MATCH: vs Wrecsam (A) 06/11/22 FA Cup 1st Rd 12.30 🏆

[BP1960]

9 hours ago, Can Neil Redfearn Do It said:

 

Poor team performances easily give an impression of inadequate players. We've seen plenty look crap in a Latics shirt but do well elsewhere.

 

Clearly the first team needs investment but the current lot should be doing better, no doubt about it.

 

It's more to do with the tactics DU has persevered with far too long. Players are so deep they are getting in each others way with no outlet.

It will be unbelievable if he persists with that formation against Barnet. 

[TheBigDog]

9 hours ago, Can Neil Redfearn Do It said:

All things considered Unsworth is underperforming. Indisputable.
 

We've barely even had good spells in games. I've not given up on him just yet but we need to see some ideas and some signs of improvement quickly, otherwise we'll need to part ways by Christmas.

It is undisputed that Unsworth faces a huge task to improve the performance of the players. Too many are playing poorly - either down to technical deficiencies or a severe lack of confidence or, in many cases, both.

 

His number one response to sorting the team's poor results is that he needs to bring in new faces.

 

Yes he talks about working hard on the training ground but that is clearly not working, and I question if he actually believes that he can get more from the current squad.

 

To a certain extent, the lack of quality in the squad he inherited will buy him time.

However, what is evident to all is that he and his coaching team are having little impact in improving the teams he has put out so far. Fondop may be the one exception.

 

There is huge debate among the fan base as to the merits of his preferred starting formation - I don’t believe I have the knowledge to determine which is best for us. What I do know however is that the way he does set us up is not working.

 

What I also know is that the fans are losing confidence in the team’s ability to win games. Ahead of the next home game against Barnet, how many genuinely believe that we will see any improvement? 
 

There is talk of a couple of new players coming in this week. We also have Hope back and Hogan close to a return.

 

The question for me is simple:

If results and performances do not improve, just how long do we give him?

[True Tic]

6 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

It is undisputed that Unsworth faces a huge task to improve the performance of the players. Too many are playing poorly - either down to technical deficiencies or a severe lack of confidence or, in many cases, both.

 

His number one response to sorting the team's poor results is that he needs to bring in new faces.

 

Yes he talks about working hard on the training ground but that is clearly not working, and I question if he actually believes that he can get more from the current squad.

 

To a certain extent, the lack of quality in the squad he inherited will buy him time.

However, what is evident to all is that he and his coaching team are having little impact in improving the teams he has put out so far. Fondop may be the one exception.

 

There is huge debate among the fan base as to the merits of his preferred starting formation - I don’t believe I have the knowledge to determine which is best for us. What I do know however is that the way he does set us up is not working.

 

What I also know is that the fans are losing confidence in the team’s ability to win games. Ahead of the next home game against Barnet, how many genuinely believe that we will see any improvement? 
 

There is talk of a couple of new players coming in this week. We also have Hope back and Hogan close to a return.

 

The question for me is simple:

If results and performances do not improve, just how long do we give him?

The looming problem of another potential relegation makes the job more urgent for Unsworth, if we weren’t so close to the bottom four and actually looking like we are improving then I wouldn’t be so worried. But we are near the bottom four and we are definitely not improving. Two or three more losses and I would say we are at yet another crossroads 

[welshgaz]

14 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

It is undisputed that Unsworth faces a huge task to improve the performance of the players. Too many are playing poorly - either down to technical deficiencies or a severe lack of confidence or, in many cases, both.

 

His number one response to sorting the team's poor results is that he needs to bring in new faces.

 

Yes he talks about working hard on the training ground but that is clearly not working, and I question if he actually believes that he can get more from the current squad.

 

To a certain extent, the lack of quality in the squad he inherited will buy him time.

However, what is evident to all is that he and his coaching team are having little impact in improving the teams he has put out so far. Fondop may be the one exception.

