Londonboy Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Lots of views in different threads about young Harry, and why he's not getting an opportunity to show what he can do in the first team. Curle, Shez and Unsworth all seem to think his not ready yet which is interesting, and I can sort of see why. My personal view on him is that he's a very tallented young player who just needs experience in the "mans" game. It really is a big step up from youth team to first team football at NL level and above, and unless you have experienced it, it's hard to explain why. It's not necessarily the technical ability that's any different, and indeed sometimes the youth players have far more skills etc, but the physicality, the reduced time you are allowed on the ball, and how you contribute to the team when the opo have possession are biggest challenges. In our current situation I'd honestly send him out on loan until Christmas so he can understand more about how he can really influence games and up his match fitness levels, then give him a try in our starting 11 in selective games in January to see what he has learned and how he copes. The odd cameo appearance here and there isn't going to help him or us in the long term, and some of the players we currently have in the team will not really help him showcase what he can do if given a run in a struggling side now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, Londonboy said: Lots of views in different threads about young Harry, and why he's not getting an opportunity to show what he can do in the first team. Curle, Shez and Unsworth all seem to think his not ready yet which is interesting, and I can sort of see why. My personal view on him is that he's a very tallented young player who just needs experience in the "mans" game. It really is a big step up from youth team to first team football at NL level and above, and unless you have experienced it, it's hard to explain why. It's not necessarily the technical ability that's any different, and indeed sometimes the youth players have far more skills etc, but the physicality, the reduced time you are allowed on the ball, and how you contribute to the team when the opo have possession are biggest challenges. In our current situation I'd honestly send him out on loan until Christmas so he can understand more about how he can really influence games and up his match fitness levels, then give him a try in our starting 11 in selective games in January to see what he has learned and how he copes. The odd cameo appearance here and there isn't going to help him or us in the long term, and some of the players we currently have in the team will not really help him showcase what he can do if given a run in a struggling side now. I think you've summed it up well. He needs time to get stronger and develop movement off the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 40 minutes ago, Londonboy said: Lots of views in different threads about young Harry, and why he's not getting an opportunity to show what he can do in the first team. Curle, Shez and Unsworth all seem to think his not ready yet which is interesting, and I can sort of see why. My personal view on him is that he's a very tallented young player who just needs experience in the "mans" game. It really is a big step up from youth team to first team football at NL level and above, and unless you have experienced it, it's hard to explain why. It's not necessarily the technical ability that's any different, and indeed sometimes the youth players have far more skills etc, but the physicality, the reduced time you are allowed on the ball, and how you contribute to the team when the opo have possession are biggest challenges. In our current situation I'd honestly send him out on loan until Christmas so he can understand more about how he can really influence games and up his match fitness levels, then give him a try in our starting 11 in selective games in January to see what he has learned and how he copes. The odd cameo appearance here and there isn't going to help him or us in the long term, and some of the players we currently have in the team will not really help him showcase what he can do if given a run in a struggling side now. What level would you want to see him loaned to? Southend fans were raving about him after his cameo there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Unsworth is the first manager since Vaughan got his first appearance in the 1st team under Kewell that I though would give Vaughan more starts as I thought he would be looking to develop our youth players by giving them more minutes (especially with Shez's comments that he may have made a mistake by not giving him more game time). So it's interesting that Vaughan hasn't got a look in yet under DU. I'd have no problem with building the team around him with a view to him being a star player at this level next season, but it's almost a case of having an experienced and competent enough team around him that he can thrive and not get bogged down amongst the shit, which I'm not sure we currently have (and I'm sure some will say that we never will). In the meantime, I'm glad that Unsworth has created the B team to allow the likes of Luamba, Couto and Vaughan to get more regular minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Londonboy said: In our current situation I'd honestly send him out on loan until Christmas so he can understand more about how he can really influence games and up his match fitness levels, then give him a try in our starting 11 in selective games in January to see what he has learned and how he copes. That’s what the ‘B’ team is for, surely? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 26 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: That’s what the ‘B’ team is for, surely? The B team will only play a few friendlies this season. I suggest that the club join the Central league next season playing the likes of Huddersfield, Bolton Wigan and Wrexham reserves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlemoor Lad Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 The only way this club can survive is by developing the young guns and luckily we now have a manager that's been able to act upon it and has the know how to improve them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Our last three managers Curle, Shez, and Unsy are defensively minded and won’t play him or his type because they constantly tell us what he doesn’t do. Whilst completely ignoring what he does offer. His selection or not is indicative of the culture we have at club in the recent past and present, which is- focusing on how not to lose instead of how to win, hence he doesn’t play. If you set up like like the last 3 managers you have to win. Because without the result it’s pretty awful to watch. I’m praying that Unsy’s style morphs in time, so that Vaughan and his ilk can get a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 My view is until he's given a fair crack (which he deserves) then the debate will rumble on, now he's got his weaknesses for sure, he's a kid after all and we have plenty of other teams kids making their mistakes in our first team currently. You can see by the reaction he gets that our fans love to see him involved, he creates a buzz when he comes on and invariably makes a good contribution, always showing for the ball, always looking to make that forward pass, never goes missing in games or shirks it despite his size, Scunthorpe had a lad similar in stature Apter whose a year older, many would like to see him come here in January based on his appearance against us yet they are very similar players who offer much the same, players like these two don't get a chance higher up the ladder because modern coaches are obsessed with what a player offers out of possession, it's great when you have machines like Cristiano Ronaldo and the like but we've got a group of pub players who we got on a free transfer from the Old Swan, players are selected week in week out who offer nothing, surrender possession at will which kills you more than anything at this level. I know