mcfluff1985 Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 1 minute ago, kowenicki said: Diplomacy is an essential part of business. If you storm in to a board meetings demanding and shouting, you will get nowhere. If you get to the point where you are referring to points of law to ask for information you may as well give up. I’ve been critical of the Trust in the past because I think they are massively conflicted, but this doesn’t mean they can’t be useful and can’t cajole the owner in ways we would all appreciate. The Trust is not a Union making demands to the ‘management’. That would be a very counter productive approach. Although I know that would be a popular approach on this forum... comrades. If they won't ask the questions they need to then there is zero point in them. They keep talking about this open relationship. It either is or isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archiecat Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 1 minute ago, kowenicki said: ...And sometimes it’s wrong. Time will tell. Yep,like condemning a midfielder who has many passes intercepted time will tell if he really is a far better player than we think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said: If they won't ask the questions they need to then there is zero point in them. They keep talking about this open relationship. It either is or isn't You missed the bit where I say, and have been saying for years, that they are hugely conflicted...they are limited in what they can tell us as board members of a private limited company. Regarding questions and communication with the owner...I’m happy if they are happy. If they sense a closing down of communication, obstinance and awkwardness I’m sure they will say. Otherwise, leave it to them to ask questions that are relevant and are timely. They aren’t idiots or mugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, archiecat said: Yep,like condemning a midfielder who has many passes intercepted time will tell if he really is a far better player than we think Terrible analogy. I watch him play every week with my own eyes. Whereas you are operating on rumour and conjecture. But yeah, I guess that is true. Time will tell with said ‘midfield general’ too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticMark Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Reminder: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, LaticMark said: Reminder: So we won’t be able to hear the HT stuff as we will all be at the match. Genius decision from BBC Noblot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 16 hours ago, lookersstandandy said: ....it’s not critical to want to understand his motives though. He’s - evidently - not as wealthy as Sheikh Mansoor, Vichai Srivaddhanaprbha or Vincent Tan, which significantly decreases his ability to ‘have fun’. Citeh, Leicester & Cardiff are all situated in Cities with larger catchments and all own(ed) their own land/Stadia.... ....therefore it does still beg the question, why? If he was as wealthy as those guys, he would be buying a top Championship club or a Premiership club. I can see why, if someone has a few million (by that mean at least £20m) they would want to buy OAFC. Like TTA, who wanted to buy Hull the season before they bought OAFC, they look at the population and think that it should support a much bigger club than it does. AL would look at current support of around 4000, and think that it should be possible to increase it to at least 15000, or even 20000 if we got to the Championship playing well. The club could then be sold on at a profit, with lots of good times on the way. He may consider it as a sleeping giant. The reality is as TTA found out, it won't happen because the good people of Oldham have no interest in the club. They then decided to asset strip us to try and recover their losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midsblue Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 22 minutes ago, LaticMark said: Reminder: Sounds like click bait to me. Did he ask the crucial questions? 1. If certain debts were excluded/hidden from due diligence, is AL suing Corney? 2. Assuming shortfall in 1 is recovered, what is the % ratio of playing budget to annual income? 3. Where do we compare against other L2 clubs on playing budget - is ALs demand of promotion realistic? 4. What is AL doing to generate income to increase playing budget - external investment i.e. does he network with Saudi billionaires or was all this bullshit?! 5. Are there funds available in January? 6. FB “for now” - is this performance related or are there plans to overhaul coaching / management ahead of January? 