Worcester Owl Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 5 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: Indeed a key point I see you made on the podcast today. For me, two standout points that Matt and Andy made on the podcast were (1) Matt saying we've had so many years of failure and negativity, and it's not going to be an overnight fix turning that culture around, (2) Andy saying he was calm about the Southend match, accepting that we are where we are - I get that. We have to accept our current status in order to start rebuilding on and off the pitch. I sound like a rank bad shrink, but some of our fans are still like Egyptian boats (in denial) and need to come to terms with that to move forward in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Worcester Owl said: I don't think Shez is getting a free ride though (and yes, no manager should or can in an ideal world) - plenty of criticism of him on here. All that those of us defending him are saying is, give him more time - let's see where we are 15-20 games in. If we're struggling then, I suspect he'll walk anyway. In the meantime let's have patience and at least a modicum of stability. We are 4 games into a 46 game season. Some of his critics have disqualified themselves from comment for me by describing this as the "binmen's league" with "pub teams". That kind of analysis can't be taken seriously. I suppose it depends on what constitutes as a good season on the pitch. I said all summer the squad isn’t good enough to challenge. But it looked like Shez had gone for hard working grafters, I expected us to compete and be hard to beat. But we’re the complete opposite- we’re very easy to play against. On the pod today, (thought you come across well by the way) people quite rightly talked about the culture- and I take the point that takes a lot longer than 4 games to put right. But surely you want some positive signs? I’m not even talking about results. But performances that say the players are at it. That they have bought into a system and team shape. I’m not asking for a lot, just solid fundamentals- which if done consistently will turn performances into results. Do you think Shez will have done enough 15 games in? Sounded like you had your doubts on the pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 Some really good viewpoints being put across on this thread and I keep swinging from one to the other. I know we shouldn't be panicking, we have seen the team have really bad starts to a season and still pull through. I'm just struggling to visualise the turnaround on the pitch, given the abject performances and can I reasonably expect new players to get the rest going? How many bad performances and losses on the trot would any of you be prepared to stomach before you say to Sheridan "It's time to go?" I would really begin to get worried if we lose another three with the same levels of perceived commitment so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 I'd want to see them getting about the pitch like Manchester United tonight, what a difference it makes. Surely its not too much to ask from our players no matter what technical deficiencies they have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 BP1960 has beaten me to it there. I do accept that the least we as fans expect is non-stop effort and commitment, as United (dare I say it) showed tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 2 hours ago, League one forever said: I suppose it depends on what constitutes as a good season on the pitch. I said all summer the squad isn’t good enough to challenge. But it looked like Shez had gone for hard working grafters, I expected us to compete and be hard to beat. But we’re the complete opposite- we’re very easy to play against. On the pod today, (thought you come across well by the way) people quite rightly talked about the culture- and I take the point that takes a lot longer than 4 games to put right. But surely you want some positive signs? I’m not even talking about results. But performances that say the players are at it. That they have bought into a system and team shape. I’m not asking for a lot, just solid fundamentals- which if done consistently will turn performances into results. Do you think Shez will have done enough 15 games in? Sounded like you had your doubts on the pod. Thanks - shame I didn’t come over well on the quiz then! Fair question re Shez - I really hope he can turn it round. I do worry whether the strain of last season has torpedoed him. Has he still got the energy and desire, I don’t know but I still would give him those 15-20 games to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 24 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: Thanks - shame I didn’t come over well on the quiz then! I think I’ve got about two right since they started it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 1 hour ago, BP1960 said: I'd want to see them getting about the pitch like Manchester United tonight, what a difference it makes. Surely its not too much to ask from our players no matter what technical deficiencies they have? 100% BP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 6 hours ago, League one forever said: Now things are thankfully very different. There’s is no interference. Morale off the pitch and around the club is good. Fans are back. The recent signings are all Shez’s. So here’s the problem- who now takes responsibility when the performances are abject? I’m talking about the free ride Shez (because he’s a legend) and the players are getting for non descriptive performances. You make some fair points. Surely, though, what has to be factored in is that Shez was recruiting under what must have been dire circumstances/dire budget as he was still operating under the previous fools. IF, for arguments sake, the takeover had fully taken place the day after the season ended (i.e. ground and football club all sorted) - and Frank then set a reasonable budget - do you think Shez's recruitment would have been the same? Or do you think we would have had a lot more quality? The timing of the takeover is hugely relevant in my opinion. It's probably been like firefighting ever since and, yes, we absolutely should be grateful we have a club now in safe hands. Once the firefighting is done (e.g. ground/land still being worked on) perhaps then proper attention can be paid to the playing budget etc. (which is, of