Takeover / New Investment - What Rumours Have You Heard?

[singe]

1 hour ago, kowenicki said:

 

Robbing Peter to pay Paul when Peter is just pension contributions is hardly going to work is it.  We are talking a few percent of the wages bill. 

This is the worry for me.
2018 Walsall's annual pension contributions to playing and non playing staff & Directors were 37,000. Norwich was a shade over £100,000 by way of a comparison.

Lets take Walsall as broadly similar, that is a tad over 3,000  a month.
And he struggled with that, is a worry? Unless, like Swindon in 2016, which was more than a month, amounted to £1300 and they got hit with a £23k fine, but that wa for Auto-enrolment issues.

 

One point of note,  that may be relevant, was that both Walsall and Norwich's contributions shot up from 2017 to 2018. Norwichs by 25%, Walsalls by  50%. Is that the reason, and one of these "hidden" issues? Clearly more a cash flow issue though.

[underdog]

3 hours ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

 

It would be great to know [by hearing from the Trust rep on the board] that he actually has one Tracy..... and to be told about the basic tenets of it.

I agree, I am like every fan we want to hear great but a realistic plan of the vision, of where the owner would like to see us, how he can get us there with our support along the way.

 

My personal view is that the historic stuff, change to personnel at the club, removal of the previous board (last one stubbornly did not leave until May and had to be voted/removed off), recruitment of a new board, cash flow in/change to back accounts etc has put that plan/vision back. I know I keep mentioning it but the HMRC raid from last Nov has still to be resolved so he will  and the club will need all the ducks in a row/evidence of when that one comes.

 

I know I would be loathed to roll out a plan with possible future timescales if hurdles keep cropping up to put it back, you get beaten up with that stick because you did.

 

My feeling is that it is "calming" if that is the word, down. The wheels of routine are slowly turning at the club with regards to what bill is due when and should be paid when.

 

I missed the snippet of yesterdays interview, I believe there is more on the radio tomorrow and the questions were sent in by fans. Off the top of my head he has at least invested £3 million in our club....there will be conspiracies about why but surely we can give him some time and support but of course being vigilant

[latics22]

1 hour ago, underdog said:

I agree, I am like every fan we want to hear great but a realistic plan of the vision, of where the owner would like to see us, how he can get us there with our support along the way.

 

My personal view is that the historic stuff, change to personnel at the club, removal of the previous board (last one stubbornly did not leave until May and had to be voted/removed off), recruitment of a new board, cash flow in/change to back accounts etc has put that plan/vision back. I know I keep mentioning it but the HMRC raid from last Nov has still to be resolved so he will  and the club will need all the ducks in a row/evidence of when that one comes.

 

I know I would be loathed to roll out a plan with possible future timescales if hurdles keep cropping up to put it back, you get beaten up with that stick because you did.

 

My feeling is that it is "calming" if that is the word, down. The wheels of routine are slowly turning at the club with regards to what bill is due when and should be paid when.

 

I missed the snippet of yesterdays interview, I believe there is more on the radio tomorrow and the questions were sent in by fans. Off the top of my head he has at least invested £3 million in our club....there will be conspiracies about why but surely we can give him some time and support but of course being vigilant

This is me speaking out loud not disagreeing with you. If there wasn’t anything else ie so many disgruntled players and staff, roumours of pension not being paid, media people very fond of the club over the pinch me years speaking out on twitter, missed payment of wages. I would agree cut him a bit more slack but there has been FAR too much smoke, so there must be something in it. The guy is either unbelievable unlucky, hard done by and royally stictched up or he is a total nightmare. Hofully somewhere in the middle and he can still sort this shit storm out.

[the_mighty_bosh]

1 hour ago, underdog said:

I agree, I am like every fan we want to hear great but a realistic plan of the vision, of where the owner would like to see us, how he can get us there with our support along the way.

 

My personal view is that the historic stuff, change to personnel at the club, removal of the previous board (last one stubbornly did not leave until May and had to be voted/removed off), recruitment of a new board, cash flow in/change to back accounts etc has put that plan/vision back. I know I keep mentioning it but the HMRC raid from last Nov has still to be resolved so he will  and the club will need all the ducks in a row/evidence of when that one comes.

