GlossopLatic Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 7 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: I believe that, if we finish 15th next season, he will be sacked. I do not see anything to suggest that marginal improvements next season will keep him in a job. Exactly I'm not sure why people think the patience of the board will be inexhaustible it won't be. There is no football manager who is immune from the sack. David Unsworth will be no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: Exactly I'm not sure why people think the patience of the board will be inexhaustible it won't be. There is no football manager who is immune from the sack. David Unsworth will be no different. You don’t create a successful business over decades by giving under performing staff a free rein. Nor do you do it by making quick fire emotion-based decisions. I can see the logic in the board’s approach - this season being one of consolidation, putting processes and infrastructure in place and overhauling the squad. With the expectation that next season is very different in terms of results off the back of this. That’s what I think their plan is. I may be wrong. But I think it’s far more likely than there being zero demands or expectations placed on Unsworth for the duration of his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: Is he not playing the system(s) he plays due to the rank hand he’s got since he took over? Personally (and I know you don’t share the same opinion) I see he’s had to overhaul a team with a midfield that’s soft as shite, mid-season, in a division that’s notorious for teams high pressing and turn us into something that we can at least be equipped to compete with that. It’s not an easy task, particularly for someone with no managerial experience. I would suggest his tactics will evolve next season, boosted by several players of proper quality who can play a high pressing game. I certainly don’t expect “more of the same” but I am prepared to expect it won’t be sweet roses every week. I’m also prepared to empathise slightly with DU for this season. He needed to make us harder to beat and that clearly came at the expense of pleasing on the eye football. No, I mean stuffy 1-0 away wins is how we're going to have do it. I think he's closer to that approach to games (although Solihull and Gateshead suggest he's still not learnt how to see it out..) than the front-foot tactic (particularly at home) that he should be well on the road to discovering. The rank hand he got when he took over is more his own rank hand than not now. I don't think he's learning quick enough (if at all) about how to dominate games. He might reinvent the team over the summer and make some amazing signings to get us to that point, but for us to hit the ground next season he's going to have to pull rabbits out of hats with his learning and signings, because we're no where near what we need to be as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 22 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: Couldn’t be further from the truth this. You honestly believe a local businessman has come in, paid a small fortune to buy the club “lock, stock” and they don’t demand much? 30 odd games and over 6 months in charge and we have achieved what? We still don't even look like a team with any sort of identity or even a plan at times, in any other walk of life a manager so inept after being given so much support would be out on his ear particularly if it is always somebody else's fault. You can view it one of two ways really and whilst their loyalty could be viewed as commendable they really need to make sure that doesn't turn in to stupidity, they've probably allowed Darren Royle to take care of the football decisions up until now but I'm pretty sure that goodwill must be wearing thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 11 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: It won't be the same as this season and if it is the same Unsworth won't have a job the Rothwells won't put up with it the crowd won't put up with it. He.will.be.gone. The Royles might well be close to him and will support him as much as possible, but they have been in football long enough to understand that if we don't get results the manager will be sacked. Ofcourse the aim is promotion what do you think is going to happen do you honestly think they are not going to take it if its on offer. That we will get to the play offs do a lap of honour say job done throw the kids in for the play off games while the 1st team goes on holiday. That’s not what I said. If the target is the playoffs, then in effect you’re chasing 7th place. If we’re in the top 10, in and around the playoffs (I hate that phrase), then they may well look at it that he’s on course. If we finish eighth we’ve failed, but Unsworth may well still be here. Your scenario was that we’d either be challenging right at the top with Unsworth, or we wouldn’t and he’d be binned of around October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 38 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: 30 odd games and over 6 months in charge and we have achieved what? Safety and a consolidating season. It’s been the benchmark that’s not just been set by us. But by pretty much every team relegated from the football league in the past 10-20 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 17 minutes ago, Steve_R said: That’s not what I said. If the target is the playoffs, then in effect you’re chasing 7th place. If we’re in the top 10, in and around the playoffs (I hate that phrase), then they may well look at it that he’s on course. If we finish eighth we’ve failed, but Unsworth may well still be here. Your scenario was that we’d either be challenging right at the top with Unsworth, or we wouldn’t and he’d be binned of around October. The target will be promotion. If he isn't on track for that by the time the clocks go back he'll be gone, the baying mob will see to that. This insistence that some have that next season will just be a continuation of the current one is bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: Safety