BPAS PODCAST: 14th Nov '22, S3:E15: Darren Royle Part 1

[GlossopLatic]

18 hours ago, LightDN123 said:

The lack of no new manger bounce was a concern to me at the start, it’s not always certain but it happens in most cases. I got my head around the fact we wouldn’t see one and it’s fine, but the games that followed have all been terrible and that can’t continue. I’d give him until New Year’s Day. Things are going to look grim if we lose both them games to Notts County. 

 

I think new manager bounce comes along when you get a group of underperforming players which inevitably leads to a manager getting the boot.

 

The new manager comes in freshens it up slightly the underperforming players suddenly regain motivation or feel liberated and start performing and results improve. Aston Villa is probably a good example right now.

 

We didn't get any new manager bounce because that was those players playing at their best and in some cases still are playing at their best. Still I would have hoped that the new signings would have made more of an impact by now.

[LightDN123]

2 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

I think new manager bounce comes along when you get a group of underperforming players which inevitably leads to a manager getting the boot.

 

The new manager comes in freshens it up slightly the underperforming players suddenly regain motivation or feel liberated and start performing and results improve. Aston Villa is probably a good example right now.

 

We didn't get any new manager bounce because that was those players playing at their best and in some cases still are playing at their best. Still I would have hoped that the new signings would have made more of an impact by now.

That’s fair enough, I don’t agree that this is these players playing at the best of their ability though so should have had some form of bounce. 

[Lee Sinnott]

17 minutes ago, PeteG said:

Have OASF told us which board member said that? In fact do we get any updates from OASF with regard to meetings they have with the club or do we only know that because 1 OASF director leaked it on Twitter?

Fortunately enough, Mike, I asked the question at the time. 

 

However, in addition to the comment made by board members to the Trust, I think Mr Rothwell Snr said the same thing on Granada Reports...

[Lee Sinnott]

13 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

I think new manager bounce comes along when you get a group of underperforming players which inevitably leads to a manager getting the boot.

 

The new manager comes in freshens it up slightly the underperforming players suddenly regain motivation or feel liberated and start performing and results improve. Aston Villa is probably a good example right now.

 

We didn't get any new manager bounce because that was those players playing at their best and in some cases still are playing at their best. Still I would have hoped that the new signings would have made more of an impact by now.

We had a group of bad players last season and Sheridan managed to provide a "new manager bounce..."

[oafc1955]

6 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

We had a group of bad players last season and Sheridan managed to provide a "new manager bounce..."

Well that confirms it then….most of this season’s lot had already ‘bounced’.

[GlossopLatic]

14 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

We had a group of bad players last season and Sheridan managed to provide a "new manager bounce..."

 

What happened after that?

[GlossopLatic]

26 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

That’s fair enough, I don’t agree that this is these players playing at the best of their ability though so should have had some form of bounce. 

 

I agree we should have seen better than what we have done.

[deyres42]

12 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

What happened after that?

The only man who could save us lost 11 in 14...

[PeteG]

36 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

Fortunately enough, Mike, I asked the question at the time. 

 

However, in addition to the comment made by board members to the Trust, I think Mr Rothwell Snr said the same thing on Granada Reports...

Did you get an answer regarding minutes, would be nice for trust members to get updates now and again.

[Lee Sinnott]

24 minutes ago, PeteG said:

Did you get an answer regarding minutes, would be nice for trust members to get updates now and again.

The answer was in the reply to me if you click on the tweet...

[mick26]

5 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

The answer was in the reply to me if you click on the tweet...

Please can you unblock me so I can see it as well Paddy? @MhLatic26

(Unless of course I've been blocked on purpose!)

[PeteG]

9 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

The answer was in the reply to me if you click on the tweet...

So Brad took the minutes but the others don't agree with them? Therefore the trust hasn't bothered to update it's membership? Or have the club asked them not to put that out as they have now decided the remit is to stay up?

[Chaddyexile84]

13 minutes ago, PeteG said:

So Brad took the minutes but the others don't agree with them? Therefore the trust hasn't bothered to update it's membership? Or have the club asked them not to put that out as they have now decided the remit is to stay up?

 

Bradley shouldnt be taking his own pulse never mind minutes

 

Totally unsuitable for trust rep and his mother doesn't help his cause on Twitter

[Lee Sinnott]

19 minutes ago, mick26 said:

Please can you unblock me so I can see it as well Paddy? @MhLatic26

(Unless of course I've been blocked on purpose!)

