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BPAS PODCAST: 18th Jan '21 Episode 18: Evans Above - Interview with the CEO


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32 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

So if we had last season's most frequently featured component of the defence the side would be better off? 

 

That would be Tom Hamer who played 37 games to David Wheater’s 34 games. 😉

 

 

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I have almost got to the end of this episode.   Thanks to Matt for all the brilliant work he does in bringing the podcast to us each week. It’s always entertaining, relevant and interesting

We need to move on from it, because it's dragged on for long enough, but it should be remembered how it's all unravelled (or is still unravelling).  On it's own it's probably an issue we can overlook

So I’ve listened Matt, and firstly I thought you came across really well. Thoughtful, balanced, and challenged when and where you could. Karl was more open and honest than I thought, (in part to your

5 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

 

That would be Tom Hamer who played 37 games to David Wheater’s 34 games. 😉

 

 

I'm rarely outdone for pedantry but I'll tip my hat to that one

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19 hours ago, PeteG said:

Lots to be honest, i thought it was very good. I found it refreshing there seems to be a plan which revolves around youth and the academy in particular. Also good that Karl feels he has a lot to offer on the North Stand situation. The Wheater situation is no clearer unfortunately but it seems there is issues around fitness but what was clear is he isn't in the plans so maybe it's time to move on from that. Also good to get an understanding of the difficulties the club faces on a daily basis coping with Covid and a nice bit of transparency regarding the finances etc. All the whole i found it a really good listen.

Not sure how the CEO giving an interview where he says 'its not really my job' and 'the academy has been left to drift' and 'the owner hasnt got the skill set to run an academy' cones out of your device, down your earlobes and your brain hears that 'the club now has a plan in place for the academy.'

Bonkers.

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13 hours ago, nzlatic said:

Interesting thing came out of the bit where he talked about Barry.  Karl said they'd had crossed words and implied it was just because he stands up to Barry and tells him when he thinks he's in the wrong.  All good.  But he then went on to say that more timid people in his role previously had just gone along with Barry "and when it's maybe gone wrong, they've had to take the stick themselves unfairly".

 

The last bit is a direct quote, and I don't think I've got the inference of the rest of it wrong.  It's pretty staggering.  That Barry would insist on a course of action, that then proved to be wrong/damaging, and others would have to take the stick for it.

 

 

That's jus Barry tho. After l had had a couple of them 😳😳😳 moments about Barry l realised it was best to kind of zoom out on anything Barry related, transfer that staggered feeling to a kind of coverall of the fact he is at the club and find a way to just laugh at him. Its the only way to cope.

The guy is an absolute Blunderbuss.

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13 hours ago, Gerrywasagenius said:

 

Isn't this Barry to a tee though? Must be heard above everyone else's voice but then happy to pin the blame on others if it goes wrong.

I've no idea as I don't know him personally.  But it's appalling behaviour from someone in a senior position at the club.  

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2 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

Surely everyone acknowledges that this season's attack is an upgrade on last season's? 

 

And that this season's defence is a downgrade on last season's? 

 

So if we had last season's most frequently featured component of the defence the side would be better off? 

We had the second worst defensive record in the division last season. Conceding 57. DW Played in 34 of 37 league games. This season we have the worst defensive record in the division. So DW’s inclusion means we’ll go from worst to second worst defence. . all while he is top earner. . don’t know about you Dave, but I want more of a contribution from someone of his ilk than that. 
 

The attack last season featured Vera, segbe, and Wilson. We then signed Rowe in Jan, and Dearnley and Mac in the summer. The attack is an upgrade because quite simply it’s completely different (and better) players. 

 

Comparing the two is moot. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, andy_b_100 said:

Matt ........ I've now listened to pretty much all of them ..... great job ... good questions and nothing silly in the content. 

 

Cheers Andy. We're working hard on keeping the momentum going. Keep your eyes peeled for future guests & episodes.

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31 minutes ago, League one forever said:

We had the second worst defensive record in the division last season. Conceding 57. DW Played in 34 of 37 league games. This season we have the worst defensive record in the division. So DW’s inclusion means we’ll go from worst to second worst defence. . all while he is top earner. . don’t know about you Dave, but I want more of a contribution from someone of his ilk than that. 
 

The attack last season featured Vera, segbe, and Wilson. We then signed Rowe in Jan, and Dearnley and Mac in the summer. The attack is an upgrade because quite simply it’s completely different (and better) players. 

 

Comparing the two is moot. 

