MATCH: Ebbsfleet United (H) 25/11/23

[sjk2008]

And as much as McGahey has looked alright, it has to be Hobson and Raglan going forward.

 

Man though, we are desperate for players who can beat a man.

[True Tic]

9 hours ago, mcfluff1985 said:

So do we need 4 new players again?

We probably do

[True Tic]

7 hours ago, JoeP said:

He talks sense..

 

Mellon On Defeat At Home - News - Oldham Athletic

He knows this group isn’t taking us beyond mid table, he says it without actually saying it but he knows. 

[True Tic]

7 hours ago, deyres42 said:

I don't get this notion that Mellon needs to feel his way into the job. Surely a major factor in appointing him was that he's seen and done it all at this level and that negated the need for a prolonged period of bedding in?

I think he’s seen and felt his way into the job now 6 or 7 games in. The players have proved time and again to him and us that collectively they aren’t up to what we need. 

[True Tic]

7 hours ago, oafc1955 said:

How you can possibly come to that conclusion God only knows.

I think they deserve a lot of credit for what I thought was an excellent all round performance and in my opinion their win was fully deserved!!

It certainly was, bearing in mind the limp, leggy and bottleless opposition. 

[longtimeblue]

Not too much of a difficult task, to be fair. This division is so shit that I think we'd make the play-offs as is.

 

But, if we were to get up, we'd be completely under prepared. We'll be 10 points clear this time next year.

 

[nzlatic]

I don’t think they’re arrogant or coasting on big salaries and think they can just turn up and win easily - they have no reason to think that. It hasn’t happened so far.
 

I think it’s more likely that the pressure of playing for a big club at this level with an expectant fan base is too much for a lot of them.

[Londonboy]

12 hours ago, oafc1955 said:

How you can possibly come to that conclusion God only knows.

I think they deserve a lot of credit for what I thought was an excellent all round performance and in my opinion their win was fully deserved!!

I think he's implying they were in the bottom 4, hadn't won in 10 and were in the NLS last season...and apart from the previously quoted loss in 1969 it must be the lowest ranked club we have ever lost a home game against. 

They deserved it because we didn't and judging by their season and results so far are a pretty poor outfit. 

 

[Dave_Og]

6 hours ago, sjk2008 said:

I haven’t got the slightest clue how anyone can make a judgement on Willoughby. He hasn’t had a sniff. 
 

 

It feels like three managers have made a judgement 

[Dave_Og]

6 minutes ago, Londonboy said:

I think he's implying they were in the bottom 4, hadn't won in 10 and were in the NLS last season...and apart from the previously quoted loss in 1969 it must be the lowest ranked club we have ever lost a home game against. 

They deserved it because we didn't and judging by their season and results so far are a pretty poor outfit. 

 

Fylde were lower ranked 

[JoeP]

2 hours ago, nzlatic said:

I don’t think they’re arrogant or coasting on big salaries and think they can just turn up and win easily - they have no reason to think that. It hasn’t happened so far.
 

I think it’s more likely that the pressure of playing for a big club at this level with an expectant fan base is too much for a lot of them.

 

That doesn't explain why they can do it on some occasions, but not others.

 

If - off the top of my head - a player is playing against sides who are fighting for a place in the Premier League last season and then this year is playing against part-timers, I can't believe that player would approach the different games with the same mentality...

[GlossopLatic]

It's a very small sample size but in the 8 games (including the FA cup game against Newport) Mellon has taken charge our home and away form seems in contrast

 

Home P3 W0 D2 L1 

Away P5 W3 D0 L2

 

Are we more comfortable playing away from home? I suppose some will look at that and say that the expectation of the Boundary Park crowd weighs heavy on the shoulders, and its fair point.

 

However I do feel that the squad we have is more suited to playing a style of sitting back and counter attacking rather than taking the game to the opposition. I think we need to find a way to win games at home when the onus is on us to take control of the game like yesterday. I do believe we need a magic man/codebreaker type in the mold of Jose Baxter/Jack Byrne/ or even Harry Vaughan who could unlock a defense in a game like that get us ahead in the game and then we will be less likely to get counter attacked like yesterday.