I can't see a particular reason why I have...

[Chaddyexile84]

7 hours ago, wiseowl said:

What a surprise - Chaddyexile with a cheap shot.

 

 

Oh give over, you used to always refer to conversations in a pub so when you put forward an argument with zero evidence to back it up then of course its going to be laughed at.

 

Unsworth thought of a dinosaur at Everton but been there how many years?

 

Enjoy your sabatical 

[mick26]

3 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

I can't see a particular reason why I have...

Don't think you'll find anything as I don't put too much on twitter - unless you thought the MH was your mate Mike!

[Lee Sinnott]

11 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

 

Oh give over, you used to always refer to conversations in a pub so when you put forward an argument with zero evidence to back it up then of course its going to be laughed at.

 

Unsworth thought of a dinosaur at Everton but been there how many years?

 

Enjoy your sabatical 

I must admit I have heard some ropey reviews from a few people at Everton about him. But on the flip side, I've heard a couple of Latics players say how brilliant he is, although that was early on in his reign...

[mcfluff1985]

7 hours ago, wiseowl said:

What a surprise - Chaddyexile with a cheap shot.

 

Nobody is allowed a contrary view on here are they? (at least not without being jumped on by the usual few).

 

I`m debating on here no more after this - it's futile. I`ll put it once and for all as I see our present predicament :-

 

1) Eternally grateful for the takeover - been to every game home and away, bar the televised one, and happy "off the field" will be fine and dandy. Thank you Frank - sincerely.

2) FR knows precious little about football and has put a team together under JR etc. to look after that side of the business.

3) JR and DU have been friends for a long time. They even took on the role of caretaker manager together for one game at the end of an Everton season.

4) DU had, for some time, been viewed as "outdated" and surplus to requirement at Everton and, eventually, they got rid as a result of a re-structure (April 2022 from memory).

5) DU had been seen at very close quarters by both Preston and Everton in caretaker manager roles - and neither saw fit to offer him the job full time (only they will know why not).

6) The stars aligned and his good friend, JR, offered him his first full time role as manager - and then he brought other staff with him.

7) We are paying an absolute small fortune in wages as a result.

8  We are playing worse now than ever we did under the supposed failure that was John Sheridan. The performance at Altrincham was the worst I have witnessed in my lifetime - we've since been beaten by Halifax, Wrexham and Barnet - in those 4 games we have scored 1 goal. 

9) Fans are already starting to vote with their feet.

10) People like me are negative or "sticking the knife in" just for expressing a view online (and I never boo players etc.).

 

I adore this football club - but I don't suffer fools gladly - and I think we've got one. No more contributions from me (awaits the glee from usual suspects) - I`ll still attend, cheer and support - whilst watching us wither on the vine (or pitch) if Unsworth stays in charge much longer. Bye.

 

 

7 hours ago, JoeP said:

 

Found this quote in The Athletic article interesting:

 

“A lot of people have asked why I’ve dropped down to the fifth tier but I don’t see it like that. I had five or six opportunities. I always felt like I was pushing it and maybe it was me driving the talks, but here I felt wanted straight away."

 

That doesn't sound to me like he had "five or six opportunities" at all.  Some initial enquiries maybe, but it sounds like the other clubs chose not to pursue it. As you say - only they will know why not!

 

 

Just to point out that Oldham saw John Sheridan closely after his stint (one game) as caretaker and decided not to give him the job...

[Wardie]

What I take from the interview with DR is just how much work has been done and is ongoing to get the club to be the best it can be as a business and as a facility and hub within the community. It seems there has been a vast amount of hard work and emotional investment as well as the funding.

The club is two entities, the business and the product, separate but linked. DR doesn't sound like a fool to me, he knows all too well what the fans want and another relegation would practically untie all the hard graft undertaken by himself, the Rothwell's, his father and all concerned.

Unsworth and Co. need to assess the situation and act accordingly to get the players to perform and achieve. Only the board have any idea how long he will get, I don't believe they would keep him on regardless, as no man is bigger than the club.

[wiseowl]

9 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

but where did you get your research from?  An Everton message board?  I think we could all agree that message boards are not necessarily the font of all knowledge?

 

3 hours ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

 

Oh give over, you used to always refer to conversations in a pub so when you put forward an argument with zero evidence to back it up then of course its going to be laughed at.

