whittles left foot Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 30 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Although that isn't what I said - as you know - I'd rather that than say something that left the players feeling that finishing mid table or avoiding relegation was acceptable or an achievement. Is this ground breaking stuff I'm talking about here or something? I thought it was all old hat? Yeah I understand this. It is one of the things that frustrates me when folks post about Sheridan being such a good manager for us because he kept us up. MOST of the managers in any league keep their team up-it is not an achievement-winning something IS. But you are probably right when you say it is all old hat. This week Pep said City are not good enough to win the Champs League-this is a team a country mile in front of the rest of the Premiership but he still talks expectations down-it seems to be the modern managerial approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 We all can be critical of individuals out on the field of play - and I have done so on occasions. But from time to time I revisit the words below to remind myself to maintain a sense of perspective. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming” Theodore Roosevelt The Man in the Arena. Makes you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kusunga_Is_God Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 There would be many on here delighted with a 17th place finish and then would go on to cite Stockport as their reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 43 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Bollocks. Such psychology is essential in any walk of life where targets - whether they be goals, points, sales figures - need to be hit. Whatever our level of investment or squad depth makes par for the course Bunn, Rhodes, Abdallah should have everyone aiming to overachieve and it should be clear that anything lower than 7th is unacceptable, it's a pre-requisite not an achievement. If a big side comes down with a budget that means they should piss their league anything less will be unacceptable, it'll be treated as a given and the target will instead be, eg a record points haul... How can you say that's pie in the sky? Ok. I’m sure being told ‘anything less than 7th is unacceptable’ is really driving them on. By your logic, 80% of clubs are underachieving because despite the the massive disparity in budgets, there not hitting their prerequisite - 6th or better. keep fighting the good fight Harry. Maybe you could do a pep talk for the lads on sat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Unacceptable is the worst phrase in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, League one forever said: Ok. I’m sure being told ‘anything less than 7th is unacceptable’ is really driving them on. By your logic, 80% of clubs are underachieving because despite the the massive disparity in budgets, there not hitting their prerequisite - 6th or better. keep fighting the good fight Harry. Maybe you could do a pep talk for the lads on sat? Budgets don't matter apparently, you see loads of clubs slashing as we did and winning promotion the next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Players aren't daft, doubt many of them will be looking around the changing room thinking this is a promotion team in waiting. How do they know? The general noises coming out of the management and players (if Iversen’s interview before the Port Vale game is anything to go by..) is that they haven’t got a clue what’s needed in this division and if the players don’t believe they can win promotion, Bunn should be installing that into them.. A footballer should play to win every game. Anything less could result in them not giving 100% one week, because they won the week before.. Edited October 25, 2018 by JoeP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, JoeP said: How do they know? The general noises coming out of the management and players (if Iversen’s interview before the Port Vale game is anything to go by..) is that they haven’t got a clue what’s needed in this division and if the players don’t believe they can win promotion, Bunn should be installing that into them.. A footballer should play to win every game. Anything less could result in them not giving 100% one week, because they won the week before.. Why would he know what it takes? He's essentially an over promoted youth coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Why would he know what it takes? He's essentially an over promoted youth coach. That may be, but as manager he should be doing his research on the opposition and motivating the players.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, whittles left foot said: I care not one jot who is the bigger club in any division. Your judgement of size is relevant only to your opinion and what does it matter anyway? The fact is in the eyes of football in general we are now a minnow in the water and will continue to be until we achieve something of note again. No my judgement of size is based on fact. We've the highest ever league position of anyone in League 2. We've been in the top flight most recently than anyone in League 2 (I'm discounting Franchise). Swindon's best ever league position is 22nd in the Premier League, we came 21st that season. We have the highest end of season league position in the last 12 months of anyone in League 2. Yes in the scheme of things in England we are a small club. But that wasn't the topic it was how big of a club we are in this league. Having done the research I've come to the conclusion that we are the biggest club in the division based on best league and Cup performances*. The record books don't take into account finances. *I'll accept the argument that Bury's FA cup wins makes the case for them. Swindon's League Cup win gives them a few points too. But our records in those competitions aren't shabby either. Being the biggest club in a division doesn't mean that winning that division, or even promotion, is guaranteed. We know this all too well from our years in League 1 with the likes of Nottingham Forest and Leeds. Every club should set out at the start of the season to win every competition they can, that's the nature of sport. Realistists know that a League 2 side is not going to win either the FA Cup or the League Cup, the same way for our last few seasons in League one, realists knew we weren't going to win the league, but often there has been one playoff side that was entirely unexpected (eg Shrewsbury last year). At the start of the season it wasn't wholly unrealistic for us to win the league, nor was it wholly unrealistic for us to be relegated. This is due to our pedigree on the pitch and the recognised chaos off the pitch. Our chaos off the pitch and the middling crowds doesn't stop us being the biggest club on the pitch in the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, whittles left foot said: This week Pep said City are not good enough to win the Champs League- No he didn’t! If you do this with stuff that’s right there typed on a message board or recorded in an interview I wouldn’t dare speak a word to you in the pub... