MATCH: Ebbsfleet United (H) 25/11/23

[JoeP]

5 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

Which is basically the tactics adopted by Unsworth but that didn’t go to well did it?

 

It's still better than under Unsworth.  Aside from the last ten minutes yesterday, we're still not giving the opposition as many chances as we did.

 

The results are generally fair.  When we play well, we win.  When we play badly, we lose.  There's no masking of how well we're doing by somehow taking points from games where we've largely been shit.

 

It's Mellon's job is to get the good performances consistently and if he'd given time and the opportunity to bring in his own players, I think he'll do that..

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by JoeP

[Bobledgersheart]

34 minutes ago, Careca9 said:

The stats back up what we can all see. Away when we play on break and don’t have to pass or create and can dink balls forward we are ok. At home when we need to pass and create we can’t. Our midfield is terrible, yesterday the movement was non existent. They can’t pass it about so we can’t pin teams in as we loose it. Front two also culpable as hold up play is dead. The number of times freeman or mcgahey had no options to pass to was a joke and when they did we got one pass at best more before we lost it. All 4 in the middle need replacing, bar possibly Gardner and when we do sort that out we’ll control games and win more often at home. As for now we’ll be best sitting back and playing on break. 

Think Lundstrom would definitely fit into our midfield with at least one possibly two additions. He retains the ball well and is an excellent crosser so may be OK on the right of a midfield three. 

[yarddog73]

I'll be judging Mellon in 12 months time, anything before then I will see as a bonus but I feel he needs to change the way we are playing at home as teams come here with a plan to stick 9 behind the ball and frustrate and we just can't deal with that, I'm not having it that we don't expect that and prepare for it but we just don't deal with it, we always leave the defence back and effectively end up playing 6 against 9 which will get us nowhere without a bit of brilliance, fullbacks and a centrehalf need to push on and overload their midfield, only really in the 10 minutes before half time did Freeman push on and we looked a different team, he's got to get further up the pitch but it looks like he can't be arsed to graft.

 

Yesterday we had nobody who could produce a forward pass or indeed players willing to create space for themselves and each other, it was lazy and laboured.

 

Freeman, Mcghahey, Raglan, Sheron would all give it and then stand still, pass and move, give the midfield an option it's really basic stuff.

 

Gardner also had a stinker and it just shows if he struggles the team does as we basically have nobody to keep us ticking over l, that was evidenced by Norwood dropping back in to midfield and trying to make something happen, I thought Lundstrum did well but Sheron just slows us down if the ball goes through him, he's incapable of taking the ball on the half turn and driving us forward, when he receives it it just goes straight back to where it came from or at best sideways, his passing yesterday was also piss poor.

 

Green reverted back to type, wasn't brave and only really had a go at his man when we were chasing the game and he'd obviously been given instruction to, Ebbsfleet concede goals for fun and he along with Kitching should have been parked on that touchline offering an outlet every time.

 

We need to be braver at home, have more urgency and take it to them, we give teams an age to set up when their attack breaks down and they know it, it's why opposition teams pour men forward because they know they'll have time to get back and reset, it's my biggest bugbear around Hudson his distribution is shocking and he makes bad decisions, holds on to it when we have three on three and two on two and then hoofs it aimlessly when nothings on.

 

Despite all that I'm pretty zen, still think Mellon will get us in the playoffs but feel like the same players will continue to let us down, unfortunately he's going to need at least another season to rid us of the Royle/Unsworth legacy but I'm confident he will ultimately deliver us success.

[GlossopLatic]

21 hours ago, Londonboy said:

I really don't think they are and we need more than a few tweeks.

Compare us to recently promoted sides, Stockport, Wrexham, Notts County and Chesterfield this season, and we are way off them. They rarely get beaten by bottom 4 sides and had/had exceptional home records.

How many of our stating 11 today would get in theirs the season they got promoted?

Maybe Norwood and Hobson on current form and that's it!!

We are an aging squad with an average age of 28/29.

We have no quick and hungry wide players like we see at most NL sides and are still woeful creatively in midfield.

 

We may yet squeeze into the playoffs if MM can add a few bodies where it's glaringly obvious we need them, but I'm almost resigned to another season in the NL, and a proper tilt at winning it next year.

 

 

It's the same group of players that spanked Barnet on Wednesday. It's not a lost cause. Going into the last 3 fixtures I would have seen 6 points as a satisfactory return. The last 10 minutes yesterday does no doubt put a sour taste to what overall was a good week and if they got a rocket from Mellon and Brabin they will have no excuse.

 

Yes Chesterfield are a far better side all round they will win the league by atleast 10 points, that leaves 1 place left for us to compete for. Our aim is to fight for that spot with a few tweeks we might just get there. 

