BPAS PODCAST: 20th Mar '23, S3E30: Apocalypse Now

[BPAS]

Another Southern Leisure Centre ticked off, another point on the board and more reasons to either find the positives depending on your perspective. We, amongst other things, the new pitch deal, should we entertain napalm dollars and the insignificant return of Uncle Knobhead. Plus music from this week's fan guest.

 

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Title music is by Manchester DJ and producer Starion find out more at ⁠www.redlaserrecords.bandcamp.com

 

 

 

[basilrobbie]

Very entertaining this week. Some reactions :

 

1. I think you making the top seven next season will be an achievement. I don't think anybody coming down will worry you, and probably not the four coming up either. But I would have Barnet, Chesterfield (or Notts), Boreham, Bromley, Dagenham and Solihull ahead of you as likely candidates. And there are a few others like Woking, Southend, Alty and Halifax who could be anything. 

 

2. The "Fair Game" sustainability stuff is interesting. But the truth is that very few football clubs in the top five tiers are genuinely sustainable in the way we normally understand it.  None of that will change unless the big questions around revenue, and who gets it,  are addressed. I think FG are tinkering around the edges a bit, albeit for good reasons.

 

3. Why stop at napalm? You could probably have quite an impact at some of those Southern Leisure Centres with a machine gun.

[Lukers1]

9 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

Very entertaining this week. Some reactions :

 

1. I think you making the top seven next season will be an achievement. I don't think anybody coming down will worry you, and probably not the four coming up either. But I would have Barnet, Chesterfield (or Notts), Boreham, Bromley, Dagenham and Solihull ahead of you as likely candidates. And there are a few others like Woking, Southend, Alty and Halifax who could be anything. 

 

2. The "Fair Game" sustainability stuff is interesting. But the truth is that very few football clubs in the top five tiers are genuinely sustainable in the way we normally understand it.  None of that will change unless the big questions around revenue, and who gets it,  are addressed. I think FG are tinkering around the edges a bit, albeit for good reasons.

 

3. Why stop at napalm? You could probably have quite an impact at some of those Southern Leisure Centres with a machine gun.

I can assure you the club is looking higher and that.

 

Since the beginning of January our form I think is top 5 and we are now talking points off teams in the top 7. 
 

We are the leading team from scoring goals at set pieces which shows the hours on the training ground has paid off.

 

Give the management a good pre season, couple of strong signings and I’d I expect to be in the top four all of next season.

[basilrobbie]

33 minutes ago, Lukers1 said:

I can assure you the club is looking higher and that.

 

Since the beginning of January our form I think is top 5 and we are now talking points off teams in the top 7. 
 

We are the leading team from scoring goals at set pieces which shows the hours on the training ground has paid off.

 

Give the management a good pre season, couple of strong signings and I’d I expect to be in the top four all of next season.

Fingers crossed. 

[Lukers1]

4 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

Fingers crossed. 

I hope so, plus we are learning the art of shithousery which is very important in this league.

[oafc1955]

52 minutes ago, Lukers1 said:

I can assure you the club is looking higher and that.

Says who?

[nzlatic]

2 hours ago, basilrobbie said:

 

3. Why stop at napalm? You could probably have quite an impact at some of those Southern Leisure Centres with a machine gun.

Especially at Wealdstone away next Tuesday. Doesn’t that ground have its own gun turret?

[Hemel latic]

I'm intrigued as to who the players on long term contracts are that we might be moving on close season. We don't really have any that many on 2 year plus contracts. Tollitt and Shelton perhaps? I'll be disappointed if Alex Reid moves on, he looks a player.

 

Hoping it will be fascinating and exciting seeing who we bring in over the summer. 

[Dave_Og]

35 minutes ago, Hemel latic said:

I'm intrigued as to who the players on long term contracts are that we might be moving on close season. We don't really have any that many on 2 year plus contracts. Tollitt and Shelton perhaps? I'll be disappointed if Alex Reid moves on, he looks a player.