7. You said day-to-day will change - when? New CEO? Outside investment? Any truth in Pearson? I very much doubt any of above will be answered conclusively come 5pm tonight. IMHO I think AL is flowering up this “I’m here long term” - he’s actively looking to mitigate his further losses by selling his share, reducing his share etc. However with no assets, who would be interested? Pearson? No chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 1 hour ago, underdog said: Barry has knowledge of our club and as a fan, would not see it in jeopardy. So if Al is tapping into that source then personally, , I am okay with this and it does help that Barry and Diane (your Trust rep) known each other via the trust connection as well. Your Trust Rep does have a dialogue and a line of communication with the owner. This is a new relationship that needs building on, you can't just go in rattling the sabre and "demanding" to know, even if you are legally entitled to know. The door rapidly gets shut....we have learned this lesson the hard way from Barry's tenure with Corney and it took time to build it up again to where it was when Barry stepped down. It's about diplomacy, tact, finding a dynamic that is going to work for both parties. Getting the right people on a new OAFC Board, regular minuted meetings would help this relationship. I am hoping this will be sorted soon. Barry stepped down only because there was going to be a riot if he carried on representing the Trust at board level after the Ched Evans debacle. Barry showed then that he was willing to risk the health of the club over his own personal crusade, which he seemingly forgot when dealing with Montano and that Trust bloke who got caught with his hand in the till. A person likely to gain if the club goes bust is Barry as he can ride in on his faux white horse and volunteer to take over. It seems the Trust would still buy that. Some of us have better memories. The sooner AL stops listening to Barry, who only puts forward his own view, including when he was supposed to be representing the trust, and therefore the fans, the better. Apparently Corney and Barry hated each other but strangely they were still on the board when Corney sold to AL. I don't have someone I hate on the board of the business I run unless I have to, Corney didn't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 50 minutes ago, kowenicki said: You missed the bit where I say, and have been saying for years, that they are hugely conflicted...they are limited in what they can tell us as board members of a private limited company. Regarding questions and communication with the owner...I’m happy if they are happy. If they sense a closing down of communication, obstinance and awkwardness I’m sure they will say. Otherwise, leave it to them to ask questions that are relevant and are timely. They aren’t idiots or mugs. I have been struggling with the words over the last few posts above yours has summed up it up for me. - thanks Conflict is right...we have been and possible will be in no mans land/the buffer zone between managing fans expectations, to club board level and how we sew the two together. With always the well being of the club and its employees paramount. We were hoping to pull this all together this season with us concentrating on membership, website/media, events, fans bar....but we are still in a period of transition until things settle at the club. I accept we all thought this would be done now, crystal ball and all. The Trust rep is on the board of OAFC and has the legal responsibilities for the club. They have entitlement to know how the business is being run, the finances etc . The Trust board are not entitled to know this information as we are not employees of the club and is sensitive information and not for public consumption...sorry but it is what it is. We do however get feedback/overviews/updates or whatever you want to call it from your rep and can/will act on those facts if we have to. I emphasize facts. Your Trust rep like her predecessors before her are no fools. Diane has been on the Trust board since its inception and has been involved since Moore, Corney and now Al and is a know face around the club to employees on and off the pitch. I have confidence in her knowledge from the two previous owners and her predecessors that she can recognise those warning signs/key markers and now with our membership of Supporters Direct, can access not only advice but legal advice as they have helped other Trust like Blackpool and Carlilse. Great work done by Jorvik and Andy B as is something we did not have twelve months ago when Simon Brooke was struggling to get his entitlement at board level and asking those difficult questions did get him frozen out and took a personal toll on him....something we are not prepared to put another Trust rep through if it does go sour. We had to absorb a lot from the previous owners behaviour, take ownership of when it was the right time to let that information in the public domain ...the scoreboard monies being one. Being sensible of what we could say without airing the clubs dirty washing/warts and all to the world , to cause panic would have been irresponsible without a plan of action to move forward with. Especially when people employed at the club could read it on a platform like this. The red button so to speak nearly was pushed last Summer but then Al came on the scene and a decision was made, mainly on the advice of Simon Brooke that for the benefit of the club we should not press that button and jeopadise a potential buyer. Its a thankless task for volunteers on the Trust board but we all believe our club is in a better place with Al and we support him but we will be vigilant. Please have a little faith that we all dont sit there in our cold meeting place with our rose tainted glasses. The owner, the club, the staff need time and its something we can all give with our usual 110% worth of support behind it. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 It would be nice to actually hear from the Trust rep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, rudemedic said: Barry stepped down only because there was going to be a riot if he carried on representing the Trust at board level after the Ched Evans debacle. Barry showed then that he was willing to risk the health of the club over his own personal crusade, which he seemingly forgot when dealing with Montano and that Trust bloke who got caught with his hand in the till. A person likely to gain if the club goes bust is Barry as he can ride in on his faux white horse and volunteer to take over. It seems the Trust would still buy that. Some of us have better memories. The sooner AL stops listening to Barry, who only puts forward his own view, including when he was supposed to be representing the trust, and therefore the fans, the better. Apparently Corney and Barry hated each other but strangely they were still on the board when Corney sold to AL. I don't have someone I hate on the board of the business I run unless I have to, Corney didn't have to. Yep I get what your saying with regards to Barry's history. Its a doubled edge sword, but Id rather him be around the club currently, just in case any more historic stuff comes up that he can explain to the authorities (think HMRC) better as he has been around the whole of Corney's tenure. I genuinely believe he would not see our club cease to exist. Maybe I being naive on Barry's current role..whatever it is. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, deyres42 said: It would be nice to actually hear from the Trust rep... I raised this at our last meeting. Simon Brooke early in his tenure started to do quarterly blogs....its something I asked we start to do again and we were going to match it up with a membership push this season So thanks glad we are thinking on the same wave length Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, underdog said: Yep I get what your saying with regards to Barry's history. Its a doubled edge sword, but Id rather him be around the club currently, just in case any more historic stuff comes up that he can explain to the authorities (think HMRC) better as he has been around the whole of Corney's tenure. I genuinely believe he would not see our club cease to exist. Maybe I being naive on Barry's current role..whatever it is. Thanks HMRC are taking a lot of time with this. They must ne ploughing through a lot of information before coming to a decision. After all this time they must have found something we won't like. I know they are short staffed, but even so it's taking ages. Does anyone know how long these kind of investigations normally last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 30 minutes ago, underdog said: Yep I get what your saying with regards to Barry's history. Its a doubled edge sword, but Id rather him be around the club currently, just in case any more historic stuff comes up that he can explain to the authorities (think HMRC) better as he has been around the whole of Corney's tenure. I genuinely believe he would not see our club cease to exist. Maybe I being naive on Barry's current role..whatever it is. Thanks Only thing Barry has learned in my opinion is how not to run a club, generally when locals are brought on board to run a football club they bring something to the table in a professional capacity, in my opinion this bloke brings nothing other than his weird fascination for signing ex cons and sticking his nose into matters he knows little about, he should never be trusted with recruiting players yet is somehow trusted in this and has been instrumental in some shite signing or re signing for us in recent seasons like Croft and Brown for instance before Kelly had even got his foot in the door and the shit that followed when he wanted Dunn in the job. Club needs a fresh start and bringing back all the chumps associated with the last regime will make it very difficult for the club to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 31 minutes ago, al_bro said: HMRC are taking a lot of time with this. They must ne ploughing through a lot of information before coming to a decision. After all this time they must have found something we won't like. I know they are short staffed, but even so it's taking ages. Does anyone know how long these kind of investigations normally last? I do ask this question at our monthly meetings with regards to the club hearing anything As of this week the club had not heard anything. I am lead to believe there is no statute of limitations/cut off date to when situations like this can be closed down from/to. I back Al_Bro up on the question...does anyone have any knowledge on how this could pan out..length of time? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: Only thing Barry has learned in my opinion is how not to run a club, generally when locals are brought on board to run a football club they bring something to the table in a professional capacity, in my opinion this bloke brings nothing other than his weird fascination for signing ex cons and sticking his nose into matters he knows little about, he should never be trusted with recruiting players yet is somehow trusted in this and has been instrumental in some shite signing or re signing for us in recent seasons like Croft and Brown for instance before Kelly had even got his foot in the door and the shit that followed when he wanted Dunn in the job. Club needs a fresh start and bringing back all the chumps associated with the last regime will make it very difficult for the club to move on. That first sentence with regards