Monty Burns Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 Just now, League one forever said: Yeah, it’s like questioning Micky 5 promotions Mellon after a few games. Whilst wanting to build a statue of David Dunn in a similar amount of time. from DD's cabins on chapel car park to Frank's cabins digging boreholes and making car parks. this is why we can talk about the Football!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, wiseowl said: I did caveat regarding the small sample size (as you did regarding the home and away stats under MM). I don't have a problem with Mellon as it's obvious he is capable of managing. What I find baffling, though, is the view amongst many that ST/NR wouldn't have cut the mustard. We never sank to the depths of a Fylde away or an Ebbsfleet at home during their tenure, and really tightened up at the back. They went on an immediate unbeaten run after the DU debacle - and we sacked them! People say to me (about ST/NR) "they only managed 6 games, so it's no reliable measure". Then in the next breath they are saying, "Mellon's only had 8 games - he needs more time." Blatant double standards and I just cannot understand the ambivalence towards 2 fellas who brought us out of the dark ages. 8 Games is too short to Say ST would have been a success or a failure and 8 Games is too short to say MM will either succeed or fail too (it may not work out for him yet if he doesn't succeed he will be in good company when taking on the Oldham managers job). Therefore we have to look at other factors when deciding who should be the candidate who will be best suited to the job, that's not double standards that's seeing the bigger picture. ST and NR while having some pretty good coaching experience have very little on their C.V.s interns of management experience to suggest that they can cut the mustard both are in their mid 50's yet Mellon despite being a younger man has a proven track record of winning promotions that's what it comes down too. If we start saying 8-10 games is enough to judge someone then we will continue to repeat the cycle of the last 20+ managers who have failed at the club. From what we know about both, Mellon's CV is far superior and if you were to ask the fans and boards of the other 23 clubs in the National League who they would plump for in the same situation, I think they would unanimously plump for Mellon. Edited November 28, 2023 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 12 hours ago, oafc1955 said: You mentioned it there not him! Point being? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said: Point being? what are they on about Fluff? maybe you should say it more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 Just now, Monty Burns said: what are they on about Fluff? maybe you should say it more Think I should... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 14 minutes ago, League one forever said: Yeah, it’s like questioning Micky 5 promotions Mellon after a few games. Whilst wanting to build a statue of David Dunn in a similar amount of time. You'll have to let me in on the meaning of the David Dunn line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said: Point being? Give it a rest!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 Thompson and Bovis were never the long term answer. I'm glad we went for a serial promotion winner and feel more relaxed after a 1-4 home defeat to a side in the relegation zone than I usually would. And the reason I'm more relaxed is because we have a serial promotion winner in the dugout to sort it out instead of a 58 year old first time manager... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 1 hour ago, oafc1955 said: 6 games isn’t long enough to judge, neither is 8…..the decision to choose the next manager was the club’s, they chose Mellon….what point are you making? That's not my quote! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 51 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: Thompson and Bovis were never the long term answer. I'm glad we went for a serial promotion winner and feel more relaxed after a 1-4 home defeat to a side in the relegation zone than I usually would. And the reason I'm more relaxed is because we have a serial promotion winner in the dugout to sort it out instead of a 58 year old first time manager... this chap is onto sumat here l reckon. Frank can tell himself this when hes rowing!! we all need to tell ourselves this. even Thommo N Redders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 26 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: That's not my quote! Sorry D_O I stand corrected! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 27 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: That's not my quote! Can l have a quote from saturdays first time up at BP under Mellon? lm assuming you went corporate! how was that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Monty Burns said: Can l have a quote from saturdays first time up at BP under Mellon? lm assuming you went corporate! how was that? Main Stand Upper for me on Saturday, wouldn't even know where the entrance for corporate is. Here's a quote - 'It Was Shite!