 

Stockport Wrexham and Notts Countys promotions came off the back of missing out in the play offs in the previous season, Chesterfields likely return will have come from being a penalty shooutout away from promotion. While the opportunity to get in the play offs is there we should aim for it. If we fail to go up this season then I would rather the summer rebuild be done from missing out in the play offs than finishing mid table.

Edited November 27, 2023 by GlossopLatic

[PeteG]

3 hours ago, League one forever said:

If there’s one crumb of comfort it’s Micky’s post match presser,  it was exactly how I felt and what I was thinking on the game. He talks so much sense, and that in itself gives me a bit hope. 
 

As Micky and a few have said on here, the mentality of playing for Oldham has to be right. To not get a base level of performance yesterday is unacceptable. All the players are talented, but they lack the desire and self motivation to get the best out of themselves consistently. 
 

 

I think his presser was spot on, i've every confidence we've got the right guy in charge. I did wonder whether his remark (which he must have made 3 or 4 times) about look with your eyes was reference to all this data, stats baloney? I might be a bit of a dinosaur but i've always said, i'm not that interested in stats and this XG bollox, i can see exactly which players are good enough and putting in the required miles and effort by just watching them. Maybe MM is a bit more old school and his recruitment will be based on what he sees and what he knows about players characters etc.

[penrhyn]

Just out of interest has anybody watched Rochdale recently . The lad they signed from Chesterfield Jeserun Uchegbulam scares the crap out of every team they have played recently . Beats players for fun similar to Kanu at Barnet, we are short of a player who can do that amongst others. But Rochdale look a decent side at the moment.

For me we are 2/3 of what is required for a play off spot. Unless we fix this with a change in some personel ,we will continue to be inconsistent. For me at present we are were we will probably end up at the end of the season 10th, unless we can make changes. Our midfield is way behind the top 7 and we need at least one full back.

I am sure Mellon has marked a few cards and some players are on last chance .

Yesterday a lot of the players looked knackered after 15 minutes . And I also thought Norwood looked like he was carrying an injury . 

[mick26]

10 minutes ago, penrhyn said:

Just out of interest has anybody watched Rochdale recently . The lad they signed from Chesterfield Jeserun Uchegbulam scares the crap out of every team they have played recently . Beats players for fun similar to Kanu at Barnet, we are short of a player who can do that amongst others. But Rochdale look a decent side at the moment.

For me we are 2/3 of what is required for a play off spot. Unless we fix this with a change in some personel ,we will continue to be inconsistent. For me at present we are were we will probably end up at the end of the season 10th, unless we can make changes. Our midfield is way behind the top 7 and we need at least one full back.

I am sure Mellon has marked a few cards and some players are on last chance .

Yesterday a lot of the players looked knackered after 15 minutes . And I also thought Norwood looked like he was carrying an injury . 

Spot on - we've seen lots of exciting wingers this season all on opposition sides unfortunately! Dale also have Sinclair (injured now) and Hayes on loan from Fleetwood who looks decent. Still can't understand why we chose not to have any loan players - should be your better players at this level.

[Only Blue]

I don't quite understand why the expectation weighs so heavily on the players and don't accept this as an excuse.

 

As soon as any player shows the slightest bit of effort they are clapped and encouraged. Even if passes go astray and the fans groan , which is no different to any other fans across the country , as long as the player bust a gut to rectify it then all is forgiven.

 

The games at home tend to start brightly and from what I can judge from the Rochdale Rd end the fans are right behind them early doors. It's only when the players work-rate drops and we allow the away team to look like world beaters that the mood changes.

 

Again though the players should be able to block that out as they do away from home where the home crowd must be more hostile than their own fans.

 

Also the Chaddy end experiment has well and truly failed. Close it and save the club money.

 

 

[deyres42]

10 minutes ago, Only Blue said:

I don't quite understand why the expectation weighs so heavily on the players and don't accept this as an excuse.

 

As soon as any player shows the slightest bit of effort they are clapped and encouraged. Even if passes go astray and the fans groan , which is no different to any other fans across the country , as long as the player bust a gut to rectify it then all is forgiven.

 

The games at home tend to start brightly and from what I can judge from the Rochdale Rd end the fans are right behind them early doors. It's only when the players work-rate drops and we allow the away team to look like world beaters that the mood changes.

 

Again though the players should be able to block that out as they do away from home where the home crowd must be more hostile than their own fans.

 

Also the Chaddy end experiment has well and truly failed. Close it and save the club money.

 

 

Excellent point about the Chaddy, the whingers had their chance and haven't taken it, unless they are planning to revamp it then it is time to move on from it.

[Summerdeep]

Closing an end could give the impression that a club, or at least its ground, is on the way out. Just as putting a supermarket in the Railway Embankment End at Bolton indicated that Burnden Park was on borrowed time in the 1990s.