 

There is huge debate among the fan base as to the merits of his preferred starting formation - I don’t believe I have the knowledge to determine which is best for us. What I do know however is that the way he does set us up is not working.

 

What I also know is that the fans are losing confidence in the team’s ability to win games. Ahead of the next home game against Barnet, how many genuinely believe that we will see any improvement? 
 

There is talk of a couple of new players coming in this week. We also have Hope back and Hogan close to a return.

 

The question for me is simple:

If results and performances do not improve, just how long do we give him?

I think your suggestion of Christmas is fair. 

[Lags]

16 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

It's more to do with the tactics DU has persevered with far too long. Players are so deep they are getting in each others way with no outlet.

It will be unbelievable if he persists with that formation against Barnet. 

 

Yet DU repeatedly states he's not asking the players to be so deep, quite the opposite. I have plenty of time for your input but how many times can you post this same message in every thread?. I get it it, you don't think DU is the man to take us forward. I would be interested in your assessment of the individual players, their ability and current form.

[JoeP]

19 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

It's more to do with the tactics DU has persevered with far too long. Players are so deep they are getting in each others way with no outlet.

It will be unbelievable if he persists with that formation against Barnet. 

 

The goals we let in against Wrexham were a disgrace.

 

The first one - about 8 of our players seemed to be holding hands on the near post.  If we've got so many players back, why was there no one within a country mile of the chap on the edge of the box, which allowed him to have the shot?

 

There was also 7 players around Mullins for the second - how he's been allowed to turn back and shoot is a mystery.

 

The third one was just a complete and utter cock-up..

[BP1960]

2 minutes ago, Lags said:

 

Yet DU repeatedly states he's not asking the players to be so deep, quite the opposite. I have plenty of time for your input but how many times can you post this same message in every thread?. I get it it, you don't think DU is the man to take us forward. I would be interested in your assessment of the individual players, their ability and current form.

 

I didn't say he couldn't take us forward with better players.

IMO the players are frightened of breaking from the shape of system asked of them, which is for 7 even 8 to sit deep.

Norman, best we have, 

new right back needed urgently.

Centre backs...why play 3 when 2 aren't naturals in that position.

Central midfielders, too many who are defensively minded.

Rooney should be playing just behind a front 2.

Tollitt as an out and out left winger and a similar player wide right, Burgess probably the only one who can play there.

In short 442 will suit the players a lot better and give them more freedom of expression.

 

 

 

 

.

[Lags]

4 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

I didn't say he couldn't take us forward with better players.

IMO the players are frightened of breaking from the shape of system asked of them, which is for 7 even 8 to sit deep.

Norman, best we have, 

new right back needed urgently.

Centre backs...why play 3 when 2 aren't naturals in that position.

Central midfielders, too many who are defensively minded.

Rooney should be playing just behind a front 2.

Tollitt as an out and out left winger and a similar player wide right, Burgess probably the only one who can play there.

In short 442 will suit the players a lot better and give them more freedom of expression.

 

 

 

 

.

 

So, you don't believe DU when he states he's not asking the players to sit deep?

Regarding the centre backs, could that be due to injuries?

the recent midfields included Tollitt and Rooney, are they defensively minded players?

Totally agree about the right back, I cannot believe we've persevered with Clarke

Prior to Timmy coming in who should have been the top two?. If we are relying on Luamba to be one then we are doomed.  

[Can Neil Redfearn Do It]

9 minutes ago, Lags said:

 

So, you don't believe DU when he states he's not asking the players to sit deep?

Regarding the centre backs, could that be due to injuries?

the recent midfields included Tollitt and Rooney, are they defensively minded players?

Totally agree about the right back, I cannot believe we've persevered with Clarke

Prior to Timmy coming in who should have been the top two?. If we are relying on Luamba to be one then we are doomed.  

 

Well DU doesn't stand on the touchline shouting to them to push up, does he? 

 

And if Clarke was playing fullback he'd be doing better.