 

 

 

The on pitch merits of DW isnt going anywhere as a debate. However, given the relative inexperience of our squad, to have a situation where a player with the experience (and presumably professionalism) of DW is frozen out seems, at best, a real shame. At worst it is damaging to our ability to compete in this league. That’s the spectrum and I am sure the vast majority of fans sit between these too

extremes. I would have thought our team could benefit from his presence in and around the squad, whether he plays every week or not.
 

But what do I know? Well I don’t trust our owners so I am far from convinced that their freezing out of DW has been done on reasonable grounds and for the benefit of the club. 
 

The over riding point is that it concerns me (and I think a good number of fans as well) that it keeps happening. When you add up the players that have been frozen out in a similar manner, the willingness on the part of the owner to keep doing this can only be holding us back as a team.     
 

 

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Isn't the simple fact that yes our team may be better with DW (if fit and bothered) would be better. However, when people have lost or are losing jobs, furloughed or taking pay cuts during Covid, one has to question what any owner of a business should do with their "leader" the highest earner, when they refuse to join everyone else and their team mates on helping the club survive. He need sot get a taste of real life out there at the moment?

 

At my firm, taking that stance wouldn't only get one "frozen out". Poor old DW, sitting there on his pay package, training with the youths. I've not got much sympathy tbh. His agent should move him on asap.

 

Rant over!

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2 minutes ago, Chaddy14 said:

Isn't the simple fact that yes our team may be better with DW (if fit and bothered) would be better. However, when people have lost or are losing jobs, furloughed or taking pay cuts during Covid, one has to question what any owner of a business should do with their "leader" the highest earner, when they refuse to join everyone else and their team mates on helping the club survive. He need sot get a taste of real life out there at the moment?

 

At my firm, taking that stance wouldn't only get one "frozen out". Poor old DW, sitting there on his pay package, training with the youths. I've not got much sympathy tbh. His agent should move him on asap.

 

Rant over!

If that’s the reason he is frozen out then I think that’s fair enough. Wasn’t mentioned by Karl though 

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1 hour ago, League one forever said:

We had the second worst defensive record in the division last season. Conceding 57. DW Played in 34 of 37 league games. This season we have the worst defensive record in the division. So DW’s inclusion means we’ll go from worst to second worst defence. . all while he is top earner. . don’t know about you Dave, but I want more of a contribution from someone of his ilk than that. 
 

The attack last season featured Vera, segbe, and Wilson. We then signed Rowe in Jan, and Dearnley and Mac in the summer. The attack is an upgrade because quite simply it’s completely different (and better) players. 

 

Comparing the two is moot. 

 

 

 

Yes I'd want more but he's our top earner whether he's playing or not as far as we know

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10 minutes ago, Andy b said:

The on pitch merits of DW isnt going anywhere as a debate. However, given the relative inexperience of our squad, to have a situation where a player with the experience (and presumably professionalism) of DW is frozen out seems, at best, a real shame. At worst it is damaging to our ability to compete in this league. That’s the spectrum and I am sure the vast majority of fans sit between these too

extremes. I would have thought our team could benefit from his presence in and around the squad, whether he plays every week or not.
 

But what do I know? Well I don’t trust our owners so I am far from convinced that their freezing out of DW has been done on reasonable grounds and for the benefit of the club. 
 

The over riding point is that it concerns me (and I think a good number of fans as well) that it keeps happening. When you add up the players that have been frozen out in a similar manner, the willingness on the part of the owner to keep doing this can only be holding us back as a team.     
 

 

How can his on pitch merits not be part of the debate Andy?? 

 

Because you then go on to say it’s a real a shame that someone of his experience isn’t involved. Well, I presume you mean his experience as a player? Because he’s not being paid to just have around the place. His experience last season was a real let down, because someone of ilk/experience should and could have contributed more than the second worst defensive record IMO. Part of the debate is about getting him back in the side, and all I’m saying is the stats from last season don’t back that argument up. 
 

That doesn’t mean I don’t see or agree about the general malaise at the club, and that players being frozen out on semi consistent basis just doesn’t look good. 
 

 

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9 minutes ago, Chaddy14 said:

Isn't the simple fact that yes our team may be better with DW (if fit and bothered) would be better. However, when people have lost or are losing jobs, furloughed or taking pay cuts during Covid, one has to question what any owner of a business should do with their "leader" the highest earner, when they refuse to join everyone else and their team mates on helping the club survive. He need sot get a taste of real life out there at the moment?

 

At my firm, taking that stance wouldn't only get one "frozen out". Poor old DW, sitting there on his pay package, training with the youths. I've not got much sympathy tbh. His agent should move him on asap.

 

Rant over!

