BPAS Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 Two wins in a week have given us a fighting chance of staying up. So in the week when the club put 2022/23 season tickets on sale & the deadline for particulars to be filed at court passed, conversation turns to what you can do to 'Save Your Club' & what the £1m+ contingency fund target could be used for. You can now support the pod by paying a monthly subscription of just £2.99 via this link https://anchor.fm/bp-alert/subscribe. All the regular episodes will remain free to everyone. You can also support us by visiting https://www.oafcpodcast.co.uk, subscribing to our mailing list and purchasing from our online shop. Follow the show on Twitter, Instagram & Facebook @oafcpodcast. Download and listen to the podcast via the FanHub app, where content creators and fans alike are rewarded for getting involved #ctg. You can find out more about Push The Boundary by visiting them at www.pushtheboundary.co.uk and following on Twitter @PTB_OAFC. Find out more about OASF at www.oldhamathleticsupportersfoundation.com where you can also donate to the 1895 Fund. Title music is by Manchester DJ and producer Starion find out more at www.redlaserrecords.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 20 minutes ago, BPAS said: the deadline for particulars to be filed at court passed, ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mikey Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 Great episode. A lot of chat on this board recently about season tickets. As in most things in life, we all think our view is the correct one. The views expressed in today's podcast sum up my own ones perfectly. KTF Abdallah out! Statue for Shez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 So court papers unlikely to be in place before the season ends. It's almost as if it's been designed to be after the end of the season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basilrobbie Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 Another good listen. On the court issue - we've obviously got a lot of practical experience of this. In our case, we had two cases (one in Manchester, the other at the Rolls Building). Then there were appeals, costs hearings, revised orders and God knows what else. So the total time in court ended up being around 30 days or so spread over at least a year (probably more). We established a rota of people to be present at every day to take notes, which appeared on the main supporters message board on the same evening as the proceedings they related to (after being suitably vetted). That went down extremely well with the fan base, but is very hard work. A typical court day involves around five hours of evidence giving and anyone who does note taking has to contend with the fact that m'learned friends are discussing papers that you aren't seeing yourselves. But it can be done and makes sure that fans have a clear insight into what is happening. Our main case was one where there were at least eight or ten key witnesses and at least one of them gave evidence for three full days. Hopefully you won't have anything like that to cope with. The reason I mention this is that it might be dangerous to assume that the local paper will definitely cover it. Our local rag is owned by a firm based in the South East and their presence in court in the early part of proceedings was unreliable, to say the least. We felt we could only rely upon ourselves to cover it all properly. One procedural point - I don't know how COVID has changed things, but in our experience August and September were dead months because the High Court was in recess. That may not be the case now, given the huge backlogs there are, but it might be wise to check. I thought the discussion about resilience and combat fatigue had a strong resonance - a long drawn out campaign is very draining and even a small number of people coming forward to offer time and relevant expertise can make such a difference. Having gone through the due diligence on the "pledge" idea ourselves we know that it is a deceptively simple idea that will need care, attention and a lot of effort to deliver and whilst we didn't in the end take the concept forward we put a lot of effort in at the front end of the process anyway. It's in the nature of the task that some of your effort doesn't lead anywhere specific - but that doesn't mean it isn't worth doing, necessarily. But it reinforces the need for as many people as possible to become involved. Final opinion from a complete outsider : I thought the Lemsagam's original statement about putting the club up for sale was deliberately ambivalent about key issues and any time line for action. As such, that, coupled with the appointment of Sheridan, looked liked a ploy to buy breathing space. I tend to regard their behaviour that you have described since in the same way that Andy does ; they look and act like people who think they can cling on, and the early sale of season tickets is not only an attempt to get financial wriggle room, it is also designed to test the resolve of the fan base. I'd be very, very hesitant about expecting a good faith response from the owners as you go into the summer. I hope I am completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 12 minutes ago, basilrobbie said: Final opinion from a complete outsider : I thought the Lemsagam's original statement about putting the club up for sale was deliberately ambivalent about key issues and any time line for action. As such, that, coupled with the appointment of Sheridan, looked liked a ploy to buy breathing space. I'd have to disagree with the point about Shez's appointment for two reasons. He was the first of the busload of managers that they pissed off; technically before they actually took over but I think we all know the reality of that! And, secondly, because it was seemingly evident that his return to the club was at his instigation, not theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_latic Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 Thank you for today's podcast and making the same points I was trying to make. Regarding season tickets and the current ownership. That I got vilified for by a few on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 I really hope we can survive but it is just delaying the inevitable. If these ’s remain next season which under the current circumstances is probably nailed on, then the downward spiral will continue. We will end up with a no mark manager and yet another poor squad of players who will almost certainly spend the vast majority of the season anchored at or near to the bottom of the