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Main Stand Upper for me on Saturday, wouldn't even know where the entrance for corporate is. Here's a quote - 'It Was Shite!' assumptions eh!! did you go/watch Barnet? l need to know you have seen Norwood play blatantly well for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Monty Burns said: assumptions eh!! did you go/watch Barnet? l need to know you have seen Norwood play blatantly well for us! Only on TV. It's still over 100 miles from me and I'll leave midweek trips to others. Yes, he was outstanding, as was Fondop. Edited November 28, 2023 by Dave_Og 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Dave_Og said: So you'd definitely have kept ST/NR?. 2 hours ago, oafc1955 said: 6 games isn’t long enough to judge, neither is 8…..the decision to choose the next manager was the club’s, they chose Mellon….what point are you making? Yes - I would have given ST/NR longer and I said so at the time - why wouldn't that have been a sensible move after the pair instantly "stopped the rot" and went 6 unbeaten? Not a bad footing on which to have given them the rest of the season was it? The club took the decision to part ways - thereafter, I have no problem with the MM appointment. Hope that clarifies. I think our "management" timings have been awful i.e. should have binned off DU at the end of last season and given a new manager time to implement ideas during the close season. Equally, don't chop and change too rapidly like we have this time in mid-season; just doesn't work. Ultimately, I suspect "relationships" had far too much sway in a) the initial appointment of DU et al b) the delay in sacking him/them and c) the subsequent premature binning of the unbeaten duo of ST/NR (and this left a bad taste for me). It can't be denied that ST/NR got more out of this squad than anyone else - including MM to date. We'd never have got a Fylde or Ebbsfleet hammering under them, in my opinion. Most people are now accepting that MM needs fresh players in. Let's hope the money is found for that. I desperately want us to get out of this league ASAP because it's a bloody awful standard to watch. I also want the home attendance for the club to be maintained/improved and you can feel it starting to ebb away (this Sat's true attendance will be interesting). I hope the right people are now making the right decisions, based on objective criteria. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Monty Burns said: MM couldnt save us or the players from listening to ourselves. but he's seen it and is now acting 'without emotion' as he says. but he defo has certain emotions, l can hear it in his voice. Definitely. His interview after the Ebbsfleet debacle was very highly charged with emotion. Although he does a reasonable job of masking it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 9 minutes ago, wiseowl said: Yes - I would have given ST/NR longer and I said so at the time - why wouldn't that have been a sensible move after the pair instantly "stopped the rot" and went 6 unbeaten? Not a bad footing on which to have given them the rest of the season was it? Would much rather have a long term appointment than giving someone a few more months. Whether it's the right appointment only time will tell. I fear you are over analysing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Dave_Og said: That's not my quote! yes I saw that. Never a dull moment on owtb!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) Having chewed the fat over the Ebbsfleet debacle I'm now of the opinion that there may be contributing factors that could have have led to us under performing. I still think we lack character when the chips are down but there may be reason to forgive on this occasion, firstly our squad lacks any depth so when someone isn't on it they invariably have to stay on the pitch as there is no replacement, freshening it up after Saturday/Wednesday must have crossed Mellon's mind but who could he have brought in to that front six without on the face of it weakening us, secondly I dont think we should underestimate what that Capital double header took out of the players not just mentally but physically, it's probably not a coincidence that these games we've over performed in Barnet and Rochdale have been quickly preceded by probably two of our worst performances in living memory, again that is just down to character in my opinion and players having the strength of mind to go again - regardless of the opposition. What time did the get back Thursday morning?, probably early hours which gave limited time to prepare and get ready to go again, is it any wonder the likes of McGahey, Gardner and Lundstrum looked leggy, even Sheron whose as fit as anyone looked like he was running through treacle for the last half hour. A 48 hour turnaround may just have been a step too far. All it does for me is show the strength of the division now and there aren't any gimmes anymore. Add to that these teams literally come here up for it like it's a cup match and raise their games accordingly. I know I piled in to them on here post match but I'm hoping they've learned from it, it was disappointing as a win would have put us 9 points off second having been 15 the week before but we still picked up some valuable points keeping us in touch with the playoff contenders. I don't think that will happen again now, we have an okay run of fixtures now, FA Trophy weekend and a number of free Tuesdays which will allow the management team as well as the players to go again, hopefully we'll get the bounce on