 

Unsworth thought of a dinosaur at Everton but been there how many years? 

Merely in answer to the 2 people above, one of the best sources is a respected Everton journalist called Patrick Boyland. Here's an extract of what he wrote in April 2022. Any alarm bells in there at all? I am done now, honestly, just wanted to complete the loop here - thank you.

 

"So far, Everton have been good to their word. The latest ripple was felt this week with the news that David Unsworth would be stepping down from his roles as academy director and under-23 manager with immediate effect. For so long seen as part of the furniture at Everton, Unsworth is said to have begrudgingly left to “pursue his dream of becoming a first-team manager”.

Unsworth vacated his role as under-23 manager with three games of the season to play — somewhat curious timing with the side’s status in the top division at that point still on the line (the 2-0 win over Chelsea on Friday under John Ebbrell took them a big step closer to safety). (Side Note - Hands up if you previously knew Unsworth was on the verge of managing Everton's under 23 team's relegation?)

His No 2 Ebbrell will temporarily fill the gap until a permanent solution is found, creating some much-needed continuity in the short term. Crucially, though, the former academy director will no longer play any part in enacting the change to come at academy level. That responsibility will now fall to others. In truth, Unsworth always retained a focus on achieving his ultimate goal of one day managing Everton. He came close to doing so in 2018, interviewing for the role after Ronald Koeman’s departure, but was overlooked in favour of first Sam Allardyce and then Marco Silva.

Cutting the umbilical cord since has been tough, even after the desperate blow of missing out on his dream job. That same year, he spoke to Oxford United about their vacant manager’s position, only to decide to remain at Goodison.

The events of the past week represent a much-needed clean break for him as well. It’s a chance to show what he can do away from Everton.

It is understood that some of those close to the set-up still harbour reservations over Everton’s loan procedures, something they hope Thelwell will look to address. Equally, parents and agents are also said to have previously had concerns over the style of play at under-23 level. The Athletic reported earlier this season that Brands had mandated a move to a more progressive 4-2-3-1 and bring Unsworth’s side in line with the first team — something that was long overdue.

The last few months saw Everton under-23s lapse back into bad old habits: five in defence, a reactive style and huge gaps between the various sectors of the pitch. Signs of necessary pragmatism or a “results-focused” approach? For a section of those in attendance, it was often the latter.

For some, Unsworth’s methods were seen as increasingly old school, reflecting a bygone time where tough love was the order of the day. These latest developments at least offer the opportunity of a reset for all concerned, including Unsworth."

[LightDN123]

9 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

 

Merely in answer to the 2 people above, one of the best sources is a respected Everton journalist called Patrick Boyland. Here's an extract of what he wrote in April 2022. Any alarm bells in there at all? I am done now, honestly, just wanted to complete the loop here - thank you.

 

"So far, Everton have been good to their word. The latest ripple was felt this week with the news that David Unsworth would be stepping down from his roles as academy director and under-23 manager with immediate effect. For so long seen as part of the furniture at Everton, Unsworth is said to have begrudgingly left to “pursue his dream of becoming a first-team manager”.

Unsworth vacated his role as under-23 manager with three games of the season to play — somewhat curious timing with the side’s status in the top division at that point still on the line (the 2-0 win over Chelsea on Friday under John Ebbrell took them a big step closer to safety).

His No 2 Ebbrell will temporarily fill the gap until a permanent solution is found, creating some much-needed continuity in the short term. Crucially, though, the former academy director will no longer play any part in enacting the change to come at academy level. That responsibility will now fall to others. In truth, Unsworth always retained a focus on achieving his ultimate goal of one day managing Everton. He came close to doing so in 2018, interviewing for the role after Ronald Koeman’s departure, but was overlooked in favour of first Sam Allardyce and then Marco Silva.

Cutting the umbilical cord since has been tough, even after the desperate blow of missing out on his dream job. That same year, he spoke to Oxford United about their vacant manager’s position, only to decide to remain at Goodison.

The events of the past week represent a much-needed clean break for him as well. It’s a chance to show what he can do away from Everton.

It is understood that some of those close to the set-up still harbour reservations over Everton’s loan procedures, something they hope Thelwell will look to address. Equally, parents and agents are also said to have previously had concerns over the style of play at under-23 level. The Athletic reported earlier this season that Brands had mandated a move to a more progressive 4-2-3-1 and bring Unsworth’s side in line with the first team — something that was long overdue.