 

Hoping it will be fascinating and exciting seeing who we bring in over the summer. 

 

Gardner, Burgess, Windass

[Hemel latic]

Ah, I may have misunderstood. I thought players with two years remaining on their contract. I did think Andy and Matt were initimating there might be some surprises. Windass has never played for the first team, Burgess hasn't featured since the very early days of Unsworth so neither would be a surprise. I still think Dan Gardner would be a useful squad player if fully fit, but there's the rub, can he get fully fit? 

[BPAS]

1 hour ago, Dave_Og said:

Gardner, Burgess, Windass

 

1 hour ago, Hemel latic said:

Ah, I may have misunderstood. I thought players with two years remaining on their contract. I did think Andy and Matt were initimating there might be some surprises.....

 

We weren't referring to Gardner, Burgess, Windass..... or Leutwiler, McGahey, J. Clarke for that matter..... we were referring to players considered part of the first team set up now......

[Steve_R]

7 minutes ago, BPAS said:

 

 

We weren't referring to Gardner, Burgess, Windass..... or Leutwiler, McGahey, J. Clarke for that matter..... we were referring to players considered part of the first team set up now......

Presuming it’s not someone who the new recruitment set up has signed, that leaves Norman, Hogan, Sheron, Tollitt and Fondop I think. As three of them have been offered new deals recently that leaves Sheron and Hogan, although I’m not sure how long they signed up for, unless I’ve missed someone.

[Lee Sinnott]

28 minutes ago, Steve_R said:

Presuming it’s not someone who the new recruitment set up has signed, that leaves Norman, Hogan, Sheron, Tollitt and Fondop I think. As three of them have been offered new deals recently that leaves Sheron and Hogan, although I’m not sure how long they signed up for, unless I’ve missed someone.

Tollitt nearly went to another National League team last week...

[Hemel latic]

23 minutes ago, Steve_R said:

Presuming it’s not someone who the new recruitment set up has signed, that leaves Norman, Hogan, Sheron, Tollitt and Fondop I think. As three of them have been offered new deals recently that leaves Sheron and Hogan, although I’m not sure how long they signed up for, unless I’ve missed someone.

There's Benny Couto, but would hope we'd keep and develop him. He's got a great left foot and still very young.

 

I understand the argument that some of the players we have signed this season were the best we could sign at that time, and required decent contracts, because of the position we were in. When we are looking to sign players for the new season we will be in a far better position and that should enable us to fish in a wider talent pool. 

 

I won't be displeased if we keep everyone that's under contract for 23/24 and 24/25.

 

However, I will be disappointed if we don't build on the squad we already have. New signings should be better than the players we already have, or able to compete for a place in the first team.  

[Hemel latic]

1 minute ago, Lee Sinnott said:

Tollitt nearly went to another National League team last week...

That doesn't surprise me. I presumed that the contract extension in late 2022 was because another club was sniffing around. He was our best player before Christmas. People focus on his weaknesses but he's good when he drives at the opposition and seven goals is a good return.

 

Was it Torquay by any chance given they signed another wide player from us?

[GlossopLatic]

I think one of the main problems we've had which alot of us will recognise is the amount of player churn over the last decade plus. Its been too high and has resulted with no consistency. The majority of the squad we have are capable enough to be part of a promotion chasing squad. The emphasis in the summer needs to be on quality rather than quantity.

 

With regards to what Matt says about expectations of promotion and about it taking a few years to achieve. That might well be the reality of the situation, before we get back into the football league we may have to endure a couple of seasons which end in defeat in the play offs. While that will be hard to take I will accept it if that means we eventually get up.

 

What needs to happen next season is that from now on the expectation is a top 7 finish each season. The aim is obviously promotion sometimes that doesn't always happen the play offs can be a lottery. But from next season on finishing outside the top 7 should be seen as dissapointment. This season was always going to be different in that respect, the squad was cobbled together before the takeover went through so we started the season on the back foot.

