarddog73]

2 hours ago, Kusunga_Is_God said:

Need to get the right squad in place and keep them for 2 years. Going to be a big turnover i'd suspect, a lot of new players again and some individuals who are against the manager may still be kicking around.

If we get off to a horrific start  he'll be promptly ousted then survival will be the only focus. A year of stability is crucial. If we fluke it and go up then magic, we'll probably have a bounce to put us into the top 10 of L1

If player power does rule then I suggest the fans start blaming the players instead of (insert manager). Are you suggesting we will have an horrific start because a couple of pour little lambs don't like being told what to do from the current manager? If that's the case its a sad state of affairs and the wankers need to grow up, nobody is bigger than the club.

[yarddog73]

19 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Corney was castigated for his lack of ambition.  I don't think having some expectation to return to a (albeit grim..) standard, where we've been more than established, is too much to ask.

 

United fans are moaning because they've finished second.  A lot of Arsenal fans had a campaign to remove the most successful manager in their history.  In our other universe, I think we too should be more demanding for success - no one else in the football league has waited as long.

 

Latics have been a losing club for over a quarter of a century.  We should be one of the front runners next season.  Set low targets and you'll get low outcomes.

Unfortunately a byproduct of that is an ingrained losers mentality by some of our fans who are now acclimatised to failure, Corney did a grand job of lowering the bar.

[JoeP]

2 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Unfortunately a byproduct of that is an ingrained losers mentality by some of our fans who are now acclimatised to failure, Corney did a grand job of lowering the bar.

 

Yep, and now it's the job of the manager and new owner to turn that mentality around.  They should start the turnaround by having a winning mentality themselves.

 

This is a league we should be competitive in and they should be aiming to get promoted out off it THIS season.

[Dave_Og]

1 hour ago, rudemedic said:

 

Currently we should be aiming to go up as Champions, we took 4 points off all the other relegated sides last season. The other relegated sides, those in the playoffs plus a couple more will be decent competition but currently we should be favourites for the title. 

 

 

Why?  Completely mystified as to how you have reached that conclusion

[rudemedic]

50 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

Why?  Completely mystified as to how you have reached that conclusion

Best side guaranteed to be in the division based on league performances from the season just gone. 

 

The play-off losers might expect to be favourites once confirmed, but the side that finished 21st in League 1 should expect to be favourites until that point. 

 

We aren't which says a lot about the bookies and our off-field issues. 

[yarddog73]

49 minutes ago, rudemedic said:

Best side guaranteed to be in the division based on league performances from the season just gone. 

 

The play-off losers might expect to be favourites once confirmed, but the side that finished 21st in League 1 should expect to be favourites until that point. 

 

We aren't which says a lot about the bookies and our off-field issues. 

If Dale went down they'd be amongst the favourites to bounce back up so there is no real reason why we shouldn't be amongst the favourites to do the same.

 

As shit as we were the last two months of the season we were only beaten once in nine games and we carried three or four players a game.

[Gary1906]

16 hours ago, Smiler13 said:

He shipped more goals last season than Placide and had fewer clean sheets per rata of games that they both played.

You’re not seriously suggesting that Placide is a better keeper than Ripley?!?!?!

You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but for me I’d rather have Ripley any day of the week. He was fantastic for us when he was here. Record number of clean sheets and all that. Johnny flatters to deceive in my opinion. Ripley would be a cracking signing if we could get him.

[Gary1906]

8 hours ago, JoeP said:

A season of consolidation (or mediocrity..) in the division below where we usually aim for consolidation (mediocrity) might push many of our dwindling support over the edge.

 

Wellens and AL should be looking for players now that are going to get us back up instantly.

 

One season of consolidation leads to another and then another and then another and before you know it we've spent 21 years in the same division.

 

None of this "aiming for the play-offs" bollocks either.  We should be aiming to go straight up and settle for the play-offs if we have to.