and a consolidating season. It’s been the benchmark that’s not just been set by us. But by pretty much every team relegated from the football league in the past 10-20 seasons. I doubt it but it sounds nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south east latic Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 39 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: Safety and a consolidating season. It’s been the benchmark that’s not just been set by us. But by pretty much every team relegated from the football league in the past 10-20 seasons. I’ve had a quick look to see how this stacks up. Possibly not an exhaustive list but: Bristol R 2nd, 91pts Luton 2nd, 88 pts (44 games) Notts 3rd, 63 pts (38 games) Tranmere 6th, 78 pts Grimsby 6th, 77 pts Wrexham 10th, 64 pts Grimsby 11th, 62 pts Southend 13th, 58 pts (44 games) Orient 13th, 60 pts Chesterfield 15th, 59 pts Stockport 16th, 51 pts That’s 5 in the play offs, 4 mid table and 2 lower mid table. We’re currently 15th and on course for 54 points. We’re therefore on course to have the second worst first season at this level vs that list. It’s been unacceptably poor in reality. That’s not to say we won’t challenge at the top next season but there’s not been many signs that we will be under the current manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 2 hours ago, TheBigDog said: I believe that, if we finish 15th next season, he will be sacked. I do not see anything to suggest that marginal improvements next season will keep him in a job. I agree if we finish 15th he’ll be sacked, but that’s not what the counter argument is. It’s about small improvements on this season being acceptable to the board. So if we finish 11th next season, that will be seen as building and he’ll keep his job. You don’t see ‘anything’ to suggest that those marginal improvements will keep him in the job? Ok- I’ll have a go. He’s on a three year contract. He’s been kept in the job after a horrendous run. He came in saying he was looking to get us a run - then he and the board quickly changed to- it was just about staying up. It’s indisputable his close relationship with Darren and Joe buys him more time. Unsy and Darren constantly tell us they are building something and it takes time. By the summer he will have brought in over 20 of his own players- why on earth would they sack him after 10/15 games? (Unless we are really really struggling) Everything the board do and say correlates with the above- they are calm, steady and patience. In summary as long as he’s doing ok or par he’s going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 re: southeast latic post You are ignoring Scunthorpe of course ( who will almost certainly end on fewer points) but your stats are interesting. I can’t be bothered to check but is there a correlation between seasons and performance? Did the better performances come when the NL was less competitive, fewer full time clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old codger Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 As I'm a supporter and not just a moaning fan I will renew. In the 4to7 play off mix, unless it is changed, next year whoever picks the team and tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 Unsy was asked at the forum what is the target for next season, and he said promotion. I do not believe for one second that if we miss out on the playoffs and finish 8th -12th he’ll be sacked. Season one 15th Season two 8-12th The thing is- nobody can argue that isn’t progress, the golden question is- is that enough progress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south east latic Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 30 minutes ago, LaticsPete said: re: southeast latic post You are ignoring Scunthorpe of course ( who will almost certainly end on fewer points) but your stats are interesting. I can’t be bothered to check but is there a correlation between seasons and performance? Did the better performances come when the NL was less competitive, fewer full time clubs? To a degree possibly. Can’t be bothered going back through each one again but would guess that Bristol R, Luton, Wrexham, Grimsby (11th) and Stockport were back when it was proper non league while the rest were more comparable to the league we’re playing in. I would concede that this is probably the most competitive the National League has been (alongside last season when Stockport were in it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 30 minutes ago, south east latic said: I’ve had a quick look to see how this stacks up. Possibly not an exhaustive list but: Bristol R 2nd, 91pts Luton 2nd, 88 pts (44 games) Notts 3rd, 63 pts (38 games) Tranmere 6th, 78 pts Grimsby 6th, 77 pts Wrexham 10th, 64 pts Grimsby 11th, 62 pts Southend 13th, 58 pts (44 games) Orient 13th, 60 pts Chesterfield 15th, 59 pts Stockport 16th, 51 pts That’s 5 in the play offs, 4 mid table and 2 lower mid table. We’re currently 15th and on course for 54 points. We’re therefore on course to have the second worst first season at this level vs that list. It’s been unacceptably poor in reality. That’s not to say we won’t challenge at the top next season but there’s not been many signs that we will be under the current manager. It's interesting isn't it? Extended it looks far more damning. Promoted clubs are in bold. 05/06 Kidderminster 15th, Cambridge 12th 06/07 Oxford 2nd (P/O not promoted), Rushden 12th 07/08 Boston (demoted), Torquay 3rd (P/O not promoted) 08/09 Mansfield 12th, Wrexham 10th 09/10 Luton 2nd (P/O not promoted), Chester 24th (R) 10/11 Darlington 7th, Grimsby 11th 11/12 Lincoln 17th, Stockport 16th 12/13 Hereford 6th, Macclesfield 11th 13/14 Barnet 8th, Aldershot 14th 14/15 Bristol Rovers 2nd, Torquay 13th 15/16 Cheltenham 1st, Tranmere 6th 16/17 Dagenham 4th (P/O not promoted), York 21st (R) 17/18 Leyton Orient 13th, Hartlepool 15th 18/19 Barnet 12th, Chesterfield 14th 19/20 Notts County 3rd (P/O not promoted), Yeovil 4th (P/O not promoted) 20/21 Macclesfield (folded) 21/22 Southend 13th, Grimsby 6th 33 clubs. 2 promoted. 