Harry Vaughan debate...

[Oafc11]

2 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

But there were then, what, 2 phases of play before the goal? Yes, Vaughan lost the ball (under severe pressure) but there was plenty of opportunity for others to defend subsequently. The Altrincham commentators were understandably thrilled by the strike, but there was no attempt to close the goalscorer down and I'm not sure Norman should have been beaten like that from so far out.

I wasn’t saying Harry was at fault for the goal, it was just the lack of urgency for the next 6 seconds after losing the ball, the body language and running was just a bit flat from him, if you watched the highlights, I agree after that there’s plenty more opportunities to tackle and clear the ball from the other dead legs.

[Londonboy]

49 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

But there were then, what, 2 phases of play before the goal? Yes, Vaughan lost the ball (under severe pressure) but there was plenty of opportunity for others to defend subsequently. The Altrincham commentators were understandably thrilled by the strike, but there was no attempt to close the goalscorer down and I'm not sure Norman should have been beaten like that from so far out.

You are correct...there was no closing down on number 16 before he scored....and Harry was the closest man to him and main culprit unfortunately.

 

Was it all his fault - No, we were far too deep and inviting pressure on ourselves

 

Could he and should he have worked harder to win the ball back, then close down before their scorer got his shot off - Yes absolutely.

[disjointed]

2 hours ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

Offers an insight into how we can improve 

Every game should be on a 24 hour loop

I think it's been done to death on how we can improve, number 1 is, get rid of the pile of shite that are masquerading as footballers. 

[Lags]

Harry was fresh and still didn't break a sweat to win the ball back. Whether or not he wasn't the only culprit is immaterial, the fact is he didn't fulfill his personal duties. You watch top stars in top sides bust a gut and this is what is required in any league. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Lags

[yarddog73]

19 minutes ago, Lags said:

Harry was fresh and still didn't break a sweat to win the ball back. Whether or not he wasn't the only culprit is immaterial, the fact is he didn't fulfill his personal duties. You watch top stars in top sides bust a gut and this is what is required in any league. 

I get that 100% but when their lad popped it in from 30 yards we had 8 men goal side including Rooney who was up to his usual trick of pointing at fresh air, every man was static nobody was bursting a gut which is in line with the way we've been approaching games recently, to single out Vaughan was just weird in my opinion.

[TheBigDog]

12 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

I get that 100% but when their lad popped it in from 30 yards we had 8 men goal side including Rooney who was up to his usual trick of pointing at fresh air, every man was static nobody was bursting a gut which is in line with the way we've been approaching games recently, to single out Vaughan was just weird in my opinion.

Immediately post match when emotions are running very high, Unsworth was speaking about the goal that won it for Altrincham.

Irrespective of how many others were goal-side, Vaughan was the nearest. Harry should have made more of an effort to close down - nothing weird in pointing that out.

 

I genuinely believe Vaughan will take on board the criticism and will learn from it. 
Expect him to start on Saturday

[yarddog73]

Just now, TheBigDog said:

Immediately post match when emotions are running very high, Unsworth was speaking about the goal that won it for Altrincham.

Irrespective of how many others were goal-side, Vaughan was the nearest. Harry should have made more of an effort to close down - nothing weird in pointing that out.

 

I genuinely believe Vaughan will take on board the criticism and will learn from it. 
Expect him to start on Saturday

Not a chance he will start, expect much the same, we will go for a 0-0 and probably get it, be lucky if he gets on the bench at weekend.

 

I find it weird because it was something he told us he wouldn't do but the two lads he singles out are the youngest, coincidence? Not for me and bad form.

[longtimeblue]

14 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

 

Expect him to start on Saturday

 

I'd be worried if he did... Not because I don't think he deserves a start but because I don't think Unsworth fancies him and it'd suggest he was out of ideas.

 

[disjointed]

2 hours ago, longtimeblue said:

 

I'd be worried if he did... Not because I don't think he deserves a start but because I don't think Unsworth fancies him and it'd suggest he was out of ideas.

 

This is a poor sample size, but last night Vaughan was poor, he gave the ball away a couple of times, now I know he didn't hide as some of the others did, I just don't think he is ready yet. Just my opinion and I'm sure others saw it different. 

[wiseowl]

3 hours ago, TheBigDog said:

Immediately post match when emotions are running very high, Unsworth was speaking about the goal that won it for Altrincham........ - nothing weird in pointing that out.