The last few months saw Everton under-23s lapse back into bad old habits: five in defence, a reactive style and huge gaps between the various sectors of the pitch. Signs of necessary pragmatism or a “results-focused” approach? For a section of those in attendance, it was often the latter.

For some, Unsworth’s methods were seen as increasingly old school, reflecting a bygone time where tough love was the order of the day. These latest developments at least offer the opportunity of a reset for all concerned, including Unsworth."
 

 

 

 

 

 

That really is worrying, literally a carbon copy of what we are seeing here. Which makes me think the way we play is not going to change and it’s going to be dull for as long as he is here. 

[longtimeblue]

51 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

 

Merely in answer to the 2 people above, one of the best sources is a respected Everton journalist called Patrick Boyland. Here's an extract of what he wrote in April 2022. Any alarm bells in there at all? I am done now, honestly, just wanted to complete the loop here - thank you.

 

"So far, Everton have been good to their word. The latest ripple was felt this week with the news that David Unsworth would be stepping down from his roles as academy director and under-23 manager with immediate effect. For so long seen as part of the furniture at Everton, Unsworth is said to have begrudgingly left to “pursue his dream of becoming a first-team manager”.

Unsworth vacated his role as under-23 manager with three games of the season to play — somewhat curious timing with the side’s status in the top division at that point still on the line (the 2-0 win over Chelsea on Friday under John Ebbrell took them a big step closer to safety). (Side Note - Hands up if you previously knew Unsworth was on the verge of managing Everton's under 23 team's relegation?)

His No 2 Ebbrell will temporarily fill the gap until a permanent solution is found, creating some much-needed continuity in the short term. Crucially, though, the former academy director will no longer play any part in enacting the change to come at academy level. That responsibility will now fall to others. In truth, Unsworth always retained a focus on achieving his ultimate goal of one day managing Everton. He came close to doing so in 2018, interviewing for the role after Ronald Koeman’s departure, but was overlooked in favour of first Sam Allardyce and then Marco Silva.

Cutting the umbilical cord since has been tough, even after the desperate blow of missing out on his dream job. That same year, he spoke to Oxford United about their vacant manager’s position, only to decide to remain at Goodison.

The events of the past week represent a much-needed clean break for him as well. It’s a chance to show what he can do away from Everton.

It is understood that some of those close to the set-up still harbour reservations over Everton’s loan procedures, something they hope Thelwell will look to address. Equally, parents and agents are also said to have previously had concerns over the style of play at under-23 level. The Athletic reported earlier this season that Brands had mandated a move to a more progressive 4-2-3-1 and bring Unsworth’s side in line with the first team — something that was long overdue.

The last few months saw Everton under-23s lapse back into bad old habits: five in defence, a reactive style and huge gaps between the various sectors of the pitch. Signs of necessary pragmatism or a “results-focused” approach? For a section of those in attendance, it was often the latter.

For some, Unsworth’s methods were seen as increasingly old school, reflecting a bygone time where tough love was the order of the day. These latest developments at least offer the opportunity of a reset for all concerned, including Unsworth."

 

Interesting. I took it all on face value that everything was rosey in his previous job. Apparently not.

 

It shouldn't change anything in terns of how long he gets to turn it around here but it's relevant. 

[yarddog73]

I called him tactically inept weeks ago and I stand by it, early on he was out thought by near on every manager he faced and it only appears to be getting worse, he doesn't react either which you can put down to him being one of a couple of things he's either stubborn or clueless, hopefully not both. Something has to give because anyone paying to watch us at the minute needs help.

[JoeP]

9 hours ago, wiseowl said:

Cutting the umbilical cord since has been tough, even after the desperate blow of missing out on his dream job. That same year, he spoke to Oxford United about their vacant manager’s position, only to decide to remain at Goodison.

 

 

"Hello, Mr Kenwright? It's Rhino. BLOODY HELL, IT'S DAVE! Dave Unsworth! Just to let you know, I've just spoken to Oxford and have told them I won't be taking their manager's job and I'll be staying with you at Goodison. Why are you crying?"

 

 

[TheBigDog]

9 hours ago, wiseowl said:

These latest developments at least offer the opportunity of a reset for all concerned, including Unsworth."

A reset - it’s not happened yet has it?