 

Had the side that started the season not been added too we would probably have gone down and be looking at trips to Buxton and Chorley and competing against them on equal merit god forbid.

 

So the expectation of just staying up or just consolidating was always the most realistic one this season. However barring a titanic collapse in the last 9 games then consolidation has been achieved the base has been built and its time to move forward and shift that mentality. Finishing 14th 15th 16th 17th will no longer be acceptable any players we sign need to be comfortable with that expectation.

 

 

[League one forever]

4 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

I think one of the main problems we've had which alot of us will recognise is the amount of player churn over the last decade plus. Its been too high and has resulted with no consistency. The majority of the squad we have are capable enough to be part of a promotion chasing squad. The emphasis in the summer needs to be on quality rather than quantity.

 

With regards to what Matt says about expectations of promotion and about it taking a few years to achieve. That might well be the reality of the situation, before we get back into the football league we may have to endure a couple of seasons which end in defeat in the play offs. While that will be hard to take I will accept it if that means we eventually get up.

 

What needs to happen next season is that from now on the expectation is a top 7 finish each season. The aim is obviously promotion sometimes that doesn't always happen the play offs can be a lottery. But from next season on finishing outside the top 7 should be seen as dissapointment. This season was always going to be different in that respect, the squad was cobbled together before the takeover went through so we started the season on the back foot.

 

Had the side that started the season not been added too we would probably have gone down and be looking at trips to Buxton and Chorley and competing against them on equal merit god forbid.

 

So the expectation of just staying up or just consolidating was always the most realistic one this season. However barring a titanic collapse in the last 9 games then consolidation has been achieved the base has been built and its time to move forward and shift that mentality. Finishing 14th 15th 16th 17th will no longer be acceptable any players we sign need to be comfortable with that expectation.

 

 

 

Matt said- 

 

If you set your expectations to high you’ll always be disappointed- Agreed.  
 

He also said- if you set your expectations to low you’ll never achieve anything- agreed. 

 

So with the above in mind- I think the club saying to Unsworth this season-  just keep us up - is to low a bar.  It should have been we expect top half. One might say, what’s the difference between 15th and 11th - but I think it matters. It sets targets and objectives, and holds people to account for their record.  In my view I don’t think he’ll be under any pressure from the club for top 7 next season. Or more accurately- the club will make the right noises, and if and when he isn’t there will be no pressure from the board. 
 

My point is- I’m happy to let any manager build, but not with next to no pressure or expectation from the club. Otherwise we’ll drift- and having said top 7 will be the target- if he struggles I absolutely guarantee Unsy will say top half is progress when it’s categorically is not.  

[Bobledgersheart]

I was prepared to "drift" this season given the state of our club at the time of the takeover, but next will be a different matter.

[nzlatic]

12 hours ago, League one forever said:

 

Matt said- 

 

If you set your expectations to high you’ll always be disappointed- Agreed.  
 

He also said- if you set your expectations to low you’ll never achieve anything- agreed. 

 

So with the above in mind- I think the club saying to Unsworth this season-  just keep us up - is to low a bar.  It should have been we expect top half. One might say, what’s the difference between 15th and 11th - but I think it matters. It sets targets and objectives, and holds people to account for their record.  In my view I don’t think he’ll be under any pressure from the club for top 7 next season. Or more accurately- the club will make the right noises, and if and when he isn’t there will be no pressure from the board. 
 

My point is- I’m happy to let any manager build, but not with next to no pressure or expectation from the club. Otherwise we’ll drift- and having said top 7 will be the target- if he struggles I absolutely guarantee Unsy will say top half is progress when it’s categorically is not.  

You're assuming what you know has been said in private based on little snippets in the media. We have no idea what discussions are going on about expectations.  

 

The board need promotion based on what they're investing, that's pretty clear.  Minimum top 7 next season is both a good target to set and a realistic one, especially with the likely make up of the league next year. I find it hard to believe they won't be looking at that sort of target. It's also perfectly plausible for that to be their target for next season but for this season to be effectively targetless in terms of finishing position. 