it's a novel idea but I wish we would just pick our best footballers, those who want the ball and are comfortable with it at their feet in tight areas, for me a midfield three of Rooney, Gardner and Vaughan would compliment each other with Sheron in behind holding, all four are good footballers and they'd give most teams the runaround, what's the alternative anyway? Get over run and played through at will like we do already with all these hardy pros playing in the middle like Cooper, Tollit and Burgess or five at the back where nobody takes responsibility as we pull everybody back and everyone tucks in and we then invite teams on to us? How's about us going out to win a game three good footballers in midfield and two fit strong strikers, let the opposition worry about us rather than damage limitation from the start?. Vaughan fits in to this for me, okay I get it there may be times he doesn't start but he shone in that B team which was full of players given plenty of opportunities, he needs a chance with us or we will lose him for nothing, there's a reason other teams want him and that's because he's a good footballer, it would be a real shame if he couldn't fulfill his potential with us and if Unsworth is again going to ostracize him let the lad go and let him carve out a career for himself. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 18 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: I know it's a novel idea but I wish we would just pick our best footballers, those who want the ball and are comfortable with it at their feet in tight areas, for me a midfield three of Rooney, Gardner and Vaughan would compliment each other with Sheron in behind holding, all four are good footballers and they'd give most teams the runaround, what's the alternative anyway? Get over run and played through at will like we do already with all these hardy pros playing in the middle like Cooper, Tollit and Burgess or five at the back where nobody takes responsibility as we pull everybody back and everyone tucks in and we then invite teams on to us? How's about us going out to win a game three good footballers in midfield and two fit strong strikers, let the opposition worry about us rather than damage limitation from the start?. 100% 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted October 12, 2022 Author Share Posted October 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Dave_Og said: What level would you want to see him loaned to? Southend fans were raving about him after his cameo there. I'd say NL North or South ideally Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted October 12, 2022 Author Share Posted October 12, 2022 4 hours ago, TheBigDog said: That’s what the ‘B’ team is for, surely? I don't think it's competitive enough, and there are enough meaningful fixtures to really develop him specifically. It's games against seasoned pro's which will help him and show us if he's really up to being a pivotal member of the team. I would hope the new coaching set up know what's the best way forward for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 5 hours ago, Dave_Og said: What level would you want to see him loaned to? Southend fans were raving about him after his cameo there. I think to say they were "raving" about him is very far fetched... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 I trust unsworth’s judgement. Nothing more to say 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 50 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: I think to say they were "raving" about him is very far fetched... Well, it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshgaz Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 He would play where Rooney plays, free role behind Fondop. I’ve seen Rooney twice and not seen anything to suggest he’s better than Vaughan. Very early days though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchierich Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Andy b said: I trust unsworth’s judgement. Nothing more to say cool, I’ve seen us twice with him in charge and the performance has been horrific in both…not enough for me to write him off but nothing yet to make me trust his judgement either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchierich Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Dave_Og said: Well, it isn't. It’s surely not so much that we are all raving about him it’s just that we have a horribly negative and lacklustre team who are getting out fought and out thought by the likes of Woking, Bromley and Maidenhead…..and yet HV, one of our own and a lad that tries to make positive things happen every time he plays, can’t get a kick….I am struggling to see what these modern Managers are afraid of and what we have to lose? Whatever they think it is, we have already bloody well lost it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, BP1960 said: The B team will only play a few friendlies this season. I suggest that the club join the Central league next season playing the likes of Huddersfield, Bolton Wigan and Wrexham reserves. The aspiration is sound. Edited October 13, 2022 by LaticsPete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 12 hours ago, Ritchierich said: It’s surely not so much that we are all raving about him it’s just that we have a horribly negative and lacklustre team who are getting out fought and out thought by the likes of Woking, Bromley and Maidenhead…..and yet HV, one of our own and a lad that tries to make positive things happen every time he plays, can’t get a kick….I am struggling to see what these modern Managers are afraid of and what we have to lose? Whatever they think it is, we have already bloody well lost it! It's a catch 22 situation...he has only played 82 mins of first team football in cameos this year, so it would be unfair to judge him either way on so little game time. It's also important not get blinded by the he's one of our own schenario. The best players should be starting full stop. I do wonder though why he's not getting more of an opportunity with us though based on our performances so far this season. If he is as good as many seem to think he is, why is this? Why is he still with us and not not moved on? I'd be pissed if I was him seeing loanees keep coming in, getting the opportunity and failing... Any why did Burnley not persue their interest in him last season, or anyone else for that matter? We were desperate for cash and AL would have taken any reasonable offer at the time? Surely he's been watched by loads of scouts over the past year or so and nothing concrete has come of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 We forget he's only 18yo, many players even at top academies don't get a first team run out until around 20yo and that's usually in the lesser cup games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 15 minutes ago, BP1960 said: We forget he's only 18yo, many players even at top academies don't get a first team run out until around 20yo and that's usually in the lesser cup games. Has anybody actually forgotten that...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 15 hours ago, Ritchierich said: cool, I’ve seen us twice with him in charge and the performance has been horrific in both…not enough for me to write him off but nothing yet to make me trust his judgement either I. That’s i. Trust his judgement. I have no reason not to and having been hand picked by owners and a board I trust my default is to trust him also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Lee Sinnott said: Has anybody actually forgotten that...? He's been around so long I think many have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 3 hours ago, BP1960 said: We forget he's only 18yo, many players even at top academies don't get a first team run out until around 20yo and that's usually in the lesser cup games. On the other hand, Graham Bell and Mike Lester were much more impressive in Divs 2& 3 at this age and went on to have careers at a higher level. Harry stands out because of the poor quality around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.