Saturday and get back to winning ways at BP which for me is as important as anything. Edited November 28, 2023 by yarddog73 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimeblue Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, wiseowl said: Yes - I would have given ST/NR longer and I said so at the time - why wouldn't that have been a sensible move after the pair instantly "stopped the rot" and went 6 unbeaten? Not a bad footing on which to have given them the rest of the season was it? The club took the decision to part ways - thereafter, I have no problem with the MM appointment. Hope that clarifies. I think our "management" timings have been awful i.e. should have binned off DU at the end of last season and given a new manager time to implement ideas during the close season. Equally, don't chop and change too rapidly like we have this time in mid-season; just doesn't work. Ultimately, I suspect "relationships" had far too much sway in a) the initial appointment of DU et al b) the delay in sacking him/them and c) the subsequent premature binning of the unbeaten duo of ST/NR (and this left a bad taste for me). It can't be denied that ST/NR got more out of this squad than anyone else - including MM to date. We'd never have got a Fylde or Ebbsfleet hammering under them, in my opinion. Most people are now accepting that MM needs fresh players in. Let's hope the money is found for that. I desperately want us to get out of this league ASAP because it's a bloody awful standard to watch. I also want the home attendance for the club to be maintained/improved and you can feel it starting to ebb away (this Sat's true attendance will be interesting). I hope the right people are now making the right decisions, based on objective criteria. Equally, we never had a Barnet or Woking. We were good against York but the players were chomping at the bit after Unsworth’s sacking... Edited November 28, 2023 by longtimeblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 7 hours ago, wiseowl said: It can't be denied that ST/NR got more out of this squad than anyone else - including MM to date Sorry, but that’s absolute bollocks Owl. Things that didn’t happen under ST. We’ve scored 4 on two separate occasions- both away from home. We created numerous chances against Alty and Eastleigh and could and should have won both comfortably. We’ve bossed a game (Woking) from start to finish, and completely outplayed them. Our ball retention and passing are generally far superior. 8 hours ago, wiseowl said: We'd never have got a Fylde or Ebbsfleet hammering under them, in my opinion. Perhaps- but we didn’t get any of the above either. I know which I prefer as a work in progress. . . ST went unbeaten and results are the ultimate currency, but it’s undeniable the football was nowhere near as good in a multitude of ways- and poor performances don’t sustain good result. Three wins quickly became three draws. . . If MM had replaced ST with similar football and not got the same results. I’d take your argument. But he’s vastly improved the football on the whole. 8 hours ago, wiseowl said: Most people are now accepting that MM needs fresh players in ST said on a couple of occasions he wanted to bring players in, and knew his targets. Bit rich when you’ve had a hand in an extremely lob sided squad assembled at relative great expense. Meanwhile a manager with 5 promotions has said numerous times, we have to respect the money spent by the owners. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 5 promotions is the new Carl Froch 80 thousand at Wwmbley... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 2 hours ago, deyres42 said: 5 promotions is the new Carl Froch 80 thousand at Wwmbley... Catchy isn’t it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsEddie Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 11 hours ago, League one forever said: Sorry, but that’s absolute bollocks Owl. Things that didn’t happen under ST. We’ve scored 4 on two separate occasions- both away from home. We created numerous chances against Alty and Eastleigh and could and should have won both comfortably. We’ve bossed a game (Woking) from start to finish, and completely outplayed them. Our ball retention and passing are generally far superior. Perhaps- but we didn’t get any of the above either. I know which I prefer as a work in progress. . . ST went unbeaten and results are the ultimate currency, but it’s undeniable the football was nowhere near as good in a multitude of ways- and poor performances don’t sustain good result. Three wins quickly became three draws. . . If MM had replaced ST with similar football and not got the same results. I’d take your argument. But he’s vastly improved the football on the whole. ST said on a couple of occasions he wanted to bring players in, and knew his targets. Bit rich when you’ve had a hand in an extremely lob sided squad assembled at relative great expense. Meanwhile a manager with 5 promotions has said numerous times, we have to respect the money spent by the owners. Playing devils advocate, ST and NR ever had a full week of training to implement anything so we dont know how the football under him would have looked, making the unbeaten run in a congested set of fixtures look that bit more impressive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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