[disjointed]

12 minutes ago, Summerdeep said:

Closing an end could give the impression that a club, or at least its ground, is on the way out. Just as putting a supermarket in the Railway Embankment End at Bolton indicated that Burnden Park was on borrowed time in the 1990s.

Nah, just symptomatic of the league we are in, when Chesterfield, Dale, York and Halifax come to town give them the Chaddy, when we work our way up the leagues it's time will come again. 

[Summerdeep]

^ Interesting perspective, but I still think that leaving an end completely empty gives an impression of dereliction, which can associate itself with the ground as a whole and not just one section.

 

I believe that the demise of the Chaddy probably started with the installation of seating in 1992-93 or whenever, though I suppose this was inevitable for legal reasons. Pretty much destroyed the atmosphere there though. They made the Lever End at Bolton all-seater in 1978-79: was it entirely a coincidence that Wanderers were heading for relegation less than a year later? I remember attending a couple of matches at Burnden Park in 1979-80, and much of the atmosphere in the ground was gone. The experience of watching a home side attacking an end packed with thousands of standing spectators was unbeatable in my view.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Summerdeep

[Norewgian Gunnar]

So disappointing yesterday after two great away results. Like Jekyll and Hyde.

 

Someone pointed out our average age as a squad in other posts as over 28. Perhaps a few younger legs in the team might produce some more creativity especially in midfield where we still lack someone to run at the opposition. Lundstram does that to a degree but we need a bit more youth in the tam. Most of  teams like Ebsfleet have much younger teams and seem more likely to take risks than we do. 

[Only Blue]

I agree it looks bad when a stand is empty but equally it doesn't look much better with about 30 fans in it.

 

Darren Royle previously stated they were closing it to save money and the vast majority either agreed or at least accepted the logic.

 

Fair play to Latics , they have tried to keep everyone happy and so catered for the ones who wanted to return there but the numbers do not warrant it being open.

 

I had my most magical football memories in the Chaddy and any future great games can be equally as good regardless of where I sit/stand. 

 

[Summerdeep]

Yep, fair enough, there's probably no entirely satisfactory solution here, but I still maintain that the whole seating nonsense is the root of the problem. In conclusion please note:

 

1978-79 Lever End at Bolton made all-seater

1979-80 Wanderers relegated

 

1992-93 Chaddy End at Oldham made all-seater

1993-94 Latics relegated

 

At least 250 home matches at Boundary Park lost since 1992, one of the worst records in English football.

 

"I think you may be onto something there, Holmes..."

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Summerdeep

[disjointed]

9 minutes ago, Summerdeep said:

Yep, fair enough, there's probably no entirely satisfactory solution here, but I still maintain that the whole seating nonsense is the root of the problem. In conclusion please note:

 

1978-79 Lever End at Bolton made all-seater

1979-80 Wanderers relegated

 

1992-93 Chaddy End at Oldham made all-seater

1993-94 Latics relegated

 

At least 250 home matches at Boundary Park lost since 1992, one of the worst records in English football.

 

"I think you may be onto something there, Holmes..."

 

You could look at all clubs that installed seating and then the following seasons conclusion. I would wager that 1 or 2 may have won their league or achieved promotion. 

[Dave_Og]

46 minutes ago, Summerdeep said:

^ Interesting perspective, but I still think that leaving an end completely empty gives an impression of dereliction, which can associate itself with the ground as a whole and not just one section.

 

I believe that the demise of the Chaddy probably started with the installation of seating in 1992-93 or whenever, though I suppose this was inevitable for legal reasons. Pretty much destroyed the atmosphere there though. They made the Lever End at Bolton all-seater in 1978-79: was it entirely a coincidence that Wanderers were heading for relegation less than a year later? I remember attending a couple of matches at Burnden Park in 1979-80, and much of the atmosphere in the ground was gone. The experience of watching a home side attacking an end packed with thousands of standing spectators was unbeatable in my view.

 

There were about twenty people in there yesterday 

[Summerdeep]

1 hour ago, disjointed said:

You could look at all clubs that installed seating and then the following seasons conclusion. I would wager that 1 or 2 may have won their league or achieved promotion. 

 

Yes, that's an obvious objection, but I'd maintain that for a club like Latics with limited resources at the top level, a factor such as the one I have highlighted could be crucial. I always felt that the old Chaddy End was often a decisive factor for us, a bit like having a '12th player' on the pitch (or a 5th Beatle, lol). 

 

I'm not so deluded as to be unaware that there were significant other factors in Latics' demise since the mid-1990s, namely Royle's ineptitude in the transfer market (Kilcline for Warhurst, WTF?) or the ludicrous grandstanding and showboating of Iain Stott when he got on the Football League Management Committee (or whatever it was called) instead of devoting 110% of his energy to establishing the club in the top flight.