 

Just very poor management really. If Unsworth can't learn how to handle emotions for a post match interview after being beaten by The Dog and Duck, he'd better get looking for another job quickly. 

 

Of course Vaughan has made a mistake and needs to learn. That's for inside the dressing room though - or a one to one. If Unsworth wants to criticise mistakes, he might put aside ten minutes after most matches to explain his own shortcomings first - and then another couple of hours to go through the whole side one by one. To pick out a young kid like Vaughan publicly - plain silly.

Edited October 26, 2022 by wiseowl
spelling

[TheBigDog]

1 hour ago, wiseowl said:

Just very poor management really. If Unsworth can't learn how to handle emotions for a post match interview after being beaten by The Dog and Duck, he'd better get looking for another job quickly. 

 

Of course Vaughan has made a mistake and needs to learn. That's for inside the dressing room though - or a one to one. If Unsworth wants to criticise mistakes, he might put aside ten minutes after most matches to explain his own shortcomings first - and then another couple of hours to go through the whole side one by one. To pick out a young kid like Vaughan publicly - plain silly.

I think that you (and others) are making far too much of Unsworth’s comment. The manager was speaking about the goal we conceded, the goal that proved decision in our defeat and called it how he saw it.

 

Young kid? Now that’s plain silly.

[yarddog73]

2 hours ago, TheBigDog said:

I think that you (and others) are making far too much of Unsworth’s comment. The manager was speaking about the goal we conceded, the goal that proved decision in our defeat and called it how he saw it.

 

Young kid? Now that’s plain silly.

Problem I have with his comments is that what he says and what he does are two different things, probably the worst kind of boss to work for but each to their own.

[LaticsLegend]

Could he have done better for the goal? Yes.

 

But there has been tens of individual mistakes and personal shortfalls this season so far from the so called more experienced pro's and none have been called out specifically by the manager.

 

Bad form from Unsworth here, no need to single out Vaughan and name names cause he is a kid.

 

Unsworth needs to look closer to home at his regulars rather than call out a younger player who's expected to be perfect when coming on for 10 mins every other game at best.

[True Tic]

9 minutes ago, LaticsLegend said:

Could he have done better for the goal? Yes.

 

But there has been tens of individual mistakes and personal shortfalls this season so far from the so called more experienced pro's and none have been called out specifically by the manager.

 

Bad form from Unsworth here, no need to single out Vaughan and name names cause he is a kid.

 

Unsworth needs to look closer to home at his regulars rather than call out a younger player who's expected to be perfect when coming on for 10 mins every other game at best.

Exactly, not good form to single Vaughan out when a good portion of the rest of the squad would look more at home in a circus 

[True Tic]

The play and tactics I witnessed on Tuesday were dire, literally asking them to come at us. It’s pathetic. 

[Ritchierich]

I think Unsworth intended to call out Vaughan as he knows fans have been questioning why he wasn’t playing and that he might be part of the solution to our total lack of creativity and forward thinking…….so, DU finally brings him on for a reasonable amount of time to try and influence a game and then highlights his lack of defensive ability 

 

I think it’s pretty pathetic tbh especially when the rest of the muppets have consistently given the ball away and failed to put in meaningful challenges every single bleedin game!
 

A team is the sum of it’s parts but you also have to play to individual strengths and build around one or two key players and a tactical plan or ethos…..ours seems to be hold what we have…I.e. 0-0 but we are not good enough at the back to do that so all we end up with is the negative shambles we have seen in almost every game.

 

Vaughan may not be the messiah but he, or a player like him, is what we should be building around…creative midfielders like that almost certainly need someone alongside them doing the dirty work.

 

Anyway, this is all pointless, Unsworth is another product of the modern academy system like Southgate, overthinking everything, scared to try and win games and having to manage over coached players who are also scared to take risks having been told the only thing that matters is keep hold of the ball.

[TheBigDog]

22 minutes ago, Ritchierich said:

Unsworth is another product of the modern academy system like Southgate, overthinking everything, scared to try and win games and having to manage over coached players who are also scared to take risks having been told the only thing that matters is keep hold of the ball.

If only we could…

[League one forever]

16 hours ago, TheBigDog said:

Young kid? Now that’s plain silly.

He is a young kid. . 

[TheBigDog]

1 hour ago, League one forever said:

He is a young kid. . 