 

 

Couldn’t agree more! Who consolidates when you’ve dropped down a division?? You consolidate when you get promoted to make sure you stay there.

Latics should be going all out to prove that they are too good for League 2 and try to win the League outright.

Consolidate in a division containing Forest Green, Morecambe and Cheltenham??

You’ve got to be joking!! 

[b0ndl1ne]

19 hours ago, palmer1 said:

 

Unfortunately class seems to get mistaken with being busy. He goes forward a lot and is an option more often than not. But his crossing ability is poor and besides 1 wondr hit vs Bradford I cant remember him actually doing anything of note going forward in 2 years. 

He does plenty. He helps us retain possession for longer periods of time as he links up with the midfield well and they trust him with the ball. Hunt for example is nowhere near as comfortable,  always seems rushed and is a worse crosser of the ball yet the general consensus seems to be that he is better than Dummigan 

[Dave_Og]

9 hours ago, rudemedic said:

Best side guaranteed to be in the division based on league performances from the season just gone. 

 

The play-off losers might expect to be favourites once confirmed, but the side that finished 21st in League 1 should expect to be favourites until that point. 

 

We aren't which says a lot about the bookies and our off-field issues. 

Anyone having a bet at this stage should have their wallet impounded for their own safety. 

[Hometownclub]

13 hours ago, rudemedic said:

Best side guaranteed to be in the division based on league performances from the season just gone. 

 

The play-off losers might expect to be favourites once confirmed, but the side that finished 21st in League 1 should expect to be favourites until that point. 

 

We aren't which says a lot about the bookies and our off-field issues. 

Anyone who watched us in our last eight games, when we only needed to win one of those games, and yet couldn't win any (despite playing several teams who were already on the beach), would rightly have us a shorter price for relegation next season than promotion.

 

We were an absolute disgrace.

[TheBigDog]

2 minutes ago, Hometownclub said:

Anyone who watched us in our last eight games, when we only needed to win one of those games, and yet couldn't win any (despite playing several teams who were already on the beach), would rightly have us a shorter price for relegation next season than promotion.

 

We were an absolute disgrace.

It’s this that saddens me - when it came down to it we simply could not find that victory. A collective failure.

[palmer1]

26 minutes ago, Hometownclub said:

Anyone who watched us in our last eight games, when we only needed to win one of those games, and yet couldn't win any (despite playing several teams who were already on the beach), would rightly have us a shorter price for relegation next season than promotion

 

We were an absolute disgrace.

 

'despite playing several teams who were already on the beach'

 

I keep seeing this which makes me wonder... once a club are safe do their players no longer get their appearance bonus, goal bonus, win bonus etc. Do they no longer need to pay to win a new contract or a move?

 

We should have picked up the win but this on the beach line is complete bollocks!

Edited May 22, 2018 by palmer1

[Crusoe]

15 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

 

Why?  Completely mystified as to how you have reached that conclusion

 

Agreed.

 

Here's a fact (maybe even a FACT*, I've not tried one of those before).

 

In the last eight seasons (2009/10 to 2016/17):

• 32 clubs have been relegated from League One (a few more than once).
• In only 6 out of 32 cases did any of those clubs get promoted the next season  (19% chance).  Normally only one relegated club makes it back up the next season.
• For those clubs that eventually made it back up, they spent on average 2-3 seasons in League Two.
• In 13 out of 32 cases those clubs have never returned to League One (14 if Coventry don't make it through the playoffs).

Sure, various factors will apply in each season (how good each club was, the strength of the division overall, etc).  But given most other clubs' experiences, and our inability to win games at the end of last season, I'm not assuming we're definitely going to buck that trend and be nailed on.

 

* Actual factworthiness of it depends on me having counted correctly.

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Crusoe

[JoeP]

22 minutes ago, Hometownclub said:

Anyone who watched us in our last eight games, when we only needed to win one of those games, and yet couldn't win any (despite playing several teams who were already on the beach), would rightly have us a shorter price for relegation next season than promotion.