 

I know I would be loathed to roll out a plan with possible future timescales if hurdles keep cropping up to put it back, you get beaten up with that stick because you did.

 

My feeling is that it is "calming" if that is the word, down. The wheels of routine are slowly turning at the club with regards to what bill is due when and should be paid when.

 

I missed the snippet of yesterdays interview, I believe there is more on the radio tomorrow and the questions were sent in by fans. Off the top of my head he has at least invested £3 million in our club....there will be conspiracies about why but surely we can give him some time and support but of course being vigilant

 

These are fair comments.

 

I absolutely understand not wanting to put timescales on things as they can be used as a stick to beat people with.  But here are my issues with the direction the club is currently going in.

 

My belief at the start of the season was that our squad was a mid-table one, possibly pushing towards the playoffs if Bunn got a tune out of them.  But that we also had a trapdoor under our feet in the form of the off-the-field problems that could resurface at any time.  It's why I wasn't surprised that a lot of pundits were predicting us to be fighting relegation and why my expectations of a promotion season were tempered.

 

I wouldn't mind if we were saying that the off-the-field issues would take time to be sorted before we could really push forward and up the league.  But AL said that the aim was promotion at the start of the season, then that problems off-the-pitch with wages were sorted in September, and now that he expected us to be higher up the league than we are.  If things really are that bad behind the scenes then it's completely naive for any owner to talk about promotion until it's sorted.

 

The other big issue is the Andy Rhodes sacking.  Maybe the reasons for doing it were justified (I'm far from convinced), but either way he's made it impossible to judge Bunn as he really isn't giving him a fair crack at the job.  It would be fairer to Bunn to sack both of them and start afresh, by no means a good way to run a club but much better than to tie Bunn's hands behind his back.

 

These things make it look like he's either being badly advised or not advised at all.  This is why I agree with lookersstandandy about the plan.  If there was a realistic strategy for taking us a step backwards before going 2 steps forward, I really believe that most fans would understand due to the shit that went on in the previous regime and back him for at least the medium term. 

 

What we've got so far though is an owner who expects success despite cutting the budget significantly, having trouble paying the bills and leaving the management team in limbo for seemingly tenuous reasons.  It's a recipe for disaster.

[rudemedic]

1 hour ago, underdog said:

 

My personal view is that the historic stuff, change to personnel at the club, removal of the previous board (last one stubbornly did not leave until May and had to be voted/removed off), recruitment of a new board, cash flow in/change to back accounts etc has put that plan/vision back. I know I keep mentioning it but the HMRC raid from last Nov has still to be resolved so he will  and the club will need all the ducks in a row/evidence of when that one comes.

There's still a member of the old board acting in a (unofficial) board role. 

 

That member may have left temporarily, but he is still there and has been responsible for key decision(s) that aren't working out. Until such time as that board member leaves, for good, I have no faith that things will run better. 

 

AL has sacked an awful lot of key club personnel from Corney's time. The HMRC raid from last November shouldn't be his concern, I don't know enough about how the law works to know if it is his concern, but I would hope not. I can fully appreciate that AL may be balancing the books in some ways but he was around the club when HMRC raided last November, he still went ahead with the purchase. 

 

I'm sure we all want the club to be successful, and AL is on paper a better chance than the previous owners. However, there comes a time that when you brought a pup despite hearing lots of barking you have to admit you messed up. 

[Dave_Og]

1 hour ago, rudemedic said:

. The HMRC raid from last November shouldn't be his concern, I don't know enough about how the law works to know if it is his concern, but I would hope not.

 

 

It would be very much his concern.  Quite possibly others from the previous regime in a personal capacity but it would be the club that is in trouble as the legal entity involved if it went bad.

[PlayItLivo]

8 hours ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

Well described. To be fair, if it is ego alone that is his motivation, I guess that's better than other more nefarious motives......