 

If Harry Vaughan wants to play in the first team then I suggest we stop calling him a ‘young kid’ - it does him no favours whatsoever. 

He’s Eighteen and a half years old - he ain’t a kid anymore

 

Didn’t someone once say: “If he’s good enough then he’s old enough”?

 

In my opinion Vaughan is good enough and maybe treating him like a kid is holding back his development. 
The manager points out a mistake that is indicative of one aspect of Vaughan’s play and gets pilloried for it by some.

 

If Vaughan has anything about him, he will take the criticism on board and come back stronger. 

And I believe he will.

[League one forever]

34 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

 

If Harry Vaughan wants to play in the first team then I suggest we stop calling him a ‘young kid’ - it does him no favours whatsoever. 

He’s Eighteen and a half years old - he ain’t a kid anymore

 

Didn’t someone once say: “If he’s good enough then he’s old enough”?

 

In my opinion Vaughan is good enough and maybe treating him like a kid is holding back his development. 
The manager points out a mistake that is indicative of one aspect of Vaughan’s play and gets pilloried for it by some.

 

If Vaughan has anything about him, he will take the criticism on board and come back stronger. 

And I believe he will.

You talk like he’s a seasoned pro, I don’t think he’s had one 90 minutes across his few appearances. He’s on the fringes, because he’s a kid who the manager doesn’t trust- because he’s fixated with what he doesn’t do. He conveniently omits that once again, he was only player to carry the ball. I’m so sick (not aimed at you) of people saying what he doesn’t do. He should never be in that side as a dominant ball winner/defensive role. Unsy decided to pick him out after very little football and doesn’t once mention Rooney (a seasoned pro)  who might as well be not be on the pitch. 
 

If he played 50 games by his age, then I’d take your point. But he’s a kid who no one seems willing to give the confidence to grow into regular- and take the warranted criticism that position deserves. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by League one forever

[TheBigDog]

3 minutes ago, League one forever said:

But he’s a kid who no one seems willing to give the confidence to grow into regular- and take the warranted criticism that position deserves. 

And that’s my point exactly @League one forever

 

Stop treating him like a kid and he will grow in confidence - I would be willing to bet that Vaughan himself is not in the least fazed by the ‘criticism’.

[whittles left foot]

6 minutes ago, League one forever said:

But he’s a kid who no one seems willing to give the confidence to grow into

And isn't that suspicious?

Plenty of fans who see the odd cameo appearance and think he is an answer BUT yet to have a manager who thinks he can do a job.

[True Tic]

3 minutes ago, whittles left foot said:

And isn't that suspicious?

Plenty of fans who see the odd cameo appearance and think he is an answer BUT yet to have a manager who thinks he can do a job.

I think the main problem with Vaughan is he very small and slight. I believe there are too many big lads in football which make him look even smaller. I think his skill level is a cut above anyone else in this squad (not difficult I know) the problem mainly lies in his physicality or lack of it . He’s like tinker bell 

[BP1960]

42 minutes ago, League one forever said:

You talk like he’s a seasoned pro, I don’t think he’s had one 90 minutes across his few appearances. He’s on the fringes, because he’s a kid who the manager doesn’t trust- because he’s fixated with what he doesn’t do. He conveniently omits that once again, he was only player to carry the ball. I’m so sick (not aimed at you) of people saying what he doesn’t do. He should never be in that side as a dominant ball winner/defensive role. Unsy decided to pick him out after very little football and doesn’t once mention Rooney (a seasoned pro)  who might as well be not be on the pitch. 
 

If he played 50 games by his age, then I’d take your point. But he’s a kid who no one seems willing to give the confidence to grow into regular- and take the warranted criticism that position deserves. 

 

You are correct, he's 18yo, David Eyres who I imagine was very lightweight as a teenager didn't blossom as a FL player until he was 25yo. 

We will regret it in future years if he moves to another club.

 

[League one forever]

42 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

Stop treating him like a kid and he will grow in confidence - I would be willing to bet that Vaughan himself is not in the least fazed by the ‘criticism’.

If you think publicly criticising a young fringe player is building his character and thus his confidence, then we’ll have to agree to disagree. 
 

By all means dig him out in the dressing room- or even better pull him in for a one to one and tell them him straight. But in public is a cheap shot, especially when there are players far far more experienced than him who haven’t got the bollocks he’s got to want the ball under pressure. . And escape any public criticism.