Hasn't Wheater come out previously and said that he accepted furlough? And the club said in their "heavy dog" statement that all financial issues with Wheater had been resolved...

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2 minutes ago, League one forever said:

How can his on pitch merits not be part of the debate Andy?? 

 

Because you then go on to say it’s a real a shame that someone of his experience isn’t involved. Well, I presume you mean his experience as a player? Because he’s not being paid to just have around the place. His experience last season was a real let down, because someone of ilk/experience should and could have contributed more than the second worst defensive record IMO. Part of the debate is about getting him back in the side, and all I’m saying is the stats from last season don’t back that argument up. 
 

That doesn’t mean I don’t see or agree about the general malaise at the club, and that players being frozen out on semi consistent basis just doesn’t look good. 
 

 

Praise indeed 

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2 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott2 said:

Hasn't Wheater come out previously and said that he accepted furlough? And the club said in their "heavy dog" statement that all financial issues with Wheater had been resolved...

That’s my understanding, but I think the continued fall out/stand off still stems from that. Despite it being ‘resolved’ 

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3 hours ago, Monty Burns said:

That's jus Barry tho. After l had had a couple of them 😳😳😳 moments about Barry l realised it was best to kind of zoom out on anything Barry related, transfer that staggered feeling to a kind of coverall of the fact he is at the club and find a way to just laugh at him. Its the only way to cope.

The guy is an absolute Blunderbuss.


Was watching GMP’s interim Chief Cock up last night on Granada Reports and there must be something in the training as his tone was Barry all over 

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8 hours ago, Lee Sinnott2 said:

There is little doubt for me that a defence that features Kyle Jameson, Carl Piergianni and Raphael Diarra would be massively strengthened by Wheater (even after 10 months without football). But, it has dragged on for far too long and would be in everyone's best interests if another league club took over his contract until the end of the season...

I agree totally. Wouldn’t that be easier to achieve if he could prove he was fit by playing.  After all, oldham is still paying for him, why not use him.

 

Is it just AL’s pride getting it the way of a place in the March day squad?

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3 hours ago, League one forever said:

We had the second worst defensive record in the division last season. Conceding 57. DW Played in 34 of 37 league games. This season we have the worst defensive record in the division. So DW’s inclusion means we’ll go from worst to second worst defence. . all while he is top earner. . don’t know about you Dave, but I want more of a contribution from someone of his ilk than that. 
 

The attack last season featured Vera, segbe, and Wilson. We then signed Rowe in Jan, and Dearnley and Mac in the summer. The attack is an upgrade because quite simply it’s completely different (and better) players. 

 

Comparing the two is moot. 

Stats are a funny thing.  I had a look at last season, and in the time Wheater was on the pitch and we had the same number of players as the opposition (ie discounting the period of the Mansfield game we were down to 9 men), we conceded 1.22 goals per game.  We conceded 1.11 when he played alongside Piergianni (for the bulk of the season he was alongside the likes of Iacovitti).  For the whole season we conceded over 1.5 goals per game.  That suggests he made a fairly decent contribution, especially when paired with another centre back.

 

But you're absolutely right that you can't actually properly compare the two things.  Nor can anyone prove exactly how much of a difference he would make. But surely we would all agree that in theory he should improve what we currently have?  Anyway, he's on the books, presumably being paid and probably earning more than anyone.  Yet he's not in the team, and the reasons given for that keep changing.  Meanwhile the team is crying out for leadership and experience.  The best outcome is for him to leave as it's pretty obvious the ownership don't want him playing and are willing to damage the team as a result.

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28 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Stats are a funny thing.  I had a look at last season, and in the time Wheater was on the pitch and we had the same number of players as the opposition (ie discounting the period of the Mansfield game we were down to 9 men), we conceded 1.22 goals per game.  We conceded 1.11 when he played alongside Piergianni (for the bulk of the season he was alongside the likes of Iacovitti).  For the whole season we conceded over 1.5 goals per game.  That suggests he made a fairly decent contribution, especially when paired with another centre back.

 

But you're absolutely right that you can't actually properly compare the two things.  Nor can anyone prove exactly how much of a difference he would make. But surely we would all agree that in theory he should improve what we currently have?  Anyway, he's on the books, presumably being paid and probably earning more than anyone.  Yet he's not in the team, and the reasons given for that keep changing.  Meanwhile the team is crying out for leadership and experience.  The best outcome is for him to leave as it's pretty obvious the ownership don't want him playing and are willing to damage the team as a result.

It is hard to extrapolate one players performance from team stats, I get that. One would need to do a deep dive on his personal stats to give a better understanding of his performances, but even then we all have a pair eyes that mitigate that depending on what you see. 
 