 

This is it really. I don’t understand why people think they’re criticising him when the jist of the criticism is something like “This Abdallah fella, he’s just an amibitious foreigner who wants a go at running a football club, he’s seen it with City, Cardiff and Leicester and wants a go himself, thinks it’ll be fun and he’ll make a bit of money”

 

They’re like some of the best reasons to buy a football club.

 

 

 

[lookersstandandy]

22 minutes ago, PlayItLivo said:

 

This is it really. I don’t understand why people think they’re criticising him when the jist of the criticism is something like “This Abdallah fella, he’s just an amibitious foreigner who wants a go at running a football club, he’s seen it with City, Cardiff and Leicester and wants a go himself, thinks it’ll be fun and he’ll make a bit of money”

 

They’re like some of the best reasons to buy a football club.

 

....it’s not critical to want to understand his motives though. 

 

He’s - evidently - not as wealthy as Sheikh Mansoor, Vichai Srivaddhanaprbha or Vincent Tan, which significantly decreases his ability to ‘have fun’. Citeh, Leicester & Cardiff are all situated in Cities with larger catchments and all own(ed) their own land/Stadia....

 

....therefore it does still beg the question, why?

[rudemedic]

1 hour ago, Dave_Og said:

 

It would be very much his concern.  Quite possibly others from the previous regime in a personal capacity but it would be the club that is in trouble as the legal entity involved if it went bad.

Worrying. Adds evidence towards those who are questioning his motives.

[deyres42]

20 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

....it’s not critical to want to understand his motives though. 

 

He’s - evidently - not as wealthy as Sheikh Mansoor, Vichai Srivaddhanaprbha or Vincent Tan, which significantly decreases his ability to ‘have fun’. Citeh, Leicester & Cardiff are all situated in Cities with larger catchments and all own(ed) their own land/Stadia....

 

....therefore it does still beg the question, why?

Why does there have to be a reason at all? People do mental stuff in all facets of life every day.

 

He evidently isn't a multi millionaire so little of the contents of your plan will come to fruition.

 

He'll be here for a period of time and then the mantle will be passed onto to somebody else.

[lookersstandandy]

30 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Why does there have to be a reason at all? People do mental stuff in all facets of life every day.....

 

....oh good. He’s mental. That’s cheered me right up.

[Whitts]

There is no business logic why anyone, who is not a fan, would  invest millions into a struggling club with debts and a loyal(ish) fan base currently around 4000.  However, he has bought into the club and so he has my support.   I really hope he can turn this great club of ours around but to be fair the fans also have a part to play.  We may not be able to influence matters at board level but we can keep attending games and supporting the club..  I know times are tough and the club is at a low point but we all have to pull together if it is to have a future.  

[GlossopLatic]

In terms of why he is here well I do clearly believe he loves football and loves the idea of running a football club. Im sure deep down its an ambition of all of us to lead this club to glory again.

 

Whats concerning is how grossly underprepared and naive he has been for the challenge he has taken on.

 

Corney made it clear that the club was for sale for the best part of a decade since Blitz and Gazal "cut ties" a number of rumours of potential owners surfaced over the years. Many of them appeared to have been put off. Its quite possible that they gave the club much greater scrutiny before thinking about making an offer.

 

This football club is only going to keep costing him money for aslong as his name is above the door so I hope he isnt spent up yet and he is ready for the journey ahead. Im concerned that he isn't.

[laticsmarra]

AL had unbelievable access to the club for 3 months prior to acquisition, even to the extent of recruiting his own players.Together with the Due Diligence carried out by his advisors there shouldnt have been many major surprises. Much of his noise about things being worse than he imagined dont wash with me.They are a smokescreen to cover up his own incompetence,he is out of his depth.

[laticsmarra]

21 hours ago, underdog said:

I am not entitled to known nor do I know of  Tony's case and even if I did I wouldn't comment on social media. If you do, do you want to tell us why you think he has been treated unfairly?

 

The Trust are here to ensure the club continues to exist, there is nothing to suggest at this moment in time that it suddenly won't. There are people in situ that are in and around the club on a daily basis, that have been through the last 14 years since its inception. That has support itself from an outside organisation, Supporters Direct, who have helped various other Trusts when asked.