EFL. There will be no John Sheridan to bale us out again and we will be odds on favourites for relegation. Money from ST sales will not be reinvested in the squad and I can’t believe supporters, no matter how loyal to the club, would want to sit through another season of absolute garbage with no hope of progress whatsoever. I will not be contributing to a hopeless cause and will not be attending anymore games until they are gone. IMO we need to ramp up the protests as soon as we can become mathematically safe, hopefully, before the last couple of games! Getting these owners out of the club is the only realistic way I can see us moving forward. If we are to build a contingency fund through OASF it has to be done so as contributors have some sort of receipt/recognition for money donated and feel to be part owners of a fan owned football club. I would willingly put in my ST money if it helped get the Lemmies out of the club but wouldn’t like to throw in my money ‘Willy Nilly’ Perhaps paying in increments of £50 would be the way forward and so putting in £500 would give you the possibility of owning 10 ‘shares’ should OASF ever become part of a future consortium. Do we think this is feasible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 The worrying part of that podcast was the mention of raising £1 million to possibly be part of a consortium to buy the ground to be AL's landlord. Are we talking about giving Blitz a million here or getting involved with the FLG as only a shareholder in the ground, whilst they own the businesses within the ground that have the opportunity to make money, Not for me that, if we were talking increasing shareholding in the club itself, different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 5 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: I really hope we can survive but it is just delaying the inevitable. If these ’s remain next season which under the current circumstances is probably nailed on, then the downward spiral will continue. We will end up with a no mark manager and yet another poor squad of players who will almost certainly spend the vast majority of the season anchored at or near to the bottom of the EFL. There will be no John Sheridan to bale us out again and we will be odds on favourites for relegation. Money from ST sales will not be reinvested in the squad and I can’t believe supporters, no matter how loyal to the club, would want to sit through another season of absolute garbage with no hope of progress whatsoever. I will not be contributing to a hopeless cause and will not be attending anymore games until they are gone. IMO we need to ramp up the protests as soon as we can become mathematically safe, hopefully, before the last couple of games! Getting these owners out of the club is the only realistic way I can see us moving forward. If we are to build a contingency fund through OASF it has to be done so as contributors have some sort of receipt/recognition for money donated and feel to be part owners of a fan owned football club. I would willingly put in my ST money if it helped get the Lemmies out of the club but wouldn’t like to throw in my money ‘Willy Nilly’ Perhaps paying in increments of £50 would be the way forward and so putting in £500 would give you the possibility of owning 10 ‘shares’ should OASF ever become part of a future consortium. Do we think this is feasible? I agree with most of this, particularly the not buying season ticket piece, however our immediate aim must be to stay up, whatever it takes. Attending as many of the last few games as possible and backing the club in numbers will help the team, but not the Lemmys that much, so our priority must be, like on Saturday, to back the team 100% until May 7th. Relegation with these clowns in charge would I fear be the end of us as we would be a further 400k ish out of pocket losing the EFL payments as the podcast suggests. At least staying up might buy us a bit more time to find a new owner, and sort out our future in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 I meant to say I won’t attend games as soon as our division next season is confirmed….I only started going to games after Shez arrived and like you believe staying in this division is absolutely paramount! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 24 minutes ago, Londonboy said: Relegation with these clowns in charge would I fear be the end of us as we would be a further 400k ish out of pocket losing the EFL payments as the podcast suggests. Or we go into admin, AL loses everything and the club/badge is moved on for what it’s worth- nothing. Relegation is a disaster footballing wise, off the field it could be our salvation in the long term and rid us of the ludicrous proposition we find ourselves in. Asking 5/6 million for something that is worthless. And to those that say- he could just cut his cloth again, yes he could, but he would still need to replace some of 400k to get any team out in NL - something he clearly isn’t prepared to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamoafc Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 2 hours ago, PeteG said: The worrying part of that podcast was the mention of raising £1 million to possibly be part of a consortium to buy the ground to be AL's landlord. Are we talking about giving Blitz a million here or getting involved with the FLG as only a shareholder in the ground, whilst they own the businesses within the ground that have the opportunity to make money, Not for me that, if we were talking increasing shareholding in the club itself, different story. It’s either money in AL’s or Blitz. Anything other than buying AL out is a waste. In regards to getting involved with other parties. It’s not limited to the FLG. It’s any organisation which may want to form a consortium. There are no suggestions off the table for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 2 hours ago, League one forever said: Or we go into admin, AL loses everything and the club/badge is moved on for what it’s worth- nothing. Relegation is a disaster footballing wise, off the field it could be our salvation in the long term and rid us of the ludicrous proposition we find ourselves in. Asking 5/6 million for something that is worthless. And to those that say- he could just cut his cloth again, yes he could, but he would still need to replace some of 400k to get any team out in NL - something he clearly isn’t prepared to do. Admin in our situation could very quickly be followed by liquidation = North West Counties League Division 1 North as Bury (Level 10 I think....so 6 promotions off where we are now!) we'd There