6 achieved a play-off finish. That's a pretty terrible 'bounceback' statistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south east latic Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: It's interesting isn't it? Extended it looks far more damning. Promoted clubs are in bold. 05/06 Kidderminster 15th, Cambridge 12th 06/07 Oxford 2nd (P/O not promoted), Rushden 12th 07/08 Boston (demoted), Torquay 3rd (P/O not promoted) 08/09 Mansfield 12th, Wrexham 10th 09/10 Luton 2nd (P/O not promoted), Chester 24th (R) 10/11 Darlington 7th, Grimsby 11th 11/12 Lincoln 17th, Stockport 16th 12/13 Hereford 6th, Macclesfield 11th 13/14 Barnet 8th, Aldershot 14th 14/15 Bristol Rovers 2nd, Torquay 13th 15/16 Cheltenham 1st, Tranmere 6th 16/17 Dagenham 4th (P/O not promoted), York 21st (R) 17/18 Leyton Orient 13th, Hartlepool 15th 18/19 Barnet 12th, Chesterfield 14th 19/20 Notts County 3rd (P/O not promoted), Yeovil 4th (P/O not promoted) 20/21 Macclesfield (folded) 21/22 Southend 13th, Grimsby 6th 33 clubs. 2 promoted. 6 achieved a play-off finish. That's a pretty terrible 'bounceback' statistic. I was looking at teams I’d consider to be more comparable to us from a size point of view. Appreciate that doesn’t always correlate to success but I would expect us to do better than Kidderminster, Boston etc. No denying few go straight back up, I don’t think anyone really expected us to do that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 1 minute ago, south east latic said: I don’t think anyone really expected us to do that though. I'll counter that many expected a play-off finish, despite ignoring the fact that we were relegated in disarray with a squad ill-prepared for any success and psycologically unfit. I pretty much expected to be where we are this season and my expectations will adjust next season when a lot (not all) of the rot has been rectified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south east latic Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 Just now, Frankly Mr Shankly said: I'll counter that many expected a play-off finish, despite ignoring the fact that we were relegated in disarray with a squad ill-prepared for any success and psycologically unfit. I pretty much expected to be where we are this season and my expectations will adjust next season when a lot (not all) of the rot has been rectified. Fair enough - perhaps I’m making assumptions based on my own expectations. I expected a slow start but ultimately a top half finish and a strong end to the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 37 minutes ago, League one forever said: Unsy was asked at the forum what is the target for next season, and he said promotion. I do not believe for one second that if we miss out on the playoffs and finish 8th -12th he’ll be sacked. Season one 15th Season two 8-12th The thing is- nobody can argue that isn’t progress, the golden question is- is that enough progress? That won't be considered progress in the court of public opinion and that is ultimately what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 1 minute ago, deyres42 said: That won't be considered progress in the court of public opinion and that is ultimately what matters. Nah, what ultimately matters is what the board think, they are the decision makers. If they bothered about public opinion he would have gone at Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKing521 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 I think too much needs to be done for us to achieve promotion next season. We're serial losers and don't have the minerals for a successful playoff campaign. Finishing 1st is also a pipe dream. I think we have a few more seasons before we get it spot on and possibly win the league. From there we could quickly bounce through to League One and be in an incredibly healthy position. I highly doubt Unsworth will be at the wheel for any success we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 18 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: I'll counter that many expected a play-off finish, despite ignoring the fact that we were relegated in disarray with a squad ill-prepared for any success and psycologically unfit. I pretty much expected to be where we are this season and my expectations will adjust next season when a lot (not all) of the rot has been rectified. Yep - see this thread: Over 60% said promoted or playoffs, only 2 people predicted bottom half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 8 minutes ago, League one forever said: Nah, what ultimately matters is what the board think, they are the decision makers. If they bothered about public opinion he would have gone at Christmas. They, rightly, ignored the hysteria then. That isn't going to be an option moving forward as any manager who takes the job will be expected to get promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFCLongsuffeting Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 3 hours ago, nzlatic said: You don’t create a successful business over decades by giving under performing staff a free rein. Nor do you do it by making quick fire emotion-based decisions. I can see the logic in the board’s approach - this season being one of consolidation, putting processes and infrastructure in place and overhauling the squad. With the expectation that next season is very different in terms of results off the back of this. That’s what I think their plan is. I may be wrong. But I think it’s far more likely than there being zero demands or expectations placed on Unsworth for the duration of his contract. which is what everyone bar Barry Owen, Pete “Mike Haliwell” G, Kev Birkett and a select few here who seem to have forgotten the last 30 odd years also believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlion Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 9 minutes ago, League one forever said: Nah, what ultimately matters is what the board think, they are the decision makers. If they bothered about public opinion he would have gone at Christmas. Yes but if public opinion was demonstrating down Sheepfoot Lane with Unsworth Out banners and boycotting matches that would matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.