 

The previous owner made it difficult for your Trust Rep and not welcoming , the new Owner is the opposite. 

 

We are fans we are passionate about our club, we want to know all, jump on anything news worth that comes out of our club especially the way modern social media is where anything posted is around the world in seconds. At the end of the day its a business and its Al's business.

 

I am prepared to see where we are in January, I don't think its asking too much to see where we are up to his first year in after several years of neglect

 

 

 

 

We just want a Trust that holds the current owner to account. That is not happening,we can't even get a representative on the Board.To hide behind the fact that Barry Owen is in and around the club,effectively running it day to day, is unbelievable.

[OAFCinWolves]

May be he is super rich and is taking us to the brink to see if we are worthy and who he can trust before blasting us to the promise land ......I wish

[underdog]

12 hours ago, laticsmarra said:

We just want a Trust that holds the current owner to account. That is not happening,we can't even get a representative on the Board.To hide behind the fact that Barry Owen is in and around the club,effectively running it day to day, is unbelievable.

Barry has knowledge of our club and as a fan, would not see it in jeopardy. So if Al is tapping into that source then personally, , I am okay with this and it does help that Barry and Diane (your Trust rep) known each other via the trust connection as well. 

 

Your Trust Rep does have a dialogue and a line of communication with the owner. This is a new relationship that needs building on, you can't just go in rattling the sabre and "demanding" to know, even if you are legally entitled to know. The door rapidly gets shut....we have learned this lesson the hard way from Barry's tenure with Corney and it took time to build it up again to where it was when Barry stepped down.  It's about diplomacy, tact, finding a dynamic that is going to work for both parties. Getting the right people on a new OAFC Board, regular minuted meetings would help this relationship. I am hoping this will be sorted soon.

 

For some reason Al, likes our club, like us fans, wants to get us to a better place and has splashed the cash so far.

 

OAFC is a business, any other business we wouldn't be arsed knowing the ins and outs about it all, but its also our club, our 90 minute escape, our passion so we do care and want to know its being looked after and continues to exist.

 

Like every other fan, i am curious to hear the rest of todays interview and of course, get 3 points afterwards.

 

 

 

 

 

[kowenicki]

12 minutes ago, underdog said:

Barry has knowledge of our club and as a fan, would not see it in jeopardy. So if Al is tapping into that source then personally, , I am okay with this and it does help that Barry and Diane (your Trust rep) known each other via the trust connection as well. 

 

Your Trust Rep does have a dialogue and a line of communication with the owner. This is a new relationship that needs building on, you can't just go in rattling the sabre and "demanding" to know, even if you are legally entitled to know. The door rapidly gets shut....we have learned this lesson the hard way from Barry's tenure with Corney and it took time to build it up again to where it was when Barry stepped down.  It's about diplomacy, tact, finding a dynamic that is going to work for both parties. Getting the right people on a new OAFC Board, regular minuted meetings would help this relationship. I am hoping this will be sorted soon.

 

For some reason Al, likes our club, like us fans, wants to get us to a better place and has splashed the cash so far.

 

OAFC is a business, any other business we wouldn't be arsed knowing the ins and outs about it all, but its also our club, our 90 minute escape, our passion so we do care and want to know its being looked after and continues to exist.

 

Like every other fan, i am curious to hear the rest of todays interview and of course, get 3 points afterwards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not to sound patronising, but your recent posts have been very good. 

[underdog]

1 minute ago, kowenicki said:

 

Not to sound patronising, but your recent posts have been very good. 

Old age,  looming redundancy with a dash or realism....hahah.....or madness? oh dear...taxi for Tracy....

 

I don't get the keyboard warrior stuff, the name calling etc....I tend to post what I feel...sometimes I agree i can be reactive if I feel I am under attack a bit.... grrrrrrrrrr and all. But its stuff i would genuinely say in a conversation we would be having face to face.

 

Cheers for the comments...I  think we have all tried to be a bit nicer since opinions4you passing away and thats a nice legacy to leave behind in a sometimes cruel world.

