oafc1955 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, wiseowl said: Question is, does Unsworth's C.V. back that up? Having seen DU first hand, I thought I`d go away and do some reading about his time as Academy Director, manager of U23s (with whom he won the title twice) etc. at Everton. Quite sobering reading and often not very flattering tbh. I`ve read lots (and obviously there are some differing opinions) but GENERALLY the consensus is that he was a bit of a "dinosaur" (ring any bells?) and there was a lack of talent coming through to the 1st team. A particular theme seems to have been his "inflexibility" - he stuck to one style, with no plan B. Jeez - if I wasn't worried before, I sure am having done this research. "Despite receiving criticism from many quarters for the dearth of young players breaking into the first team squad, he has always had the strong backing of club chairman Bill Kenwright." "The probability is he was 'asked to leave' as part of a wide-ranging change in the backroom staff behind the scenes. It was long overdue, the number of young players ready to challenge for a first-team place is negligible." "Very limited player who lacked ambition and given the lack of anything coming from the U23s a coach who way outstayed his welcome for nearly 10 years. Good luck to the bloke but a change in that department is way way overdue." You’re another who constantly likes sticking the knife in!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, oafc1955 said: You’re another who constantly likes sticking the knife in!! Knife in to what exactly?, I've backed him on here I hope he succeeds but I can't take another couple of years of lost opportunity particularly as the fanbase is about to dwindle again, as most reasonable Oldham fans I'll say it as I see it, if you want to sugar coat what is currently going on then that's fine but I'm struggling to find just one positive on the playing side, doesn't it worry you that a third of all fans are already happy for him to go?. That's alarming given where are at and before you ask I voted to give him more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 37 minutes ago, wiseowl said: Question is, does Unsworth's C.V. back that up? Having seen DU first hand, I thought I`d go away and do some reading about his time as Academy Director, manager of U23s (with whom he won the title twice) etc. at Everton. Quite sobering reading and often not very flattering tbh. I`ve read lots (and obviously there are some differing opinions) but GENERALLY the consensus is that he was a bit of a "dinosaur" (ring any bells?) and there was a lack of talent coming through to the 1st team. A particular theme seems to have been his "inflexibility" - he stuck to one style, with no plan B. Jeez - if I wasn't worried before, I sure am having done this research. "Despite receiving criticism from many quarters for the dearth of young players breaking into the first team squad, he has always had the strong backing of club chairman Bill Kenwright." "The probability is he was 'asked to leave' as part of a wide-ranging change in the backroom staff behind the scenes. It was long overdue, the number of young players ready to challenge for a first-team place is negligible." "Very limited player who lacked ambition and given the lack of anything coming from the U23s a coach who way outstayed his welcome for nearly 10 years. Good luck to the bloke but a change in that department is way way overdue." And this is from where? I'm struggling to believe he was crap at his job and stayed in for that many years. Weren't Chelsea bidding £60m for Gordon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Yarddog73…..…..Admittedly, performances and results have been dire but he’s part of a complete new backroom staff that inherited an absolute pile of crap. I’m under no illusions he has to do better, much better, however, he’s followed just about the worst owner’s we’ve ever had and absolutely every aspect of the football club was a total piss boil! He has to be given enough time to turn it around surely…..he’s been here 8 weeks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 It has been an unbelievably underwhelming start for him but we've hardly been signing the creme de la creme so can't go along with the idea he's had everything he's wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 6 hours ago, JoeP said: Comparing Unsworth and Royle is like comparing cheese and road signs. How do we know, because Unsworth has been dire in his first 11 games (like Royle was - even though Royle wasn’t actually as bad..) that Unsworth will follow the same path? I would say there’s zero evidence of him - or anyone - doing that. Joe Royle was a one off. If we’re making ridiculous comparisons - Uni Emre takes over a struggling Villa side and wins his first two games. That’s how you do a new manager bounce! The story goes that Royle, on his first day, had bailiffs in his office trying to take his desk. I don’t see any of that sort of stuff happening, which suggests the club is in a better place, so surely Unsworth should be doing better? The off field stuff is progressing nicely in spite of what’s gone before, so why isn’t the on field stuff? Where’s the evidence against Unsworth? Kind of answered your own question - appalling tactics, not getting the best out of what he’s got and is taking us backwards. What’s the solution? Personally wouldn’t give Unsworth much more time. His replacement should involve an application process, interviews and if that isn’t fruitful - go for a young, hungry manager like Greening, who has proven successful in the lower leagues. ”I know the fans expectations and they want to hear we’re going to win the league”. Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave…that couldn’t be further from the truth. We want stability, with an iota of progress. That is not a big ask and our expectations really aren’t that great. Bit of a lack of awareness there. We know how bad the club’s been run - we’ve seen it first hand. Hope Darren gets to have a go on Laticsmind, by the way? Bailliffs dont take desks, they take things they can sell so id call that tale bollocks for a start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 5 hours ago, PeteG said: Unsworth's remit was to keep us up? Shez can only have been expected to do the same then surely, which begs the question as to why he was sacked when we nearly half way? Someone is talking bollox. When he came in he said there was no reason why we shouldn't still be gunning for promotion (or words to that effect) and he's said words to that effect again at least once since. Now survival has always been his remit? And still those who claim to not be concerned by his complete lack of impact will "love his honesty". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 31 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: And this is from where? Someone he met in the pub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 10 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: Bailliffs dont take desks, they take things they can sell so id call that tale bollocks for a start In 1982? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 7 hours ago, BP1960 said: By the looks of it the club will soon have 40 full time players on the books, add in the management, coaching and other staff the wage bill must be astronomical. Does anyone know how this is funded? 7 hours ago, oafcmetty said: I heard something about a wealthy man taking over? Might just have been a dream though. 7 hours ago, deyres42 said: We are in a pickle if he doesn't. These 40+ poor players must be costing as much, if not more, than just 18 or 20 better ones that could have mounted a promotion challenge. But those of us who'd wrongly hoped for such solid, sensible recruitment were shot down and told there was no money. And even if there was, being frivolous with it would be a terrible thing. Shittest frivolity ever this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, JoeP said: In 1982? We had computers and typewriters in 1982 which where still more valuable than firewood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 12 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: When he came in he said there was no reason why we shouldn't still be gunning for promotion (or words to that effect) and he's said words to that effect again at least once since. Now survival has always been his remit? And still those who claim to not be concerned by his complete lack of impact will "love his honesty". Aye. In his first interview It was something like- I’ve seen what can happen when clubs get on a roll, and with the size of this club if we can get on a run there’s no reason why we can’t be challenging. Cut to his interview at the weekend with Dave- when in reply to the question - does slipping into the bottom four concern you? He said- (paraphrasing) No, not at the minute, but I’m honest enough to know that was always going to be the case this year and fans don’t wanna hear it, but it was stop the rot this year. Now, I know fans don’t wanna hear that, they want to hear we’re going to win the league but when you’ve had the disappointments this club has had, you have to draw the line in the sand, and the line in sand is that we stay in the division and my remit hasn’t changed since I came in, which is to keep us in this division. Dave- have you got a message for the fans? (Again Paraphrasing) Yeah I have, I know the expectations of the fans is massive and that’s why I came to mange the club but as Oldham fan if you don’t know where we are in terms of league position and team can’t then they’re not being honest. My sense of the situation, is that the owners did say just keep us up- but he came in saying things his ego/ability can’t cash- and he’s had to row back now say- we are where I fully expected us to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, League one forever said: Dave- have you got a message for the fans? (Again Paraphrasing) Yeah I have, I know the expectations of the fans is massive and that’s why I came to mange the club but as Oldham fan if you don’t know where we are in terms of league position and team can’t then they’re not being honest. I nearly fell off the treadmill when he said that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Another couple of points. Matt said- it’s easy to criticise but fans can’t articulate any solutions. Sorry- but hiring or firing the manager is nothing to do with the fans, and it’s not up to us to come up with solutions. All any of us can do, is call it as we see it- as the lads went on to do in the pod. Andy said- I do think things will get better, but I accept it’s a bit blind faith without any hard evidence to back it up. But equally I don’t think those saying he should go have got any hard evidence- eh? 1 win 11. Hardly scored any goals. Very defensive must not lose football. The lack of any type of performance (bar the 1st half against Wrexham) Multiple signings making little difference. An inflexibility to change formations or tactics. Id say there is overwhelming evidence he is really really struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: I nearly fell off the treadmill when he said that.... I know, I was really pleased to be educated on how shit we are. . Any chance you could make us a bit less shit Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPAS Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 28 minutes ago, League one forever said: Andy said- I do think things will get better, but I accept it’s a bit blind faith without any hard evidence to back it up. But equally I don’t think those saying he should go have got any hard evidence- eh? 1 win 11. Too small a sample size to draw a firm conclusion and to be able to cite it as evidence...... IMO. See my explanation of well run businesses vs a poorly run business for why I think - with time - it'll come good. Despite the fact his large & bloated squad isn't awash with quality, he will also have to show some humility and accept, despite all the hype & his impressive qualifications, his lack of experience at this level is presently holding him (and us) back, as he isn't getting the best out of the players he does have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, BPAS said: Too small a sample size to draw a firm conclusion and to be able to cite it as evidence...... IMO. See my explanation of well run businesses vs poorly run business for why I think - with time - it'll come good. Despite the fact his large & bloated squad isn't awash with quality, he will also have to show some humility and accept, despite all the hype & his impressive qualifications, his lack of experience at this level is presently holding him (and us) back, as he isn't getting the best out of the players he does have. I think the model Frank and Darren are trying to be build is excellent, and they are building an environment where a good manager will absolutely thrive. The question isn’t about the business (as I believe as you do we’ll ultimately be successful) the question is do we have the right person in a key position to execute want the owners are trying to build. . . Torally agree with your last paragraph, but going off his pressers I highly doubt he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPAS Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, League one forever said: I think the model Frank and Darren are trying to be build is excellent, and they are building an environment where a good manager will absolutely thrive. The question isn’t about the business (as I believe as you do we’ll ultimately be successful) the question is do we have the right person in a key position to execute want the owners are trying to build. . . Torally agree with your last paragraph, but going off his pressers I highly doubt he will. He’s in the key position because he fits with what the owners are trying to build….. ie they believe he has all the attributes to be a success….. I’m going to trust their judgement - and assume they’ll help him (like any good employer does) to be a success - before I conclude they are wrong after only 2 months and 11 games….