course, important). Just think some people are being way too hasty in calling for change - our circumstances have been crazy - give them time to settle fully and then let's see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, wiseowl said: You make some fair points. Surely, though, what has to be factored in is that Shez was recruiting under what must have been dire circumstances/dire budget as he was still operating under the previous fools. IF, for arguments sake, the takeover had fully taken place the day after the season ended (i.e. ground and football club all sorted) - and Frank then set a reasonable budget - do you think Shez's recruitment would have been the same? Or do you think we would have had a lot more quality? The timing of the takeover is hugely relevant in my opinion. It's probably been like firefighting ever since and, yes, we absolutely should be grateful we have a club now in safe hands. Once the firefighting is done (e.g. ground/land still being worked on) perhaps then proper attention can be paid to the playing budget etc. (which is, of course, important). Just think some people are being way too hasty in calling for change - our circumstances have been crazy - give them time to settle fully and then let's see. You say he was operating under the previous regime- but was he when signings were being made? Do you think Sheron, Maynard, Porter, Hogan, etc sound like Mo or Shez signings? In fact, I think Shez has said a few times they’re his signings. Why would ALMO sanction 9 new signings when according to a lot of people we were days from liquidation? It doesn’t add up. My guess is, Shez was told of the takeover on the quiet and allowed to make signings. In a similar way to when AL didn’t own the badge but a load of #frenchlads started turning up at training. Your more general point about the repercussions of the takeover and the timing is what I don’t understand- because with things far more settled how does that affect tactics/team selection/team shape/player effort. The answer is- it doesn’t. Also, if Shez wasn’t to blame for abject performances last season, (with is understandable) how can he still not be to blame for abject performances with new owners? Look at his record. He’s on a bad run with his last few jobs, he pays no little or attention to video analysis, and has said himself on a podcast the way he talks to players is outdated. I think people (myself included) are that desperate for him to do well that it’s clouding judgement. Let’s hope I’m talking bollocks and he gets us going- but if he does, is that in spite of ‘a takeover’ or will that be because he’s a good manager whose proved me wrong? Fans can’t have it both ways. And Shez wouldn’t dream of mentioning the takeover, because he’s a class act who knows results are on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Worcester Owl said: I do worry whether the strain of last season has torpedoed him. Has he still got the energy and desire, I don’t know but I still would give him those 15-20 games to find out. I think he probably deserves 15 to 20 games but whether he’ll get it is any one’s guess. For me we have to show a gradual improvement through September and into October starting with the two games over the bank holiday weekend. We simply cannot afford to get involved in another relegation scrap early doors because unfortunately we still have a dozen players on the books from last season’s debacle and Saturdays squad contained 7 of them. Shez came in and worked a miracle to get us out of the bottom 2 almost immediately but the truth is over the last 16 games we managed only a meagre 9 points from a possible 48 and went down with a whimper!! These players brought in don’t look much of an upgrade so far and many of the teams in this division are probably on a par with League 2 anyway! It wouldn’t be so bad if we hadn’t been getting a rub of the green or the team’s tactics or formation needed a tweak or two but the truth is we’ve been completely outplayed, out fought, and outclassed in every game so far. I really hope Shez can deliver the goods but if I’m honest he’s already got a mountain to climb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 11 hours ago, oafc1955 said: I think he probably deserves 15 to 20 games but whether he’ll get it is any one’s guess. For me we have to show a gradual improvement through September and into October starting with the two games over the bank holiday weekend. We simply cannot afford to get involved in another relegation scrap early doors because unfortunately we still have a dozen players on the books from last season’s debacle and Saturdays squad contained 7 of them. Shez came in and worked a miracle to get us out of the bottom 2 almost immediately but the truth is over the last 16 games we managed only a meagre 9 points from a possible 48 and went down with a whimper!! These players brought in don’t look much of an upgrade so far and many of the teams in this division are probably on a par with League 2 anyway! It wouldn’t be so bad if we hadn’t been getting a rub of the green or the team’s tactics or formation needed a tweak or two but the truth is we’ve been completely outplayed, out fought, and outclassed in every game so far. I really hope Shez can deliver the goods but if I’m honest he’s already got a mountain to climb! Why would you wait 20 games if this is the case, I'd give him 10 games and that's it, we cannot afford to be fighting relegation at any stage this season as we won't retain any casual support, home performances/results have to improve dramatically, other than a 20 minute spell against Dorking when I thought they got caught up in the occasions themselves a little bit and afforded us too much respect we've been comprehensively outplayed, outthought and out battled, at some stage sentiment has to go out the window and the managers position becomes a business decision, of course it's too early and nobody is baying for blood but another couple of defeats/poor performances at the weekend against two of the poorer teams in my opinion could almost see his position untenable. Here's hoping for some change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 12 hours ago, League one forever said: You say he was operating under the previous regime- but was he when signings were being made? Do you think Sheron, Maynard, Porter, Hogan, etc sound like Mo or Shez signings? In fact, I think Shez has said a few times