[deyres42]

12 hours ago, League one forever said:

 

Matt said- 

 

If you set your expectations to high you’ll always be disappointed- Agreed.  
 

He also said- if you set your expectations to low you’ll never achieve anything- agreed. 

 

So with the above in mind- I think the club saying to Unsworth this season-  just keep us up - is to low a bar.  It should have been we expect top half. One might say, what’s the difference between 15th and 11th - but I think it matters. It sets targets and objectives, and holds people to account for their record.  In my view I don’t think he’ll be under any pressure from the club for top 7 next season. Or more accurately- the club will make the right noises, and if and when he isn’t there will be no pressure from the board. 
 

My point is- I’m happy to let any manager build, but not with next to no pressure or expectation from the club. Otherwise we’ll drift- and having said top 7 will be the target- if he struggles I absolutely guarantee Unsy will say top half is progress when it’s categorically is not.  

There must be some internal pressure considering everyone is saying we've got a top four budget now.

[League one forever]

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

You're assuming what you know has been said in private based on little snippets in the media. We have no idea what discussions are going on about expectations.  

That’s all any of us have. . . 
 

There is a difference between a target and the consequences of not meeting that target. 

 

I’ll put it more simply. 
 

If we finish 8-12th next season, I don’t think he’ll get sacked. As it will be spun as progress, and I don’t think that finish would be enough progress- hence the bar for his success is to low. 
 

1 hour ago, deyres42 said:

There must be some internal pressure considering everyone is saying we've got a top four budget now.

I just can’t see Frank Joe and Darren sacking him if he’s doing ‘ok’.

 

Continuity seems king now. 
 

 

[deyres42]

17 minutes ago, League one forever said:

That’s all any of us have. . . 
 

There is a difference between a target and the consequences of not meeting that target. 

 

I’ll put it more simply. 
 

If we finish 8-12th next season, I don’t think he’ll get sacked. As it will be spun as progress, and I don’t think that finish would be enough progress- hence the bar for his success is to low. 
 

I just can’t see Frank Joe and Darren sacking him if he’s doing ‘ok’.

 

Continuity seems king now. 
 

 

Whether they like it or not the expectations from many will be that we challenge for promotion, ok isn't going to cut it.

[League one forever]

2 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Whether they like it or not the expectations from many will be that we challenge for promotion, ok isn't going to cut it.

As a fellow fan, I totally agree. Ok isn’t good enough. 
 

But this season proves the board don’t listen to the manager noise (nothing wrong with that a lot of the time) and are very patient and understanding. 

 

I think the board/fan expectation are two different things. 

[nzlatic]

1 hour ago, League one forever said:

As a fellow fan, I totally agree. Ok isn’t good enough. 
 

But this season proves the board don’t listen to the manager noise (nothing wrong with that a lot of the time) and are very patient and understanding. 

 

I think the board/fan expectation are two different things. 

I think I'm repeating myself here, but it's possible for the board to have given him this season as a freebie given what's happened at the club, but for them to be much more expectant next season. It may even have been discussed at the start... eg "we're not going to apply any pressure for results this season because we're all rebuilding, but next season we expect to be challenging at the top of the division".

 

Just because they've been relaxed about league position this season doesn't mean they will always be so.

[BP1960]

56 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

I think I'm repeating myself here, but it's possible for the board to have given him this season as a freebie given what's happened at the club, but for them to be much more expectant next season. It may even have been discussed at the start... eg "we're not going to apply any pressure for results this season because we're all rebuilding, but next season we expect to be challenging at the top of the division".

 

Just because they've been relaxed about league position this season doesn't mean they will always be so.

 

Any board and manager worth their salt would say they are going all out for promotion next season.

You also boost season ticket sales that way rather than say we aim to improve on this season.

 

Afrer all the vast majority of clubs in this league are financially worse off than us.