 

We were an absolute disgrace.

 

I don't think anyone is saying we'll get promoted with the players that got us relegated.

 

If we have the ambition to get promoted, then we should be able to attract the best players for this division.

[GlossopLatic]

Its way too early at this stage to say how we are going to do at the moment we really have no idea what the team is going to look like on the first day of the season let alone the squad over the whole year. We still have no real idea of what Lemsagams grand plan is.

 

Once our summer transfer activity is done then we can set expectations

[GlossopLatic]

7 minutes ago, OldHallam said:

Very Good try but as a Maths and Physics grad I can assure you statistics mean fuck all too many variables and changes to be accurate. Its a bit like saying pick 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 on the lottery has same statistical chance as any fancy combination you can come up with. Nothing to say all four relegated clubs will come straight back up or all four will get relegated again. 

 

Well actually only 2 can go down from league 2 so I think we can safely say all 4 wont go down again 

Edited May 22, 2018 by GlossopLatic

[pukka]

17 hours ago, Bobledgersheart said:

I wonder if other club's fans have the expectations and self-importance some of our fans have ? We were bottom four last season for a number of reasons that have been well chronicled on here but the fledgling manager seems to take more than his fair share of stick. Admittedly I  didn't agree with all his team selections BUT whatever eleven that turned out should have been good enough to keep us in League 1. They couldn't graft a couple of wins out of the final few games and so were relegated. And before anyone gets on the lack of motivation from Wellens, if you need motivating to avoid relegation you're not a professional sportsperson.   

 

Thinking he did a piss poor job isn't self importance.

Whatever XI turned out should have been good enough? That seems to lay no blame at his door and seems to be full of self importance "we were too good to go down" attitude.

 

Collectively we deserved to go down. Whether people blame the players, the manager or a collection of both (as in my opinion is probably fair) - we have gone down and I'd have binned Wellens off for it... along with some players too.

 

 

[Crusoe]

24 minutes ago, OldHallam said:

Very Good try but as a Maths and Physics grad I can assure you statistics mean fuck all too many variables and changes to be accurate. Its a bit like saying pick 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 on the lottery has same statistical chance as any fancy combination you can come up with. Nothing to say all four relegated clubs will come straight back up or all four will get relegated again. 

 

Sure, of course, I know it's not a guarantee. But equally the fact that that hasn't happened before (or at least in recent years) could also indicate it isn't that easy and clubs may need to adjust to League Two - it's not like every club has an equal chance of promotion so pure randomness dictates who gets promoted. Just trying to add a note of caution to some of the extreme optimism.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Crusoe

[Hometownclub]

1 hour ago, palmer1 said:

 

'despite playing several teams who were already on the beach'

 

I keep seeing this which makes me wonder... once a club are safe do their players no longer get their appearance bonus, goal bonus, win bonus etc. Do they no longer need to pay to win a new contract or a move?

 

We should have picked up the win but this on the beach line is complete bollocks!

It's not bollocks, it is noticeable that when teams become safe after being in relegation battles they take their foot off the gas (despite all the massive bonuses).

Latics under Sheridan the previous 2 seasons did it, when we were safe with a couple of games to go, its human nature.

 

Regardless of this , to not be able to win a single one of those last eight games when we weren't playing any of the top teams in the division is poor.

[palmer1]

3 minutes ago, Hometownclub said:

It's not bollocks, it is noticeable that when teams become safe after being in relegation battles they take their foot off the gas (despite all the massive bonuses).

Latics under Sheridan the previous 2 seasons did it, when we were safe with a couple of games to go, its human nature.

 

Regardless of this , to not be able to win a single one of those last eight games when we weren't playing any of the top teams in the division is poor.

 

would love to see some stats to back that up rather than just the standard line trotted out year on year. Back in the day we always finished the season strong even with nothing to play for.