[Dave_Og]

4 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

It's a very small sample size but in the 8 games (including the FA cup game against Newport) Mellon has taken charge our home and away form seems in contrast

 

Home P3 W0 D2 L1 

Away P5 W3 D0 L2

 

Are we more comfortable playing away from home? I suppose some will look at that and say that the expectation of the Boundary Park crowd weighs heavy on the shoulders, and its fair point.

 

However I do feel that the squad we have is more suited to playing a style of sitting back and counter attacking rather than taking the game to the opposition. I think we need to find a way to win games at home when the onus is on us to take control of the game like yesterday. I do believe we need a magic man/codebreaker type in the mold of Jose Baxter/Jack Byrne/ or even Harry Vaughan who could unlock a defense in a game like that get us ahead in the game and then we will be less likely to get counter attacked like yesterday.

Vaughan doesn't seem to be catching at Hull. Maybe we could get him back.....

[nzlatic]

6 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

That doesn't explain why they can do it on some occasions, but not others.

 

If - off the top of my head - a player is playing against sides who are fighting for a place in the Premier League last season and then this year is playing against part-timers, I can't believe that player would approach the different games with the same mentality...

It’s just a theory. But just looking at our bad results, they normally come after a good result or small run of good results, ie when expectation is high.

 

eg Halifax after Aldershot

Solihull at home after 2 decent away results 

Wealdstone, Maidenhead and Dagenham draws on the back of 3 wins

Fylde after altrincham and Rochdale wins

Ebbsfleet after Woking and Barnet

 

Our best results come after bad results where expectation has fallen or in games where expectations are lower

 

eg Aldershot after Southend

Away games at chesterfield, altrincham, Rochdale, Woking, Barnet. 

[JoeP]

1 minute ago, nzlatic said:

It’s just a theory. But just looking at our bad results, they normally come after a good result or small run of good results, ie when expectation is high.

 

eg Halifax after Aldershot

Solihull at home after 2 decent away results 

Wealdstone, Maidenhead and Dagenham draws on the back of 3 wins

Fylde after altrincham and Rochdale wins

Ebbsfleet after Woking and Barnet

 

Our best results come after bad results where expectation has fallen or in games where expectations are lower

 

eg Aldershot after Southend

Away games at chesterfield, altrincham, Rochdale, Woking, Barnet. 

 

I see what you're saying, but is that mentality created by the fans or the players?

 

Either way, it's for the players and management to sort out.  The fans can't be expected to limit their expectations given firstly we shouldn't be in this division in the first place, we've spent a lot of money and if we've won at 2nd from top in the League, we should be beating 2nd from bottom...

 

The players being "mentally weak" has been mentioned in this thread.  It's hard to argue against that..

[deyres42]

6 hours ago, True Tic said:

I think he’s seen and felt his way into the job now 6 or 7 games in. The players have proved time and again to him and us that collectively they aren’t up to what we need. 

Doesn't appear there will be a huge pot of money to make wholesale changes, especially once the league payments stop so he's going to have to work with most of them.

[GlossopLatic]

1 minute ago, deyres42 said:

Doesn't appear there will be a huge pot of money to make wholesale changes, especially once the league payments stop so he's going to have to work with most of them.

 

The majority of them are good enough to make up a squad that challenges for promotion.

 

We don't need wholesale changes we just need a few tweeks.

[nzlatic]

7 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

I see what you're saying, but is that mentality created by the fans or the players?

 

Either way, it's for the players and management to sort out.  The fans can't be expected to limit their expectations given firstly we shouldn't be in this division in the first place, we've spent a lot of money and if we've won at 2nd from top in the League, we should be beating 2nd from bottom...

 

The players being "mentally weak" has been mentioned in this thread.  It's hard to argue against that..

Fans create the expectation but it’s up to the club to recruit players who can handle that. And it’s up to the management and players to create an environment where players can deal with the pressure more easily.

 

There’s nothing wrong with fans expecting to be pushing for promotion.

[Ritchierich]

8 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

The majority of them are good enough to make up a squad that challenges for promotion.