[Lags]

14 minutes ago, Can Neil Redfearn Do It said:

 

Well DU doesn't stand on the touchline shouting to them to push up, does he? 

 

And if Clarke was playing fullback he'd be doing better.

 

I've no idea what DU is telling them, most the match I watch the pitch (glutton for punishment). However, I've seen numerous interviews where DU states he's not asking the players to sit deep. I also know that usually when I side is weaker than the opposition, the deeper and deeper they drop.

 

Clarke couldn't pass a ball whether full back or wing back.

[disjointed]

1 minute ago, Lags said:

 

I've no idea what DU is telling them, most the match I watch the pitch (glutton for punishment). However, I've seen numerous interviews where DU states he's not asking the players to sit deep. I also know that usually when I side is weaker than the opposition, the deeper and deeper they drop.

 

Clarke couldn't pass a ball whether full back or wing back.

TBF it's not only Clarke who can't pass a ball, until they learn to start finding a team mate we are constantly going to be on the back foot. 

[BP1960]

33 minutes ago, Lags said:

 

So, you don't believe DU when he states he's not asking the players to sit deep?

Regarding the centre backs, could that be due to injuries?

the recent midfields included Tollitt and Rooney, are they defensively minded players?

Totally agree about the right back, I cannot believe we've persevered with Clarke

Prior to Timmy coming in who should have been the top two?. If we are relying on Luamba to be one then we are doomed.  

 

Tollitt and Rooney aren't defensively minded so asking them to drop deep only frustrates them. Take the shackles off the players is my advice to DU.

[yarddog73]

39 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

I didn't say he couldn't take us forward with better players.

IMO the players are frightened of breaking from the shape of system asked of them, which is for 7 even 8 to sit deep.

Norman, best we have, 

new right back needed urgently.

Centre backs...why play 3 when 2 aren't naturals in that position.

Central midfielders, too many who are defensively minded.

Rooney should be playing just behind a front 2.

Tollitt as an out and out left winger and a similar player wide right, Burgess probably the only one who can play there.

In short 442 will suit the players a lot better and give them more freedom of expression.

 

 

 

 

.

Tollitt can't play as an out and out winger, he's got one trick admittedly a half decent one of cutting in from the left and getting a decent shot away, any team whose watched us knows not to show him inside. 

 

Rooney still isn't fit enough to play as a 10, not sure he ever will be again, admittedly he's probably our only centre mid whose attacking minded but he isn't showing what he's capable of and he's the type of player who'd thrive in a team with a more positive mindset.

 

For me the teams a bit bitty, too many players young and old with major weaknesses in their game, we've suffered again from poor recruitment and instead of having one decent keeper covered by a youth player we'll probably end up with three very average keepers in the end costing twice as much money.

 

We have a problem at centre half yet have had Hogan, McGahey, Sheron, Maynard, Carragher, Okagbue, Angol play there to name but a few along with Sutton to come back, that's some selection given the division we are in. I can't have it that there isn't a decent partnership in there.

 

Rightback is a major issue and Clarke has been too bad to be true, cannot play for us again purely because of the mistakes he makes and the pressure he puts us under, he kills any momentum we build up in games and I've never seen him show any desire other than the header at Alty to join in an attack, a wing back he is not.

 

Midfield is the issue though Cooper, Threkeld, Sheron as holding midfielders are shite, slow, limited and even at the level we are at are ordinary, you think that one would be an easy fix though given one is on a short term deal and I'd drop him off in Yeovil tomorrow, ones on loan and the other should be used as defensive cover or at best a CDM in front of a back 4, Rooney we've discussed, Couto is only playing for obvious reasons as he is Evo stick north standard at best, Vaughan can't be trusted (even though defenders who are paid to defend get away with doing what he was slated for week in week out) he needs to go out on loan, Burgess and Tollitt are in and out of games but are effectively the same player, too weak for CM but not enough about them to play out wide, go missing in games and are effectively a luxury we can't afford. Gardner way good enough for this level but it looks like he's going to be in and out of the team which is a shame, Stobbs, Windass, Wellens just not up to it. To be fair to Sheron he's had a wobble the last couple of weeks because he is literally being asked to play every position in Unsworths back 7, add to the his confidence went after losing the armband which I'm not sure is great management, he isn't a talker as such but still deserves a little bit more respect from that, I like him and he hasn't hidden like some of the shithouses we have on the books.