 

Bloody hope we can muster up a decent game today....I will be digging my thermals out soon hahah

 

 

 

 

[mcfluff1985]

20 minutes ago, underdog said:

This is a new relationship that needs building on, you can't just go in rattling the sabre and "demanding" to know, even if you are legally entitled to know. The door rapidly gets shut....

May as well fold the trust. Used to think it was a good idea but it's looking more and more like an absolutely pointless exercise. 

 

Don't ask the tough questions because don't want to be frozen out. 

 

What is the point? If you're too scared to go and demand to know what you're legally entitled to then do you honestly think there is any point continuing? Toothless

[underdog]

2 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

May as well fold the trust. Used to think it was a good idea but it's looking more and more like an absolutely pointless exercise. 

 

Don't ask the tough questions because don't want to be frozen out. 

 

What is the point? If you're too scared to go and demand to know what you're legally entitled to then do you honestly think there is any point continuing? Toothless

We are not going to see eye to eye on this.

 

Better a foot in the door than not, in my opinion. Questions have been asked assurances have been given. 

 

Most fans at other clubs would be envious of having this knowledge/insight on their club and that is why Supporters Direct changed their membership criteria so we could join as a Limited company.

 

So please tell me how would you approach our owner in the exact same circumstances as now, your newly appointed, you have a new owner in place? Genuinely interested on your thoughts - thanks

[archiecat]

All very much like a one legged Duck,round and round !

People sometimes forget that a conclusion that is jumped to is sometimes right.Especially one that encounters very little in the way of hard facts to dismiss it.

Trust are told then subsequently believe that black is white and that you will fall off the edge of the world if you sail too far out to sea. 

Fans see reports of cock up after cock up,Irrational behaviour and financial shortcomings then smell a rat !

 

 

[mcfluff1985]

2 minutes ago, underdog said:

We are not going to see eye to eye on this.

 

Better a foot in the door than not, in my opinion. Why? If you cant ask the tough questions or properly find out what is going in it could be too late for you to act.

   

Questions have been asked assurances have been given. how did that go? "Is everything ok AL"? "Yes" "ok thanks"

 

 

 

Most fans at other clubs would be envious of having this knowledge/insight on their club and that is why Supporters Direct changed their membership criteria so we could join as a Limited company. Why? How has having the trust benefited us over the last 14 years? Apparently you were close to "pushing the red button" last season. Didn't tell the fans though. Pointless

 

So please tell me how would you approach our owner in the exact same circumstances as now, your newly appointed, you have a new owner in place? Genuinely interested on your thoughts - thanks. Well he's either open to communication or he isn't. You keep saying he is. So you ask the questions you need to ask and if you're not getting them answered you tell the fans who can then help put pressure on him if need be. If you're not asking the questions you obviously feel you should be asking then what is the point?

 

[kowenicki]

20 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

May as well fold the trust. Used to think it was a good idea but it's looking more and more like an absolutely pointless exercise. 

 

Don't ask the tough questions because don't want to be frozen out. 

 

What is the point? If you're too scared to go and demand to know what you're legally entitled to then do you honestly think there is any point continuing? Toothless

 

Diplomacy is an essential part of business. If you storm in to a board meetings demanding and shouting, you will get nowhere.  

 

If you get to the point where you are referring to points of law to ask for information you may as well give up. 

 

I’ve been critical of the Trust in the past because I think they are massively conflicted, but this doesn’t mean they can’t be useful and can’t cajole the owner in ways we would all appreciate. 

 

The Trust is not a Union making demands to the ‘management’. That would be a very counter productive approach. (Although I know that would be a popular approach with some on this forum... comrades.)

 

 

 

[kowenicki]

6 minutes ago, archiecat said:

All very much like a one legged Duck,round and round !

People sometimes forget that a conclusion that is jumped to is sometimes right.Especially one that encounters very little in the way of hard facts to dismiss it.

Trust are told then subsequently believe that black is white and that you will fall off the edge of the world if you sail too far out to sea. 

Fans see reports of cock up after cock up,Irrational behaviour and financial shortcomings then smell a rat !

 

 

 

...And sometimes it’s wrong. Time will tell.