 

We don't need wholesale changes we just need a few tweeks.

I think that is what MM has been trying to do but last night he sounded like it was time for a different approach!
 

I think we need an overhaul and that will take time, it’s really all down to last season and summer where we loaded the team with a bunch of skilful but evidently “soft” players whereas we need a bit of steel in the middle of the park especially 

 

This season will continue in this vein I suspect, no consistency and a mid table finish….next season I have faith in MM to make the necessary changes and we will be a different proposition 

[GlossopLatic]

5 minutes ago, Ritchierich said:

I think that is what MM has been trying to do but last night he sounded like it was time for a different approach!
 

I think we need an overhaul and that will take time, it’s really all down to last season and summer where we loaded the team with a bunch of skilful but evidently “soft” players whereas we need a bit of steel in the middle of the park especially 

 

This season will continue in this vein I suspect, no consistency and a mid table finish….next season I have faith in MM to make the necessary changes and we will be a different proposition 

 

Looking at yesterday's starting line up players like McGahey Raglan Sheron Fondop and Norwood I'm not seeing a group of "soft" players there and throw in Hogan off the bench too I don't think we have a group of mentally weak players. I just see a lack of guile to break teams down. We've shown we can win away I'm not sure we are very good at breaking teams down aswell as we need to be. 2-3 or at most players can change that.

[wiseowl]

15 hours ago, simplythemostimportantkick said:

Another performance like that and you’ll deffo be boycotting?

I boycotted under DU because I could see from an early stage he was not a good manager. I was spot on. Persisting with him has knocked us back a year or two.

 

I don't think the same about MM - although I accept some performances under him have been as poor as many witnessed under DU (including yesterday's shambles).

 

Did I mention I was going to boycott ?

 

No, I said my overwhelming emotion after the game was one of sadness. There are a lot of MM doubters - because home performances have been average to very poor. I went to the last 2 away games and saw what we are capable of - and NEVER saw that under DU. 

[Summerdeep]

Here's my formula for getting the team winning their home games:

 

Rip out all the seats in the Chaddy End and reintroduce terracing. Make admission cheap for home fans - no more than £5, payable at the turnstile, no tickets nonsense - this should generate a decent atmosphere. Rebuild the pitch, reintroducing the 6ft slope towards the Chaddy End. In the past, whenever we had a half-decent side, we'd bury the opposition when playing down the slope in the second half at least 80% of the time.

 

I'm only half kidding, folks.

[GlossopLatic]

8 minutes ago, Summerdeep said:

Here's my formula for getting the team winning their home games:

 

Rip out all the seats in the Chaddy End and reintroduce terracing. Make admission cheap for home fans - no more than £5, payable at the turnstile, no tickets nonsense - this should generate a decent atmosphere. Rebuild the pitch, reintroducing the 6ft slope towards the Chaddy End. In the past, whenever we had a half-decent side, we'd bury the opposition when playing down the slope in the second half at least 80% of the time.

 

I'm only half kidding, folks.

 

Shall we all turn up in cloggs and bring our whippets too, Bar Station Zebra should serve Mild too.  

[Summerdeep]

^ I was thinking more steel toecaps!

 

As you probably gather, the post was at least half tongue-in-cheek, but still, I bet if someone did a survey of all the goals Latics ever scored at the Chaddy End when it was the home end, regardless of any slope on the pitch, it would probably be closer to a 60-40 ratio than 50-50 vis a vis the Rochdale End. From my own recollections of attending matches at Boundary Park, the ratio of goals might well have been over 60-40.

 

As I pointed out in a recent post, yesterday's defeat was our 218th at BP since Royle left as manager in the mid-1990s, a disgraceful record.

 

Food for thought, or maybe ought to be!

[wiseowl]

15 hours ago, JoeP said:

He talks sense..

 

Mellon On Defeat At Home - News - Oldham Athletic

He's seething there and quite emotional at times too. He knows we need rid of quite a few players and fresh ones in. Unfortunately, according to what I have been told before, the amount of money wasted on the "ex-Everton" experiment means purse strings are a lot tighter than they were.