is no ideal situation bar a multi million pound buyer turning up unfortunately. I just think relegation would be the end of us as we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 27 minutes ago, Londonboy said: Admin in our situation could very quickly be followed by liquidation = North West Counties League Division 1 North as Bury (Level 10 I think....so 6 promotions off where we are now!) we'd There is no ideal situation bar a multi million pound buyer turning up unfortunately. I just think relegation would be the end of us as we know it. There is no doubt about it, relegation is bleak. But I genuinely don’t think it means automatic liquidation. AL could stay and manage a further slow decline. (Most likely IMO) He could put us in admin, (but he’ll lose everything, so 50/50 and we’d need to have a buyer found lightening quick) Or he’ll sell. (Least likely) Anyway, fook this. We won at weekend, let’s ride that wave for a bit longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximus1267 Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 Just listened to that on my way back to Cumbria from London, made 5 nights of that game..... Good listen as always chaps, alot of sense, just a shame those running the club dont seem to be of the same ilk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 19 hours ago, adamoafc said: It’s either money in AL’s or Blitz. Anything other than buying AL out is a waste. In regards to getting involved with other parties. It’s not limited to the FLG. It’s any organisation which may want to form a consortium. There are no suggestions off the table for discussion. I don't see how the fans owning say 20% of the ground helps our situation at all. Say we raised a million and it goes into a 20% share of the ground what's changed? Owning 20% of the club certainly changes things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 13 minutes ago, PeteG said: I don't see how the fans owning say 20% of the ground helps our situation at all. Say we raised a million and it goes into a 20% share of the ground what's changed? Owning 20% of the club certainly changes things. Owing 20% of something is better than 20% of nothing. The ground has to come first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_latic Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, League one forever said: Owing 20% of something is better than 20% of nothing. The ground has to come first. It's much better than the 3% B shares we have currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 I disagree putting £1 million into 20% of the ground changes nothing and the money is gone. If that is in the intention i'm certainly out in putting any money in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 20 hours ago, Londonboy said: Admin in our situation could very quickly be followed by liquidation = North West Counties League Division 1 North as Bury (Level 10 I think....so 6 promotions off where we are now!) we'd There is no ideal situation bar a multi million pound buyer turning up unfortunately. I just think relegation would be the end of us as we know it. I assume you're talking about admin of "the club" ? In isolation, no big deal as "the club" doesn't own the ground etc. Very easy for a "new club" to form, Blitz to then package the whole thing as one and - bingo - we're up and running again in the same place without someone shelling out millions to the regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 27 minutes ago, wiseowl said: I assume you're talking about admin of "the club" ? In isolation, no big deal as "the club" doesn't own the ground etc. Very easy for a "new club" to form, Blitz to then package the whole thing as one and - bingo - we're up and running again in the same place without someone shelling out millions to the regime. You may be far more knowledgable than me on this topic as I am no expert, but my understanding is that its not as simple as this. When a company enters administration the control of the company is passed to the appointed administrator. The administrator's primary goal is to leverage the company's assets to repay creditors as quickly and as fully as possible. With no assets or buyer this would most likely be followed quickly by liquidation, unless AL continued to fund...again unlikely. Once liquidated "new club" would need to be reformed from the bottom up of the pyramid as I undrstand it with no ground. Anyone please correct me if any dfifferent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Londonboy said: You may be far more knowledgable than me on this topic as I am no expert, but my understanding is that its not as simple as this. When a company enters administration the control of the company is passed to the appointed administrator. The administrator's primary goal is to leverage the company's assets to repay creditors as quickly and as fully as possible. With no assets or buyer this would most likely be followed quickly by liquidation, unless AL continued to fund...again unlikely. Once liquidated "new club" would need to be reformed from the bottom up of the pyramid as I undrstand it with no ground. Anyone please correct me if any dfifferent! That's pretty much spot on, the only difference between a normal business and a football club is that there is a football creditors rule meaning that any "football debts" need to be cleared first. Unless a buyer is quickly found, liquidation would follow fairly quickly just like Macclesfield. All football debts needs to be paid In Full before the club is allowed to compete in the league again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 58 minutes ago, wiseowl said: I assume you're talking about admin of "the club" ? In isolation, no big deal as "the club" doesn't own the ground etc. Very easy for a "new club" to form, Blitz to then package the whole thing as one and - bingo - we're up and running again in the same place without someone shelling out millions to the regime. So wrong, as explained on several occasions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, PeteG said: That's pretty much spot on, the only difference between a normal business and a football club is that there is a football creditors rule meaning that any "football debts" need to be cleared first. Unless a buyer is quickly found, liquidation would follow fairly quickly just like Macclesfield. All football debts needs to be paid In Full before the club is allowed to compete in the league again. Cheers Pete - you obviously are more knowledgable on this than I am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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