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, BPAS said: He’s in the key position because he fits with what the owners are trying to build….. ie they believe he has all the attributes to be a success….. I’m going to trust their judgement - and assume they’ll help him (like any good employer does) to be a success - before I conclude they are wrong after only 2 months and 11 games….. Come on. . he didn’t even interview. He’s in the key position because Joe knows and rates him- fine. Moreover he isn’t primarily employed as a sporting director type to build the club. He’s employed to get results- any managers currency is results. . . I have never known the bar to be set so low for a manager Andy. I’m not asking him for a top half finish, I’m asking for him to be judged on what he has done since he came in, not what he might do in 6/12 months time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 1 hour ago, League one forever said: An inflexibility to change formations or tactics. Didn't we change at the weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPAS Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 33 minutes ago, League one forever said: Come on. . he didn’t even interview. He’s in the key position because Joe knows and rates him- fine. Moreover he isn’t primarily employed as a sporting director type to build the club. He’s employed to get results- any managers currency is results. . . I have never known the bar to be set so low for a manager Andy. I’m not asking him for a top half finish, I’m asking for him to be judged on what he has done since he came in, not what he might do in 6/12 months time. I don’t care he didn’t interview….. I’ve appointed people who I didn’t interview because I knew they were well suited to a role. It’s been 11 games Chris. Unlike some (I don’t mean you btw) I wasn’t calling for Shez to be binned after a similar number….. but equally, seeing as we did (bin Shez) and appointed DU with a longer term vision in mind….. I think he needs to be given more time than 2 months & 11 games for his approach/methods (& for him to learn what does/doesn’t work at this level) to take effect. If we’re still in the shit after January, then he’ll be in trouble….. but until then, I’m sick to death of short-termism. We’ve been demanding long term thinking for ages….. we’ve now got it. Back it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south east latic Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, BPAS said: I don’t care he didn’t interview….. I’ve appointed people who I didn’t interview because I knew they were well suited to a role. It’s been 11 games Chris. Unlike some (I don’t mean you btw) I wasn’t calling for Shez to be binned after a similar number….. but equally, seeing as we did (bin Shez) and appointed DU with a longer term vision in mind….. I think he needs to be given more time than 2 months & 11 games for his approach/methods (& for him to learn what does/doesn’t work at this level) to take effect. If we’re still in the shit after January, then he’ll be in trouble….. but until then, I’m sick to death of short-termism. We’ve been demanding long term thinking for ages….. we’ve now got it. Back it. The problem is that we have been SO bad under Unsworth. Not just a bit bad, but really, really bad. I think we’ve made the wrong appointment but I do think he needs a little longer for that to be proved beyond doubt. I’d give him the next run of games taking us to Jan and if we’re still watching the same rubbish, I’d be making a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPAS Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, south east latic said: The problem is that we have been SO bad under Unsworth. Not just a bit bad, but really, really bad. I think we’ve made the wrong appointment but I do think he needs a little longer for that to be proved beyond doubt. I’d give him the next run of games taking us to Jan and if we’re still watching the same rubbish, I’d be making a change. Hi Alex. I know. I agree. It’s been dreadful. However I’m prepared (for now) to put that down to his lack of experience at this level, working with footballers that don’t possess the ability he’s used to, as opposed to his ability as a coach, a motivator and a man manager. He needs to learn quickly and adjust his approach to get some results. Those around him can help him achieve this too. It doesn’t have to be all on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 17 minutes ago, BPAS said: I don’t care he didn’t interview….. I’ve appointed people who I didn’t interview because I knew they were well suited to a role. It’s been 11 games Chris. Unlike some (I don’t mean you btw) I wasn’t calling for Shez to be binned after a similar number….. but equally, seeing as we did (bin Shez) and appointed DU with a longer term vision in mind….. I think he needs to be given more time than 2 months & 11 games for his approach/methods (& for him to learn what does/doesn’t work at this level) to take effect. If we’re still in the shit after January, then he’ll be in trouble….. but until then, I’m sick to death of short-termism. We’ve been demanding long term thinking for ages….. we’ve now got it. Back it. Again Andy- you’re conflating a manager with the overall vision. I am fully behind the vision- in time I’d like to see us go the way of a Swansea or Brighton where the incumbent manager has to fit what the culture and style of play the club wants. However in each of those cases if the manager doesn’t cut the mustard he is accountable- as he should be. I respect your view, and do understand where your coming from- I just happen to disagree on the Unsworth bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 1 hour ago, League one forever said: Come on. . he didn’t even interview. I didnt interview with my company that I have been with for over 5 years I was given a chance through knowing a director Ive since been promoted and are quite well thought of (I think) Interviews arent the be all and end all amd can leave you up with a Darren Kelly or someone like in our company who stays at home whilst asking site teams to say "if anyone asks, ive been on site today" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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