they’re his signings. Why would ALMO sanction 9 new signings when according to a lot of people we were days from liquidation? It doesn’t add up. My guess is, Shez was told of the takeover on the quiet and allowed to make signings. In a similar way to when AL didn’t own the badge but a load of #frenchlads started turning up at training. Your more general point about the repercussions of the takeover and the timing is what I don’t understand- because with things far more settled how does that affect tactics/team selection/team shape/player effort. The answer is- it doesn’t. Also, if Shez wasn’t to blame for abject performances last season, (with is understandable) how can he still not be to blame for abject performances with new owners? Look at his record. He’s on a bad run with his last few jobs, he pays no little or attention to video analysis, and has said himself on a podcast the way he talks to players is outdated. I think people (myself included) are that desperate for him to do well that it’s clouding judgement. Let’s hope I’m talking bollocks and he gets us going- but if he does, is that in spite of ‘a takeover’ or will that be because he’s a good manager whose proved me wrong? Fans can’t have it both ways. And Shez wouldn’t dream of mentioning the takeover, because he’s a class act who knows results are on him. Sick of hearing this we were days/hours away from liquidation. It's nonesense and quite frankly lie. In order to be liquidated there would have been a winding up order and a court date set, probably numerous. Bury for example were in court at least a dozen times which were all adjourned time and time again and were still never actually liquidated even after being expelled from the league. The previous regime were still paying wages etc and i really don't know why people are pedalling this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, PeteG said: Sick of hearing this we were days/hours away from liquidation. It's nonesense and quite frankly lie. In order to be liquidated there would have been a winding up order and a court date set, probably numerous. Bury for example were in court at least a dozen times which were all adjourned time and time again and were still never actually liquidated even after being expelled from the league. The previous regime were still paying wages etc and i really don't know why people are pedalling this story. You seem upset on the previous regimes behalf Pete/Mike. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 25 minutes ago, PeteG said: Sick of hearing this we were days/hours away from liquidation. It's nonesense and quite frankly lie. In order to be liquidated there would have been a winding up order and a court date set, probably numerous. Bury for example were in court at least a dozen times which were all adjourned time and time again and were still never actually liquidated even after being expelled from the league. The previous regime were still paying wages etc and i really don't know why people are pedalling this story. It's a bold statement here, Mike, but I actually agree with you. I know the situation was bleak, but I don't for one minute believe we were days from liquidation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: It's a bold statement here, Mike, but I actually agree with you. I know the situation was bleak, but I don't for one minute believe we were days from liquidation... I don't find it hard to believe that we were days from the process starting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I dont get why Mike and Barry are so pissed at Frank. AL chose to sell the club, no one held a gun to his head. All this about blitz stealing the ground. If AL truly beloved this, he would have gone through with the court case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 47 minutes ago, League one forever said: You seem upset on the previous regimes behalf Pete/Mike. . . He has a point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, disjointed said: He has a point though. Does he? I just remember him endlessly pontificating about things that in reality he knows very little about. The irony of him calling out others for what he does himself is amusing. It’s not about liquidation- it’s about ego and who thinks they have the ear of the inner workings at the club. It’s all a bit pathetic and pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I'll simplify what I want from the season. I want the sentiment that 'we've got our club back' to still being a valid one come May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 50 minutes ago, League one forever said: Does he? I just remember him endlessly pontificating about things that in reality he knows very little about. The irony of him calling out others for what he does himself is amusing. It’s not about liquidation- it’s about ego and who thinks they have the ear of the inner workings at the club. It’s all a bit pathetic and pointless. Of course he has a point, there would have been processes to follow, a winding up order could have been days away but that still could have been averted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 While we have our cynical heads on-does anybody really believe the sum of £12 million as the purchase price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, whittles left foot said: While we have our cynical heads on-does anybody really believe the sum of £12 million as the purchase price? No, not a chance however i did take the £12 million figure to possibly include the club (£1.5M), ground and land (£5m), clearing debt (£2m) and the rest as investment in finishing the NS, renovating the ground and running costs for the season with maybe some investment in the training facilities and maybe a little in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Figures in brackets are obviously my guestimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I also find it a little odd that the same people who were saying it AL's responsibility as the owner of the business to fund everything including investment in the squad out of his pocket are now saying it isn't Frank's responsibility to do that and we need to be self sufficient. I do tend to agree we need to work towards self sufficiency but also if the team is to progress on the pitch it does need immediate investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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