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, lookersstandandy said: I do not accept that our current plight is the best we can hope for But the key difference is what we can hope for versus what we can expect and, extrapolating that further, what we can feel entitled to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, lookersstandandy said: Edited October 25, 2018 by Dave_Og Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, lookersstandandy said: Edited October 25, 2018 by Dave_Og Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: But the key difference is what we can hope for versus what we can expect and, extrapolating that further, what we can feel entitled to. I hope the custodian/owner of my football club can divise a Plan, the tenets of which can provide a foundation for us to be able to sustainably compete in the 2nd tier of English football again one day. I expect to be able to compete for a top 3 place [at the very worst Top 7] in Division 4. I feel I am entitled to have hope. Edited October 25, 2018 by lookersstandandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said: I hope the custodian/owner of my football club can divise a Plan, the tenets of which can provide a foundation for us to be able to sustainably compete in the 2nd tier of English football again one day. I expect to be able to compete for a top 3 place [at the very worst Top 7] in Division 4. I feel I am entitled to have hope. Yep. You're not in the category of those that feel entitled to have success; we must always retain hope - however faint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Kusunga_Is_God said: There would be many on here delighted with a 17th place finish and then would go on to cite Stockport as their reasoning. Who? Name them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archiecat Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 30 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said: I hope the custodian/owner of my football club can divise a Plan, the tenets of which can provide a foundation for us to be able to sustainably compete in the 2nd tier of English football again one day. I expect to be able to compete for a top 3 place [at the very worst Top 7] in Division 4. I feel I am entitled to have hope. Why did nobody mention a plan before? good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, rudemedic said: No my judgement of size is based on fact. We've the highest ever league position of anyone in League 2. We've been in the top flight most recently than anyone in League 2 (I'm discounting Franchise). Swindon's best ever league position is 22nd in the Premier League, we came 21st that season. We have the highest end of season league position in the last 12 months of anyone in League 2. Yes in the scheme of things in England we are a small club. But that wasn't the topic it was how big of a club we are in this league. Having done the research I've come to the conclusion that we are the biggest club in the division based on best league and Cup performances*. The record books don't take into account finances. *I'll accept the argument that Bury's FA cup wins makes the case for them. Swindon's League Cup win gives them a few points too. But our records in those competitions aren't shabby either. Being the biggest club in a division doesn't mean that winning that division, or even promotion, is guaranteed. We know this all too well from our years in League 1 with the likes of Nottingham Forest and Leeds. Every club should set out at the start of the season to win every competition they can, that's the nature of sport. Realistists know that a League 2 side is not going to win either the FA Cup or the League Cup, the same way for our last few seasons in League one, realists knew we weren't going to win the league, but often there has been one playoff side that was entirely unexpected (eg Shrewsbury last year). At the start of the season it wasn't wholly unrealistic for us to win the league, nor was it wholly unrealistic for us to be relegated. This is due to our pedigree on the pitch and the recognised chaos off the pitch. Our chaos off the pitch and the middling crowds doesn't stop us being the biggest club on the pitch in the division. Which EFL clubs with the largest current day support have never been in the Premier League? Edited October 25, 2018 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Which EFL clubs with the largest current day support have never been in the Premier League? Think Bristol City might win that one. Of those in the Championship only Bristol City, Brentford, Millwall and Rotherham have never been in the Premier League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Kusunga_Is_God said: There would be many on here delighted with a 17th place finish and then would go on to cite Stockport as their reasoning. Is there any chance that you could name them so they have a chance to respond? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 3 hours ago, HarryBosch said: No he didn’t! If you do this with stuff that’s right there typed on a message board or recorded in an interview I wouldn’t dare speak a word to you in the pub... Well I heard him on the radio say that this club(meaning City) were not yet ready o win the Champs League. Now if that doesn't fit your must talk the club up drivel then what does? Lets see you pick holes in this from the Telegraph. Quote “We'll put more efforts into winning this competition. I saw last season and this that in many circumstances as the club we are, still we are not ready to win it. That's what I feel. "That doesn't mean we are not going to try. To win this competition it's not enough just to have desire or wanting to win. You have to have many circumstances, have experience and still we don't have enough. Oh and I would be more than happy to pass on a conversation with you in the pub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFCinWolves Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 hours ago, deyres42 said: Players aren't daft, doubt many of them will be looking around the changing room thinking this is a promotion team in waiting. That's were a good manager comes in, getting them to believe they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 23 minutes ago, OAFCinWolves said: That's were a good manager comes in, getting them to believe they are We should try to get one of them then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Paul Hurst is available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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