The experience thing is massive for me. I agree we are crying out for it, but do you think he would provide it? Does he organise and cajole, does he drag the defensive with him. A la Clarke? In the games I saw last season I didn’t see a leader, I saw a guy who was coasting. I’ve said this before, but I don’t think his heart was in the move in the first place. There is no doubt he’s had a great career, but we can’t judge him off what he was, we can only go off his performances whilst with us. And for what we thought we were buying - experience- leadership- nous. He’s been very disappointing IMO. 
 

Having said all that, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he plays well elsewhere. Sometimes moves just don’t work out. 

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35 minutes ago, League one forever said:

It is hard to extrapolate one players performance from team stats, I get that. One would need to do a deep dive on his personal stats to give a better understanding of his performances, but even then we all have a pair eyes that mitigate that depending on what you see. 
 

The experience thing is massive for me. I agree we are crying out for it, but do you think he would provide it? Does he organise and cajole, does he drag the defensive with him. A la Clarke? In the games I saw last season I didn’t see a leader, I saw a guy who was coasting. I’ve said this before, but I don’t think his heart was in the move in the first place. There is no doubt he’s had a great career, but we can’t judge him off what he was, we can only go off his performances whilst with us. And for what we thought we were buying - experience- leadership- nous. He’s been very disappointing IMO. 
 

Having said all that, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he plays well elsewhere. Sometimes moves just don’t work out. 

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying as it happens. I don’t think he made as big a splash as I was expecting. But I do think a large amount of blame for that should fall on those in charge - leaders need to get the best out of their employees. 
 

With that sort of playing CV he should have been a massive asset. 

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7 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying as it happens. I don’t think he made as big a splash as I was expecting. But I do think a large amount of blame for that should fall on those in charge - leaders need to get the best out of their employees. 
 

With that sort of playing CV he should have been a massive asset. 

Yeah, good point.

 

Did he feel he could impose himself around the place under ALMO, probably not. An there’s a good chance that translated to the pitch. 

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Listened to the full 2 hours with Karl. In brief my observations:

 

1) great podcast shining a light on critical issues and giving the club, supporters and groups an effective and well managed platform for debate.  Great means of feeding back to the club, as long as the quality on the guests is maintained at the current level. Beats social media shouting any day

 

2) Matt’s a great chair. Fair and balanced 

 

3) I can see that via various channels - the podcast, PTB and the Trust’s comms with the club (yes!) - the club is hearing some consistent messages from fans. For the large part i believe fans have started to reach a general consensus about the issues at the club that they perceive and, through these channels, have been able to articulate these issues on a consistent basis so the messages land. There may not be a consistent view on the solution (AL out at one end of the spectrum and a more pragmatic position at the other) but that’s perhaps another matter. 
 

However i think the increasingly common position fans are taking on what the issues are translates to a consistency in what the club is hearing from fans, especially now that more professional and formal routes for feeding back (PTB etc) exist. This is really important.

 

The absence of such a consensus (in defining the issues) and the absence of effective channels to communicate those issues to the club has been a real constraint to effective fan action in the  past - the corney regime being the best illustration of that where 50 per cent of the fan base didn’t even believe there were any issues. Corney was able to get away with stripping and managing the decline of the club as a result and was barely challenged. Our current owners aren’t smart enough to manage and manipulate our fans thankfully. 

 

4) I quite like Karl and have a lot of sympathy for the position he is in and what he has inherited. He’s on a hiding to nothing in many respects and I particular don’t envy him in trying to win over fans - and there are a large number of these - who will never offer any goodwill and just want to criticise. That’s a not uncommon trait of oldham fans. He is naive at times though and needs to understand the psyche of oldham fans and what damage nearly 30 years of decline has inflicted. He should set his expectations about what sort of response he gets accordingly. That said, he is within his rights to express disappointment that some of the good stuff falls on deaf ears. I think the criticism of the badge and kit stuff was a good example. He was clearly trying and didn’t do much wrong in the way he went about it in my view. Not sure why he got such a kick in for that to be honest.

 

Great work Matt 

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8 hours ago, Lee Sinnott2 said:

Hasn't Wheater come out previously and said that he accepted furlough? And the club said in their "heavy dog" statement that all financial issues with Wheater had been resolved...

Yeh he agreed, no reason not to really.  The issue was the ‘the top’ up part of it. He’s on like £3k a week i reckon and furlough tops out at £2.5k per month. That’s a drop of £9.5k per month, he won’t have accepted that. He’ll have wanted some top up money from the club which I’d say is understandable and this is the figure that was the issue. 

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