 

And don't get me started on G. Sharp.....

 

Or M. Hughes, obviously.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Summerdeep

[Londonboy]

5 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

It's the same group of players that spanked Barnet on Wednesday. It's not a lost cause. Going into the last 3 fixtures I would have seen 6 points as a satisfactory return. The last 10 minutes yesterday does no doubt put a sour taste to what overall was a good week and if they got a rocket from Mellon and Brabin they will have no excuse.

 

Yes Chesterfield are a far better side all round they will win the league by atleast 10 points, that leaves 1 place left for us to compete for. Our aim is to fight for that spot with a few tweeks we might just get there. 

 

Stockport Wrexham and Notts Countys promotions came off the back of missing out in the play offs in the previous season, Chesterfields likely return will have come from being a penalty shooutout away from promotion. While the opportunity to get in the play offs is there we should aim for it. If we fail to go up this season then I would rather the summer rebuild be done from missing out in play offs than finishing mid table.

Don't disagree with anything you say Glossop.

Let's see how far MM can take us with this crop of players over the next 10 games or so andbtakebot from there

[Londonboy]

2 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

^ Interesting perspective, but I still think that leaving an end completely empty gives an impression of dereliction, which can associate itself with the ground as a whole and not just one section.

 

I believe that the demise of the Chaddy probably started with the installation of seating in 1992-93 or whenever, though I suppose this was inevitable for legal reasons. Pretty much destroyed the atmosphere there though. They made the Lever End at Bolton all-seater in 1978-79: was it entirely a coincidence that Wanderers were heading for relegation less than a year later? I remember attending a couple of matches at Burnden Park in 1979-80, and much of the atmosphere in the ground was gone. The experience of watching a home side attacking an end packed with thousands of standing spectators was unbeatable in my view.

 

Perhaps you could make an appearance Summerdeep? Think you have previously said there's no way you would pay 20 quid to do in there??

[Dave_Og]

2 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

 

Yes, that's an obvious objection, but I'd maintain that for a club like Latics with limited resources at the top level, a factor such as the one I have highlighted could be crucial. I always felt that the old Chaddy End was often a decisive factor for us, a bit like having a '12th player' on the pitch (or a 5th Beatle, lol). 

 

I'm not so deluded as to be unaware that there were significant other factors in Latics' demise since the mid-1990s, namely Royle's ineptitude in the transfer market (Kilcline for Warhurst, WTF?) or the ludicrous grandstanding and showboating of Iain Stott when he got on the Football League Management Committee (or whatever it was called) instead of devoting 110% of his energy to establishing the club in the top flight.

 

And don't get me started on G. Sharp.....

 

Or M. Hughes, obviously.

 

Seriously rose tinted glasses. For large chunks of the years you're so fond of there were barely enough people in there to suck a polo mint, never mind the ball into the net

[yarddog73]

34 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Seriously rose tinted glasses. For large chunks of the years you're so fond of there were barely enough people in there to suck a polo mint, never mind the ball into the net

Indeed I started watching us in the Chaddy mid 80's and it was dead, crowds around the 3 or 4000 mark, you'd get as many in the Lookers paddock some games.

 

It needs shutting and opening for half a dozen games where the away following will exceed 300, waste of money and plenty of seats in the rest of the ground for everyone.

[oafc1955]

4 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

^ Interesting perspective, but I still think that leaving an end completely empty gives an impression of dereliction, which can associate itself with the ground as a whole and not just one section.

The Chaddy is for away fans simple.

If we were in league 1 or 2 it wouldn’t be an issue at all.

When clubs bring less than a couple of hundred most weeks it’s a no brainer to make alternative arrangements.

The Chaddy End experiment hasn’t worked so let’s just close it again and then open it up for the larger away followings!

[oafc1955]

I thought it was bad 1st time but I just watched a re-run of the game and it was much worse 2nd time around.

 

We created absolutely nothing apart from the double save from Norwood in the 1st half.

 

The Ebbsfleet goals came as a result of horrendous defending. We were absolutely clueless and the lack of creativity and urgency was there for all to see. I just hope MM makes them watch it because it was a total embarrassment.

 

I just don’t understand how you can turn in performances like that and the one at Fylde with a so called top 7 squad!

 

If I was MM I wouldn’t know where to start on Monday morning after that debacle. There wasn’t a single positive to take from the game and I don’t see how this squad, in its current form, can possibly come back from that performance.

 

I just hope he has been promised some funds and can get them off Frank before he gets in his boat because this lot won’t have us anywhere near the playoffs!

[League one forever]

30 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

I don’t see how this squad, in its current form, can possibly come back from that performance.

Nowt like a bit of gross exaggeration. 
 

We were abject against Flyde- then went four unbeaten. 
 

Let’s see what the next few games bring.