 

If we play this 'preferred' 4-3-3 when Hogan is back I'd like to see us play a front three of Hope, Fondop, Abraham.

 

Back 4 of Kilner, Hogan, Sheron, Kitching.

 

And a whole new midfield, which I've been asking for since I watched us pre season and every team below us played through us like a knife through butter.

 

Unsworth needs January as well as the summer and he should get it, we have enough particularly with Hogan back to hold our own from Christmas on, it may get a little bit worse before then but come January we will be fine, one negative though is that Tyler Onyango who we were due to get in from Everton in January is now going to be staying with Fleetwood, same with Dobbin at Derby I've heard which is disappointing. 

[Lags]

8 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

Tollitt and Rooney aren't defensively minded so asking them to drop deep only frustrates them. Take the shackles off the players is my advice to DU.

 

Again....who is telling them to sit deep?. You keep on saying they are being asked, the manager is on record it's not him asking.

[Dave_Og]

3 minutes ago, Lags said:

 

Again....who is telling them to sit deep?. You keep on saying they are being asked, the manager is on record it's not him asking.

 

in his interviews DU keeps saying that he wants then to play with freedom.  Either he's constantly lying, or they are not following his plan/instructions

[BP1960]

7 minutes ago, Lags said:

 

Again....who is telling them to sit deep?. You keep on saying they are being asked, the manager is on record it's not him asking.

 

He sets them deep from the start so it's no coincidence they stay there throughout is it?

[Lags]

1 minute ago, Dave_Og said:

 

in his interviews DU keeps saying that he wants then to play with freedom.  Either he's constantly lying, or they are not following his plan/instructions

 

My guess would be they are not following instructions or more likely incapable of doing so. As I mentioned on an earlier post, teams that are inferior to the opposition and are being played off the park tend to sit deeper and deeper as the match wears on. I think this is happening.

I actually think half the side picked are good enough to hold their own in this league played in the correct positions, but half doesn't make a team. Perhaps when all fit, DU could field a side that could win games (not consistently to march up to the play off's from here) and with some quality additions do much better.

[Lags]

8 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

in his interviews DU keeps saying that he wants then to play with freedom.  Either he's constantly lying, or they are not following his plan/instructions

 

He says not. Anyway, we've done that now. I've asked a few times do you not believe DU, you've not answered that.

[Dave_Og]

Just now, Lags said:

 

He says not. Anyway, we've done that now. I've asked a few times do you not believe DU, you've not answered that.

 

I've missed them if you have.    If he's constantly lying he'll be found out soon enough and won't last long so I suppose my default position is that I believe him until shown otherwise

[Lags]

1 minute ago, Dave_Og said:

 

I've missed them if you have.    If he's constantly lying he'll be found out soon enough and won't last long so I suppose my default position is that I believe him until shown otherwise

 

That question was asked of BP Dave and not you. I quoted the wrong post sorry.

[BP1960]

39 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

in his interviews DU keeps saying that he wants then to play with freedom.  Either he's constantly lying, or they are not following his plan/instructions

 

I think he's  just bewildered by what he's been dealt with and the players are bewildered by the coaching too.

As a fan I'm bewildered by it all.

 

 

[Londonboy]

2 hours ago, yarddog73 said:

Tollitt can't play as an out and out winger, he's got one trick admittedly a half decent one of cutting in from the left and getting a decent shot away, any team whose watched us knows not to show him inside. 