to how a clubs run, is why Barry supported Simon Brooke in the Board room with regards to the tough questions....that is not common knowledge especially when it started to get personal with the Trust Rep and ex owner. But I do take your other comments on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticsmarra Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 3 hours ago, underdog said: Barry has knowledge of our club and as a fan, would not see it in jeopardy. So if Al is tapping into that source then personally, , I am okay with this and it does help that Barry and Diane (your Trust rep) known each other via the trust connection as well. Your Trust Rep does have a dialogue and a line of communication with the owner. This is a new relationship that needs building on, you can't just go in rattling the sabre and "demanding" to know, even if you are legally entitled to know. The door rapidly gets shut....we have learned this lesson the hard way from Barry's tenure with Corney and it took time to build it up again to where it was when Barry stepped down. It's about diplomacy, tact, finding a dynamic that is going to work for both parties. Getting the right people on a new OAFC Board, regular minuted meetings would help this relationship. I am hoping this will be sorted soon. For some reason Al, likes our club, like us fans, wants to get us to a better place and has splashed the cash so far. OAFC is a business, any other business we wouldn't be arsed knowing the ins and outs about it all, but its also our club, our 90 minute escape, our passion so we do care and want to know its being looked after and continues to exist. Like every other fan, i am curious to hear the rest of todays interview and of course, get 3 points afterwards. Thanks for your response Tracy,I suppose the message I am getting is that we need to look forward with blind hope that better days are ahead, starting with a victory today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, laticsmarra said: Thanks for your response Tracy,I suppose the message I am getting is that we need to look forward with blind hope that better days are ahead, starting with a victory today. ohhhhh....i hope. Be interesting to hear todays Radio interview...but like Kowenicki has said bad bloody timing sticking it on when we are either on our way to the ground or in it at half time..tut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Apparently Shrewsbury had a 1.2mil budget last season. Ours was 2.8mil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 In the interview. Why did you sack Wellens? Because we got relegated. (With a budget of 2.8 million.) Yet Eyrsey thinks he didn’t fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Never knew this had any legs to it...Chinese Consortium If only??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor evil Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Wardie said: Never knew this had any legs to it...Chinese Consortium If only??? Their due diligence must have been more diligent than AL's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 3 hours ago, al_bro said: ....The reality is as TTA found out, it won't happen because the good people of Oldham have no interest in the club.... You see, I was with you till that point.... it’s not the people of Oldham’s fault TTA financial plans were based on access to liquidity that dried up following the global crash in 2007 & their personal wealth was affected / not substantial enough to ride it out. It’s also not the people of Oldham’s fault that they made some poor decisions and were using Boundary Park as their personal insurance policy. No, TTA fancied playing at football ownership on the basis of owing land. Hull City had a very fortunate escape and in this regard and struck gold with Allam. The club could sustain 15-20k fans per week & compete at Championship level - you only have to look at the 90s for evidence of that. Unfortunately, it’s going require an owner with robust medium-long term plan and reasonable amount of Capital Expenditure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 21 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said: You see, I was with you till that point.... it’s not the people of Oldham’s fault TTA financial plans were based on access to liquidity that dried up following the global crash in 2007 & their personal wealth was affected / not substantial enough to ride it out. It’s also not the people of Oldham’s fault that they made some poor decisions and were using Boundary Park as their personal insurance policy. No, TTA fancied playing at football ownership on the basis of owing land. Hull City had a very fortunate escape and in this regard and struck gold with Allam. The club could sustain 15-20k fans per week & compete at Championship level - you only have to look at the 90s for evidence of that. Unfortunately, it’s going require an owner with sollid medium-long term plan and reasonable amount of Capital Expenditure. That was nearly 30 years ago! Most of those who went then have either moved away, lost interest, got other commitments or, sadly, kicked the bucket since then, I'm afraid. I'm with al_bro - the blaming the TTA for lost fans argument doesn't hold any real water, because the Oldham public never really met them half-way when offers were on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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