 

Rooney still isn't fit enough to play as a 10, not sure he ever will be again, admittedly he's probably our only centre mid whose attacking minded but he isn't showing what he's capable of and he's the type of player who'd thrive in a team with a more positive mindset.

 

For me the teams a bit bitty, too many players young and old with major weaknesses in their game, we've suffered again from poor recruitment and instead of having one decent keeper covered by a youth player we'll probably end up with three very average keepers in the end costing twice as much money.

 

We have a problem at centre half yet have had Hogan, McGahey, Sheron, Maynard, Carragher, Okagbue, Angol play there to name but a few along with Sutton to come back, that's some selection given the division we are in. I can't have it that there isn't a decent partnership in there.

 

Rightback is a major issue and Clarke has been too bad to be true, cannot play for us again purely because of the mistakes he makes and the pressure he puts us under, he kills any momentum we build up in games and I've never seen him show any desire other than the header at Alty to join in an attack, a wing back he is not.

 

Midfield is the issue though Cooper, Threkeld, Sheron as holding midfielders are shite, slow, limited and even at the level we are at are ordinary, you think that one would be an easy fix though given one is on a short term deal and I'd drop him off in Yeovil tomorrow, ones on loan and the other should be used as defensive cover or at best a CDM in front of a back 4, Rooney we've discussed, Couto is only playing for obvious reasons as he is Evo stick north standard at best, Vaughan can't be trusted (even though defenders who are paid to defend get away with doing what he was slated for week in week out) he needs to go out on loan, Burgess and Tollitt are in and out of games but are effectively the same player, too weak for CM but not enough about them to play out wide, go missing in games and are effectively a luxury we can't afford. Gardner way good enough for this level but it looks like he's going to be in and out of the team which is a shame, Stobbs, Windass, Wellens just not up to it. To be fair to Sheron he's had a wobble the last couple of weeks because he is literally being asked to play every position in Unsworths back 7, add to the his confidence went after losing the armband which I'm not sure is great management, he isn't a talker as such but still deserves a little bit more respect from that, I like him and he hasn't hidden like some of the shithouses we have on the books.

 

If we play this 'preferred' 4-3-3 when Hogan is back I'd like to see us play a front three of Hope, Fondop, Abraham.

 

Back 4 of Kilner, Hogan, Sheron, Kitching.

 

And a whole new midfield, which I've been asking for since I watched us pre season and every team below us played through us like a knife through butter.

 

Unsworth needs January as well as the summer and he should get it, we have enough particularly with Hogan back to hold our own from Christmas on, it may get a little bit worse before then but come January we will be fine, one negative though is that Tyler Onyango who we were due to get in from Everton in January is now going to be staying with Fleetwood, same with Dobbin at Derby I've heard which is disappointing. 

Decent post that 

[Lee Sinnott]

Reminder that I'm not advocating sacking this manager, but I keep seeing that he needs two transfer windows. Not sure why he needs transfer windows when we don't have to adhere to them anyway...

[peanuts2]

1 hour ago, Lee Sinnott said:

Reminder that I'm not advocating sacking this manager, but I keep seeing that he needs two transfer windows. Not sure why he needs transfer windows when we don't have to adhere to them anyway...

We dont but unfortunatly the only players available are out of contract or loans untill the tranfer window in the efl opens there will then be a churn of players available throughout football as teams strengthen and players are pushed out as surpluss loans end etc 

[League one forever]

5 hours ago, TheBigDog said:

The question for me is simple:

If results and performances do not improve, just how long do we give him?

Quite. 
 

The dilemma I have is- 

 

Sack him at Xmas and the club look silly without giving him the full use of a transfer window. 
 

Or 

 

Go against your better judgement and give him Jan to alter the squad- but then you have to give him at least feb to see if it gels. But if we haven’t drastically improved by that stage we’re really fucked. 
 

Xmas is 6/7 games away- if hasn’t won at least 2/3 or them, that would be 1 win in 16/17 games which would his position untenable and he would have to go, despite how the club looks.